Obama

#126
#126
if mccain was center enough to get elected, since hte country wants someone center, then why did they need to bring palin in to energize the base? or are you arguing rove et all are stupid since that would imply adding a conservative to the ticket would take away votes?
 
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#127
#127
Vol Doll said:
Electoral politics was one of my favorite areas of study so I'll be glad to explain it to you. I don't remember who said it, but they were spot on when they said Americans will vote center left or center right.
He won by such a large number because 1) Bush 2) Iraq 3) Lack of a good Republican alternative.

Agree with those and that order - anyone with a pulse could win. Obama promised change - he hasn't delivered one bit.

Think about it: why else was Palin brought in but to energize the base. That base, that shrinking, close minded base, is why Republicans are losing elections. Candidates haven't quite learned that America (and a lot of Republicans) don't follow that hard core line. It's a mystery to me. Maybe they'll figure it out before 2012.

The same is true of Dems. You said it above - Dems won because Bush was so bad. The base of Dems is as close-minded and hard core as the Rep base. No meaningful difference. Obama got the nod over Hillary in part because he was more liberal and promised more liberal policies. Unfortunately, he's delivering and the moderates are fleeing.

We tend to be a little insular here in East TN (I know not everyone is from here) and because it's SO red here it's hard for others to imagine the rest of the country isn't the same way, but it ISN'T. That doesn't mean anyone expects you to fall in line with what others believe, but stop kidding yourselves as to where this country stands. Look at map. The GOP is the party of the Deep South and until that changes, you won't win the White House for a long time.

If there is a half-way decent candidate, the GOP can win it in 2012.

Sorry to borrow a quote (I can't remember who it is): but the majority of Americans will take the calm black man over the crazy tea baggers any day.
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If Obama is the "calm black man" then I don't agree. Also, don't see the TP motivation as crazy in the least - it fits much better with your hero Reagan than with the calm black man
 
#128
#128
Vol Doll said:
Electoral politics was one of my favorite areas of study so I'll be glad to explain it to you. I don't remember who said it, but they were spot on when they said Americans will vote center left or center right.
He won by such a large number because 1) Bush 2) Iraq 3) Lack of a good Republican alternative.
Think about it: why else was Palin brought in but to energize the base. That base, that shrinking, close minded base, is why Republicans are losing elections. Candidates haven't quite learned that America (and a lot of Republicans) don't follow that hard core line. It's a mystery to me. Maybe they'll figure it out before 2012.

We tend to be a little insular here in East TN (I know not everyone is from here) and because it's SO red here it's hard for others to imagine the rest of the country isn't the same way, but it ISN'T. That doesn't mean anyone expects you to fall in line with what others believe, but stop kidding yourselves as to where this country stands. Look at map. The GOP is the party of the Deep South and until that changes, you won't win the White House for a long time.

Sorry to borrow a quote (I can't remember who it is): but the majority of Americans will take the calm black man over the crazy tea baggers any day.[/QUOTE]

Your reasons 1) Bush, you are right. 2) Iraq, you could not be more wrong, Bush turned Iraq around was not even in the news. 3) Lack of a Republican alternative, correct.
Palin was brought in because we conservatives can't stand McCain, he is a RINO at best and a lot of times a liberal.

You keep saying that the right won't elect a far right candidate, why can't we, you all elected a far left radical.

He won't be elected again, I guarantee it.
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#129
#129
In all actuality, had Bush not been so unpopular, McCain would have stood a more decent chance. The problem, was that they needed to get EVERY one out to vote and that meant the traditional "base." (Enter Palin stage right). Had the economic crisis not hit and McCain not been caught on tape with a poor choice of words, he could have won. THAT's who every one was voting for. A Palin Republican will NOT win.

The Republican party is fractured.
 
#130
#130
I expected to be outnumbered around here, but aren't there ANY liberals or converted Republicans around here??
 
#132
#132
Vol Doll said:
I expected to be outnumbered around here, but aren't there ANY liberals or converted Republicans around here??
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There are, about as many as there are the type of R you seem to be railing about.

Most posters in here as far as I can tell are fiscally conservative but socially moderate or left. Some are libertarian.
 
#133
#133
Thanks for the debate everyone, time to go be Mommy. Just try not to write too many hateful things about me while I'm gone - mama always told you it's not nice to beat up on chicks :)

And even though you all are a bunch of right wing nuts, you're TN fans so I guess there's *something* redeeming about you ;)
 
#134
#134
Vol Doll said:
In all actuality, had Bush not been so unpopular, McCain would have stood a more decent chance. The problem, was that they needed to get EVERY one out to vote and that meant the traditional "base." (Enter Palin stage right). Had the economic crisis not hit and McCain not been caught on tape with a poor choice of words, he could have won. THAT's who every one was voting for. A Palin Republican will NOT win.

The Republican party is fractured.
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True, McCain lost partially due to Bush being a fiscal liberal, but McCain has thumbed his nose at conservatives way too many times. He had to bring in Palin to get the base pumped, which she did.

The Republican party just has to be and is being reminded what they are supposed to stand for.
 
#135
#135
Vol Doll said:
I expected to be outnumbered around here, but aren't there ANY liberals or converted Republicans around here??
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I am a democrat. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative. These hardcore conservatives in the forum don't get it. A bible pushing, anti-abortion conservative will NEVER win a general election for POTUS. Reagan rolls over in his grave every time they try to claim him as one of their own. Reagan was closer to being a conservative democrat than a Christian conservative republican. Palin was chosen for one reason and one reason only: So more of the far right conservatives would get out and vote. There are a number of republicans I would consider voting for, but none are over in the far right spectrum of the GOP base
 
#136
#136
"A bible pushing, anti-abortion conservative will NEVER win a general election for POTUS. "

george bush jr would disagree with you. but i don't think many here are indicating that is what they want.
 
#137
#137
droski said:
"A bible pushing, anti-abortion conservative will NEVER win a general election for POTUS. "

george bush jr would disagree with you. but i don't think many here are indicating that is what they want.
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Who is George Bush Jr ? there is GHWB and GWB. :)
 
#138
#138
Vol Doll said:
Ronald Reagan mastered the art of talking like a conservative zealot and governing like a political moderate.
*he appointed pro-abortion supreme court justices, signed a permissive abortion bill into law in California, and never introduced an anti-abortion bill.
*the Economic Recovery Act + Tax Equity and Responsibility Act + Social Security Reform Act = the largest re-distribution of wealth this country has ever experienced.
*In his presidency he added 60,000 government workers. Clinton slashed 400,000.

The list could go on, but I ask you: when is the last time the Republican party elected someone LIKE him? They all like to act like they're Reagan Republicans so the donations will flow, but in practice, Ronald Reagan was nothing like today's conservatives who are leading the party.
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do some homework. Abortion is immaterial, his economic redistro was nothing compared to the enormous tax cuts in terms of allowing wealth in this country to find investments and make others wealthy. You've just bought into a lie regarding wealth redistro because you have no idea what the term wealth means.

Clinton's legacy of gov't cutting was gutting the military and intelligence services while growing the remainder. That's not gov't cutting - that's stupid. He would have done more stupid crap had congress not been reversed out because of his and Hillary's brash socialist views becoming apparent.

The list can't go on. It isn't a Rebublican issue, which is your continuing lie here. Pretending to be conservative while touting Obama and Clinton is as disingenuous as humanly possible. Another Ronald Reagan walks in the door and he'll find himself in a new office with work to do destroying the work of 20 years of pure vote buying. See, votebuying is the problem, period. We need to limit government and starting by ending it as a career opportunity is the first step.
 
#139
#139
Vol Doll said:
uhhh, yeah, and that's why Obama won by such a narrow margin. Take off the blinders.
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sound like former ms Republican. There is no such animal that would tout a flaming Euroliberal nobody like Obama as you have here. You're objectivity calling card has been revoked. You're a flaming liberal happy to see votebuying working for your clowns.
 
#140
#140
truefan said:
I am a democrat. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative. These hardcore conservatives in the forum don't get it.
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who are you talking about? how many times do posters here have to tell you they are fiscally conservative/socially moderate to liberal for you to stop this nonsense.

why must people insist on labeling others?
 
#141
#141
volinbham said:
who are you talking about? how many times do posters here have to tell you they are fiscally conservative/socially moderate to liberal for you to stop this nonsense.

why must people insist on labeling others?
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Yes. Few here care about the label. My question, how on earth does someone like that vote for Obama, who is fiscally Vegas, militarily Gandhi and socially uber liberal?
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#142
#142
BigPapaVol said:
Yes. Few here care about the label. My question, how on earth does someone like that vote for Obama, who is fiscally Vegas, militarily Gandhi and socially uber liberal?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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He and many others bought the bumper sticker slogans hook line and sinker and simply have too much emotionally invested to admit that it doesn't make much sense.
 
#143
#143
volinbham said:
who are you talking about? how many times do posters here have to tell you they are fiscally conservative/socially moderate to liberal for you to stop this nonsense.

why must people insist on labeling others?
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I said the hardcore conservatives of the forum. There are several, too. I didn't say all conservatives of the forum. Are you trying to tell me there are no hardcore conservatives here? I can name them for you if you desire
 
#144
#144
truefan said:
I said the hardcore conservatives of the forum. There are several, too. I didn't say all conservatives of the forum. Are you trying to tell me there are no hardcore conservatives here? I can name them for you if you desire
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they are here, but they number somewhere similar to the loonies on the left. Why didn't you single them out. Your views are anathema to them too.
 
#145
#145
KB5252 said:
He and many others bought the bumper sticker slogans hook line and sinker and simply have too much emotionally invested to admit that it doesn't make much sense.
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Yeah, that is what is was......are you kidding me???

So I voted for Obama. Do I think I made mistake by voting for him? I don't know yet. The jury is still out. We'll see. One thing I do know, the alternative was worse, at least in my eyes. Just so you know, it wasn't any bumper sticker that influenced me to vote for Obama.
 
#146
#146
truefan said:
Yeah, that is what is was......are you ******* kidding me???

So I voted for Obama. Do I think I made mistake by voting for him? I don't know yet. The jury is still out. We'll see. One thing I do know, the alternative was worse, at least in my eyes. Just so you know, it wasn't any bumper sticker that influenced me to vote for Obama.
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but there was no freaking way that he was anything but the least fiscally conservative candidate ever to grace a ticket and anti-military to boot, neither of which remotely fit with your purported views.
 
#147
#147
truefan said:
Yeah, that is what is was......are you kidding me???

So I voted for Obama. Do I think I made mistake by voting for him? I don't know yet. The jury is still out. We'll see. One thing I do know, the alternative was worse, at least in my eyes. Just so you know, it wasn't any bumper sticker that influenced me to vote for Obama.
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Fair enough, why exactly did you feel compelled to vote for him?

Why was the alternative worse in your view? I'm curious because in my view McCain would have been the candidate any centrist would have been much more comfortable with.
 
#149
#149
KB5252 said:
Fair enough, why exactly did you feel compelled to vote for him?
Why was the alternative worse in your view? I'm curious because in my view McCain would have been the candidate any centrist would have been much more comfortable with.
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I was torn up until about a week before the election. Then I made my choice. I liked Obama better than I did McCain. McCain's choice of a running mate didn't sit too well with me either.

It's not like we had quality choices and that is what is pathetic about it.
 
#150
#150
BigPapaVol said:
but there was no freaking way that he was anything but the least fiscally conservative candidate ever to grace a ticket and anti-military to boot, neither of which remotely fit with your purported views.
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I would argue with you about the anti-military label you have on him. We will agree to disagree on that one.

Hey, sometimes you have to go with your gut. I liked Obama better than McCain.
 
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