Obama Gives Himself "A solid B+"

#26
#26
nickknx865 said:
1) No, I don't want terrorists having the same rights as I do. But to send them in exile somewhere that's not even on American soil, and the jurisdiction is kind of funky, is, well, not the best way to do things in my opinion. Build a Gitmo like facility somewhere else. Alaska's pretty damn isolated; build a new Gitmo facility there.

2) Ok, about the healthcare deal. It's a great thing if you have it(which I do, thankfully), but if you can't afford it, the system looks at you and says, "Tough cookies". Yes, you can go to an ER. However, you will most likely end up going broke if you don't have health insurance.
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1) Yes, Alaska is remote, but moving them there is no different than moving them to Illinois or Michigan.

2) No one denies that there are problems, however, the government is not the end-all-be-all solution. It can do some good through regulations, tax credits and subsidies, but a wholesale takeover of nearly 20% of the US economy is madness.
 
#27
#27
nickknx865 said:
1) No, I don't want terrorists having the same rights as I do. But to send them in exile somewhere that's not even on American soil, and the jurisdiction is kind of funky, is, well, not the best way to do things in my opinion. Build a Gitmo like facility somewhere else. Alaska's pretty damn isolated; build a new Gitmo facility there.

2) Ok, about the healthcare deal. It's a great thing if you have it(which I do, thankfully), but if you can't afford it, the system looks at you and says, "Tough cookies". Yes, you can go to an ER. However, you will most likely end up going broke if you don't have health insurance.
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That's fair criticism in my eyes, the problem I ahve with the approach that is being proposed is that we are taking action when we don't really understand the problem, perhaps the government does but they have not told the people. All we hear is it's broken we need to fix it, it seems to me we need to know why it is broken, what are the factors that make it so expensive?

I am sick of hearing about the insurance companies gouging, the profit margins simply do not back up this conclusion. Find out what the problems are and address those, the last thing we need is a government that has a horrible track record in these endeavors making it worse, not to mention the problems with freedoms and liberties it creates. There are just too many valid concerns for me to sign on.

I do agree that something needs to be done with health care insurance, until I know the problems and factors involved I cannot possibly make an informed decision on what action should be taken, JMO.
 
#28
#28
MG1968 said:
1) Yes, Alaska is remote, but moving them there is no different than moving them to Illinois or Michigan.

2) No one denies that there are problems, however, the government is not the end-all-be-all solution. It can do some good through regulations, tax credits and subsidies, but a wholesale takeover of nearly 20% of the US economy is madness.
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1) Ehh. The only other things I can really think of is to send them off to some other country and have them tried there, or build a facility on some US territory that isn't officially a state. I don't know what the legality of that would be, so I really don't know if either is possible.

2) While I do agree that taking over a fifth of the economy is crazy, and I do agree that government isn't the solution for everything(cue an OE post, right about here), you've got to force something. Anything. I'm not that picky as of right now when it comes to health reform. Much to most people's surprise here, I'm really not in favor of a public option. I just think that something has to be done.
 
#29
#29
droski said:
really shows what kind of delusional bubble this guy lives in. kind of scary really. must be surrounded by a bunch of yes men telling him everyone thinks he's great except those 'wackjobs.'
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That's quite enough bashing of former President Bush, thank you. And it wasn't yes men around Bush all the time. It was simply that he happened to always be right.
 
#31
#31
i completely agree bush and obama are both horrible presidents surounding themselves with yes men. nice to see we agree on something.
 
#32
#32
633773031044732255-vomit.jpg
 
#33
#33
KB5252 said:
That's fair criticism in my eyes, the problem I ahve with the approach that is being proposed is that we are taking action when we don't really understand the problem, perhaps the government does but they have not told the people. All we hear is it's broken we need to fix it, it seems to me we need to know why it is broken, what are the factors that make it so expensive?
I am sick of hearing about the insurance companies gouging, the profit margins simply do not back up this conclusion. Find out what the problems are and address those, the last thing we need is a government that has a horrible track record in these endeavors making it worse, not to mention the problems with freedoms and liberties it creates. There are just too many valid concerns for me to sign on.

I do agree that something needs to be done with health care insurance, until I know the problems and factors involved I cannot possibly make an informed decision on what action should be taken, JMO.
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My guess would be too many smokers, more people eating fast food and less healthy options. People don't exercise like they should and then you already have the uninsured running up the bill on everyone else. People are living beyond their means which creates even more stress and less free time to relax and exercise.

I think insurance companies would lower cost if they focused on getting people to live healthier. Improve discounts to fitness gyms, offer free or reduced prices on quit-smoking medicine. The government could do a better job of making sure that nutrition labels are clear and that restaruants do a better job of providing nutritional info on their menu.
 
#34
#34
615 Vol said:
My guess would be too many smokers, more people eating fast food and less healthy options. People don't exercise like they should and then you already have the uninsured running up the bill on everyone else. People are living beyond their means which creates even more stress and less free time to relax and exercise.

I think insurance companies would lower cost if they focused on getting people to live healthier. Improve discounts to fitness gyms, offer free or reduced prices on quit-smoking medicine. The government could do a better job of making sure that nutrition labels are clear and that restaruants do a better job of providing nutritional info on their menu.
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I would LOVE to see a really good discount for "low risk" groups. I realize there's some of this going on now but I mean a BIG one. I like where your heart's at with what you have above but there's too many treadmills used to hang clothes out there if you know what I mean. Without incentive the kind of people you refer to aren't going to change their lifestyles, especially if somebody else is supposed to be footing the bill for their medical care.
 
#37
#37
hndog609 said:
I would LOVE to see a really good discount for "low risk" groups. I realize there's some of this going on now but I mean a BIG one. I like where your heart's at with what you have above but there's too many treadmills used to hang clothes out there if you know what I mean. Without incentive the kind of people you refer to aren't going to change their lifestyles, especially if somebody else is supposed to be footing the bill for their medical care.
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That is available. It's called self insurance. If that's too risky for you then get a policy that doesn't pay after a $5 co-pay and use insurance like it should be used......high deductible to stop a catastrophic loss.
 
#40
#40
He suffers from a serious case of hysteria if he thinks he deserves a B+... Oh wait a min we have already came to that conclusion.
 
#41
#41
As far as healthcare goes, I would be fine with no public option and a set of standard private plans people can choose from so people can join large groups and buy insurance at lower cost. Something like that could work with government regulation on if/how coverage is dropped and no penalty for pre-existing conditions. It would be nice to see government subsidized incentives for healthy behavior too.

One of the provisions being tossed around (that may not happen now) is lowering the medicare elgibility from 65 to 55. Although I don't agree with that under any circumtances, I could stomach it if costs in other areas are controlled. Any way you cut it though, it is still increasing government control in an already screwed up market.
 
#42
#42
rjd970 said:
As far as healthcare goes, I would be fine with no public option and a set of standard private plans people can choose from so people can join large groups and buy insurance at lower cost. Something like that could work with government regulation on if/how coverage is dropped and no penalty for pre-existing conditions. It would be nice to see government subsidized incentives for healthy behavior too.

One of the provisions being tossed around (that may not happen now) is lowering the medicare elgibility from 65 to 55. Although I don't agree with that under any circumtances, I could stomach it if costs in other areas are controlled. Any way you cut it though, it is still increasing government control in an already screwed up market.
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Getting rid of the public option makes this a worthy endeavor. This thing just do away with the silly antitrust exclusion that the med insurers enjoy. Force legit competition and find a reasonable pool scenario for the currently medically uninsurable. I'll give Obama credit, even though he has nothing to do with it and will absolutely loathe the outcome.
 
#43
#43
I would like to see:
The end of employer supplied insurance, we need to have personal insurance that we own on ourselves.
And the insurance we have on ourselves is only for catastrophic medical issues. We pay out of pocket for random office visits and minor medical problems.
High deductibles, like $5000. But we have HSAs that are tax deductible.
And tort reform.
 
#44
#44
Employer provided programs will die over time and people will transition to catastrophic policies while paying routine stuff out of pocket. Policies will transition massively and providers will become more competitive on the routine crap. Walk in style clinics will become more prevalent.
 
#45
#45
volfanjustin said:
I would like to see:
The end of employer supplied insurance, we need to have personal insurance that we own on ourselves.
And the insurance we have on ourselves is only for catastrophic medical issues. We pay out of pocket for random office visits and minor medical problems.
High deductibles, like $5000. But we have HSAs that are tax deductible.
And tort reform.
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I wouldn't. I work for a large company, pay a reduced premium every month because it is a large pool, and pay into a flexible spending account to cover deductibles. I enjoy going into a doctor office and only paying a $15 dollar copay for everything from a sinus infection to a broken arm for me and my family....and I am not getting a free ride, I pay to be able to do that, stemming from the fact that I am part of a large pool paying into the same plan. This type of private-based model could work a national level as long as everybody pays into into the pool based on their needs.

I couldn't afford a policy to be able to do that with an individual plan. Under the current market, the premium for that type of plan would be ridiculous and coverage would be far from guaranteed.

The silver bullet here is joining large pools of people to leverage bargaining power with private plans. Government run plans are crap, and personal private plans are crap IMO. One has the government dictating coverage, the other has insurance companies dictating coverage...and the individual can say little about it.
 
#48
#48
rjd970 said:
I wouldn't. I work for a large company, pay a reduced premium every month because it is a large pool, and pay into a flexible spending account to cover deductibles. I enjoy going into a doctor office and only paying a $15 dollar copay for everything from a sinus infection to a broken arm for me and my family....and I am not getting a free ride, I pay to be able to do that, stemming from the fact that I am part of a large pool paying into the same plan. This type of private-based model could work a national level as long as everybody pays into into the pool based on their needs.

I couldn't afford a policy to be able to do that with an individual plan. Under the current market, the premium for that type of plan would be ridiculous and coverage would be far from guaranteed.

The silver bullet here is joining large pools of people to leverage bargaining power with private plans. Government run plans are crap, and personal private plans are crap IMO. One has the government dictating coverage, the other has insurance companies dictating coverage...and the individual can say little about it.
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You are not getting a completely free ride but pretty close to it, you pay your weekly premium and a cheap co-pay and you any everyone else can run to the doctor every day if you wanted with no consequences. People would be much more responsible if they had to pay out of pocket, competition would be much better thus prices for healthcare would decrease.

Insurance companies would not be dictating coverage, they would only be forced to cover major medical issues.

And if we got away from employer based coverage my belief is that employees would see a pay increase due to their employer no longer having to pay out everyone's healthcare costs.
 
#49
#49
volfanjustin said:
You are not getting a completely free ride but pretty close to it, you pay your weekly premium and a cheap co-pay and you any everyone else can run to the doctor every day if you wanted with no consequences. People would be much more responsible if they had to pay out of pocket, competition would be much better thus prices for healthcare would decrease.

Insurance companies would not be dictating coverage, they would only be forced to cover major medical issues.

And if we got away from employer based coverage my belief is that employees would see a pay increase due to their employer no longer having to pay out everyone's healthcare costs.
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It is not a free ride, it is a benefit of economies of scale that I pay into. Just like with anything else, my insurance benefits factored into what job I took. And you're last two points are BS.

It is a pipe dream to think insurance companies won't drop coverage on a whim once the medical costs get too high, and on a personal plan, how is the individual supposed to fight it? Insurance companies are losing a single premium payment. Put 10,000 people on the same plan paying the same premium and they won't risk it. This happens everyday, and I don't trust corporations to do what's best for me anymore than I trust the government to. There will inevitably be complex loopholes and fine print the average non-lawyer person can't spot on any contract they sign for coverage.

And the employer isn't paying out all the healthcare costs...I have my own plan to choose from the ones they offer....everybody pays their own premium and myself and the company benefit from that more than anything else.

I still think using this as a national model would work. I don't want Universal Healthcare....I want Universal Access. Getting everybody insured at reasonable, guaranteed prices will lower costs across the board.
 
#50
#50
rjd970 said:
I couldn't afford a policy to be able to do that with an individual plan. Under the current market, the premium for that type of plan would be ridiculous and coverage would be far from guaranteed.

The silver bullet here is joining large pools of people to leverage bargaining power with private plans. Government run plans are crap, and personal private plans are crap IMO. One has the government dictating coverage, the other has insurance companies dictating coverage...and the individual can say little about it.
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the problem is hte govt says if they feel the pricing isn't fair that the public option is still on the table. what is the chance they will think the pricing is fair?
 
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