Obama Ends Stem Cell Research Ban (merged)

[TennTradition]

Of course it doesn't. There will be no "prohibits funding" happening my friend.

touche

 

[gsvol]

Executive Order 13435 is about "expanding stem cell research in ethically responsible ways." It includes a lot of words about how nascent life must be protected and how because embryonic stem cell research is not ethically responsible, we should pursue induced pluripotency.

I would say that it is a rather logical progression that if you are going to overturn Bush's ban on federally funded embryonic stem cell research, that you would overturn this EO as well. It was put in place to answer critics concerns that adult stem cells are not pluripotent while at the same time continuing the political point made by Bush in his ban concerning E. stem cell research.

The EO makes points that are in opposition to Obama's new policy, so why wouldn't he rescind it? Overturning the EO in no way prohibits funding of induced pluripotency by the NIH.

Again, adult stem cells can be manipulated to be pluripotent, plus they don't carry the extremely high risk of being tumor causing.

I think Obama is guilty of hypocrisy and politicizing the issue himself and even then he draws some nebulous moral line, just as Bush did, only without the clarity of thought.

 

[TennTradition]

Again, adult stem cells can be manipulated to be pluripotent, plus they don't carry the extremely high risk of being tumor causing.

I think Obama is guilty of hypocrisy and politicizing the issue himself and even then he draws some nebulous moral line, just as Bush did, only without the clarity of thought.

I was just explaining the logic of overturning it, as you asked about. I wasn't commenting on the value of induced pluripotent adult stem cells. I think that there is great value in this, if effective - as I said earlier (in the other thread...that is now part of this thread), ethics do matter, and ethical standards do vary from person to person.....this would seem to be a great way to satisfy more individuals ethical standards. I do not disagree with Obama's recension of either executive orders, though.

Obama did use this as an opportunity to make a political statement about how he wishes to treat science in his administration, which is a political move (as he said in his inauguration...elevating science to its "rightful place").

 

[gsvol]

I was just explaining the logic of overturning it, as you asked about. I wasn't commenting on the value of induced pluripotent adult stem cells. I think that there is great value in this, if effective - as I said earlier (in the other thread...that is now part of this thread), ethics do matter, and ethical standards do vary from person to person.....this would seem to be a great way to satisfy more individuals ethical standards. I do not disagree with Obama's recension of either executive orders, though.

Obama did use this as an opportunity to make a political statement about how he wishes to treat science in his administration, which is a political move (as he said in his inauguration...elevating science to its "rightful place").

Either George Will is not being truthful or I just misunderstood the whole issue.

"Growth supposedly will cut the deficit in half -- growth and the $1.6 trillion 'saved' by first assuming, and then 'canceling,' a 10-year continuation of the surge in Iraq.

Why, one wonders, not 'save' $5 trillion by proposing to spend that amount to cover the moon with yogurt, and then canceling the proposal?"
--columnist George Will

Regardless of our discussions, progressives will continue to consider Obama's move an enlightened advancement for science and people like me will continue to consider it just one more stupid assed waste of time and money and perhaps a deception of progressive sheeple with lots of media spin.

Examples:

"If it's obvious that we're not taking embryos that can -- that under any conceivable scenario would be used for a process that would allow them to be fertilized and become little babies, and I think if it's obvious that we're not talking about some science fiction cloning of human beings, then I think the American people will support this." --Bill Clinton, completely missing the fact that an embryo is a fertilized egg and a baby.

"Everybody's looking to take Barack Obama's measure, and he's got to not only be a popular president, but a powerful one and make his will fact in Washington. He really hasn't done that in the details yet."
--Newsweek's Howard Fineman

"Liberals still have plenty of work to do, and if they want to be a governing majority for the foreseeable future, relabeling themselves as progressives is part of the task."
--Newsweek's Eleanor Clift

My suggestion is why not just skip the 'progressive' label and go directly to calling themselves 'socialists?'

I mean, wouldn't that be more progressive??

You've got to learn to read the fine print Tenntrad, when Obambi talked about elevating science he was talking pseudo political, economic and social sciences.

 

[IPorange]

I don't think it is communist of me to not consider an embryo a baby, anymore than I consider chicken eggs the same as a chicks. I am not intentionally trying to steer this thread into the "where is the line" discussion, but I just thought that was a heck of a jump.

 

[gsvol]

I don't think it is communist of me to not consider an embryo a baby, anymore than I consider chicken eggs the same as a chicks. I am not intentionally trying to steer this thread into the "where is the line" discussion, but I just thought that was a heck of a jump.

Progressive chickens are all belong to the people, same as eggs and baby chicks.

We're really frogging along here, you jumped from progressive to communist, Chairman Mao would be proud of you comrade.

So would chairman Barry!!

Since you brought it up, when do you think that an embryo becomes a baby??

Come to think of it, Hank Williams might be proud of you too, since he said some lawyer proved he was only hatched.

 

[IPorange]

How am I a communist? Or even a progressive? Please, explain.

 

[gsvol]

How am I a communist? Or even a progressive? Please, explain.

I've never called you a communist, did someone call you a communist?

And the Lord only knows how much I don't consider you progressive.

 

[IPorange]

I suppose you didn't "call" me a communist, but it seems implied when you say I jumped from progressive to communist.

As far as not considering me progressive in the other sense, I certainly wouldn't expect you to compliment anyone who didn't fall in lock-step with your view of things. Funny, sounds awful communist.

 

[gsvol]

I suppose you didn't "call" me a communist, but it seems implied when you say I jumped from progressive to communist.

Actually only a slight misunderstanding between the two of us.

I only meant you went from the use of the word 'progressive' to the use of the word 'communist' in one easy step, nothing personal intended about you at all.

As far as not considering me progressive in the other sense, I certainly wouldn't expect you to compliment anyone who didn't fall in lock-step with your view of things. Funny, sounds awful communist.

You are fairly open minded but I sense you harbor some misconceptions that influence your thinking.

Bottom line, you couldn't be farther from the truth concerning me, just in case you are really interested in the truth about me.

 

[gsvol]

Obama pointedly left open the creation of cloned -- and noncloned sperm-and-egg-derived -- human embryos solely for the purpose of dismemberment and use for parts.

Dr. James Thomson, the discoverer of embryonic stem cells, said "if human embryonic stem cell research does not make you at least a little bit uncomfortable, you have not thought about it enough."

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

Wow one of my threads has (merged) I am honored

 

[gsvol]

Wow one of my threads has (merged) I am honored

By popular demand.

What kind of spin did the Post (aka Pravda) put on the topic???

I can't thing of the Post without thinking of battery operated gizmos and.................

 

[gsvol]

Overturning the EO in no way prohibits funding of induced pluripotency by the NIH.

That statement doesn't jibe with;

President Obama okays funding embryonic stem cell research
(but removes adult stem cell funding)


and Michael Reagan, who says;

Moreover, he killed another Bush presidential order that funded some of the most promising research on the creation of embryonic-like stem cells from harmless but potent adult stem cells.

What President Obama did when he rescinded President Bush's federal ban on certain lines of embryonic stem cell research ultimately could cost American lives.

This is where 72 different diseases are now being remedied or cured. (with adult stem cell technology)

There are no embryonic stem cells being used anywhere in the world on humans......................

Maybe you are right but these sources seem to indicate otherwise and furthermore, who makes what decisions as to who gets the funds to pursue any particular study??

If what you say is true and current studies aren't defunded out of hand, still some studies will cease or get less funds if money is to go into embryonic stem cell research or extra funds will have to be put in the budget to fund projects that were previously not funded by the taxpayers.

At least we can agree on my last statement, correct?

 

[TennTradition]

If what you say is true and current studies aren't defunded out of hand, still some studies will cease or get less funds if money is to go into embryonic stem cell research or extra funds will have to be put in the budget to fund projects that were previously not funded by the taxpayers.

At least we can agree on my last statement, correct?

So, I could be wrong on this GS because it is not something that I've had to work with before...but I'm pretty certain that overturning the EO does not stop money from going there. What it does do is remove the framework that was established where the HHS secretary had to develop a strategy for adult stem cell pluripotency research...but I think that all of that was really just a political move (and when I say political move, I don't mean to imply that it was a BAD thing...just political) to make sure that people knew Bush was not trying to stop all stem cell research. I don't think that it actually changed anything about the way NIH really awarded its money.

As for your quote, I pretty much agree with you. I would suggest that it doesn't have to happen because the embryonic funding could come from other, non-stem-cell related research...but while I think that will happen to some extent, you can also pretty much bet that some induced pluripotency research will not be funded when it otherwise would have been (without increasing overall budgets).

 

[gsvol]

So, I could be wrong on this GS because it is not something that I've had to work with before...but I'm pretty certain that overturning the EO does not stop money from going there. What it does do is remove the framework that was established where the HHS secretary had to develop a strategy for adult stem cell pluripotency research...but I think that all of that was really just a political move (and when I say political move, I don't mean to imply that it was a BAD thing...just political) to make sure that people knew Bush was not trying to stop all stem cell research. I don't think that it actually changed anything about the way NIH really awarded its money.

As for your quote, I pretty much agree with you. I would suggest that it doesn't have to happen because the embryonic funding could come from other, non-stem-cell related research...but while I think that will happen to some extent, you can also pretty much bet that some induced pluripotency research will not be funded when it otherwise would have been (without increasing overall budgets).

Well we may be on the same page here.

So we can say the Obama move was at least equally political in nature???

The adult stem cell pluripotency strategy does work, for the record.

Embryonic stem cell research won't come from private sources because of the inherent danger of tumors and the potential for law suits!!!!!!

 

[TennTradition]

Well we may be on the same page here.

So we can say the Obama move was at least equally political in nature???

The adult stem cell pluripotency strategy does work, for the record.

Embryonic stem cell research won't come from private sources because of the inherent danger of tumors and the potential for law suits!!!!!!

I worry about similar problems with tumors in induced pluripotent adult stem cells, though. I don't think that there is extensive clinical trial data for that - just research that shows induced pluripotency works to some extent (though like I said, not my area, so I could be wrong...do you know of any clinical trials?). That's a problem they'll have to figure out with pluripotent cells...they can grow into anything given the proper growth factors...unfortunately, that includes tumors.

As for political motivations...there was both policy and politics involved. I think that overturning the ban on funding of ES cells was really a matter of policy, with a little bit of a political jab at the previous administration. Timing the overturning of the ES cell funding ban with the release of the administrations policy on science and scientific research - that was pure politics.

I would also add that Bush's decision to ban funding was equally a matter of policy...the politics came in with the EO to "fund" induced pluripotency...it was already being looked at and funded...but this provided political cover for the funding ban of ES cells (again, not a bad thing).

I might be drawing some sort of odd and non-existent distinction between politics and policy in these matters....but that's how I see it tonight, at least .

 

[vader]

Now I am officially on board with stem cell research...

Stem Cell Therapy Offers Breast Enlargement

 

[rjd970]

Now I am officially on board with stem cell research...

Stem Cell Therapy Offers Breast Enlargement

I knew sooner or later some application would come along we could all agree would make it worthwhile.

 

[ttrogvol]

anyone else think stem cell research is never going to amount to anything of substance?

There are actually numerous studies and experiments where stem cells are being used in a very effective way to treat cancer. Not sure exactly how it all works, but it seems as if stem cells may be the future of cancer treatment.