Offense issues

[Golfprovol]

Ha!
So, to make sure I understand your logic, if I screw up repeatedly and my boss doesn't correct my behavior...it is all on me??
Here in corporate world, this isn't anywhere near reality.

Yes, the players need to execute, but it is Heupel's responsibility to ensure they execute.

Your boss can and probably has corrected your behavior but you still screw up, now if there is someone behind you isn't as good and doesn't give your business the best chance to win, all he can do it to keep telling you to do it right, he cannot force you to do it right

So yes that is on you!

 

[Vol8188]

He's had a couple of good games the last few weeks. Wouldn't say he "lighting it up" quite yet.

3 of his last four games have been really good. 3 TDs and 300 yards in 4 games.

That’s lighting it up

 

[EastTNVol6240]

Nope, if you screw up your job once, he gets the heat, after that it is all on YOU. I assume your boss has told you and shown you how to do your job....if you can't complete it then you are to blame...not him.

Lead a horse to water....

False. This goes against leadership on all levels. JH is responsible for our players performance. Period. The end. If they don’t perform well, he fixes it. If they can’t perform well then maybe perhaps he fixes it by showing them the bench. If he doesn’t have someone better to fill the role, then himself or an assistant are to blame for poor development. Going further than that maybe it comes down to poor recruitment. It ALL falls on the leader. If it was as easy as “blame it on the player, you can lead a horse to water…..” then I suppose we would all be head coaches. He is paid the money he’s paid to fix it. Your approach to leadership isn’t leadership, it’s scapegoating.

 

[EZE]

Its f-ing terrible. We simply have dumb players. I don't mean to be mean, but their really is no excuse at this point in the season for all these STUPID screw ups, penalties and missed opportunities. Whomever it is to blame still falls at the HC feet! CJH needs to fix this GARBAGE IMMEDIATELY! It's the difference between being a contender and an also-ran. Right now... we are the latter. FOUR YEARS into his "program". Cmon. NOW we struggle to score 20 pts????? WTF?

I think you picked an absolutely perfect avatar.

 

[YankeeVol]

3 of his last four games have been really good. 3 TDs and 300 yards in 4 games.

That’s lighting it up

I just hope he keeps it up.

Hyatt needs to get going. He had 4 catches this week

 

[Golfprovol]

False. This goes against leadership on all levels. JH is responsible for our players performance. Period. The end. If they don’t perform well, he fixes it. If they can’t perform well then maybe perhaps he fixes it by showing them the bench. If he doesn’t have someone better to fill the role, then himself or an assistant are to blame for poor development. Going further than that maybe it comes down to poor recruitment. It ALL falls on the leader. If it was as easy as “blame it on the player, you can lead a horse to water…..” then I suppose we would all be head coaches. He is paid the money he’s paid to fix it. Your approach to leadership isn’t leadership, it’s scapegoating.

True in the normal world, but it isn't like he can just go hire someone new tomorrow....if the 2nd team player is young, not strong enough yet, or doesn't give us the best chance to win then he has to hope the "horse drinks" and replace it with recruiting

You should know from the Dooley years, freshmen OL doesn't work in the SEC. Freahmen DB's struggle a lot in the SEC.
Not everyone is ready to play as a freshman, not everyone develops in the first year in a program.

Look nonfurthwr than Hendon, how come hebwasnt the same guy at VT? He needed time to develop and wr caught him at the right time.

 

[Visidog]

So you are saying the read there is to ignore the guy with 3 yards and throw it to the sideline to a guy with no separation? Makes a lot of sense.

You are missing the point. Point being when people compare this offense to 2022 and say the play calling is bad, they are basically comparing Hendon to Nico. Hendon hits the guy with 3 yards, Nico throws it out of bounds

What I’m saying is that if a QB goes through his progressions and sees an open player, he throws it. Plays usually have a sequence built into them: look at this guy then that guy then the guy over there then the check down. The rules can be insanely complicated, but it’s a mix of reading pre snap alignment and post snap movement. Pressure also changes the progression and prioritizes hot routes. Many of UT’s routes change mid-play based on coverage or pressure. Roll outs also matter, as a QB moving to his right will not throw across his body and over the middle unless a WR is completely alone. QBs also have a mental clock governing when they will throw it, even if the coverage is tight, because they think there’s no time to get to a later read. Putting it up where your guy has a shot is better than taking a sack.

But the QB is not just scanning to see who is open. Each play has a progression, and QBs generally don’t pass up an open early read on the hope that somebody else is more open. Good plays have logical progressions: if option 1 is covered, option 2 should be open, and so on. And the first 2 reads will usually be the routes the coach wants to hit—that’s why they’re first.

Just seeing a guy with a couple steps doesn’t tell you whether the QB is doing a good job.

I think Hooker had success deep for two main reasons: his running forced teams to play man a lot, giving him a chance to get guys open; and he could throw a beautiful deep ball. Nico is facing more deep safeties and is being challenged to hit passes into small windows.

 

[ptcarter]

Its f-ing terrible. We simply have dumb players. I don't mean to be mean, but their really is no excuse at this point in the season for all these STUPID screw ups, penalties and missed opportunities. Whomever it is to blame still falls at the HC feet! CJH needs to fix this GARBAGE IMMEDIATELY! It's the difference between being a contender and an also-ran. Right now... we are the latter. FOUR YEARS into his "program". Cmon. NOW we struggle to score 20 pts????? WTF?

Hate to burst the bubble, but the kind of things that need fixing happen in the spring and summer. Yes, can make some minor tweaks, but the team behavior is sort of baked in now. Except for Arkansas, we've won games that were questionable at the first of the season. NOBODY saw this game as a win preseason. Yes, GA has struggled, but it's hard to win on the road in the SEC. Ask the teams that come into Neyland. If we escape Vanderbilt, I'll say this has been a decent season.

 

[VolsFan-TX]

He's had a couple of good games the last few weeks. Wouldn't say he "lighting it up" quite yet.

He is getting better, but the offense is less effective than the Hooker years. I do not think our opponents fear the 2024 version of the Heupel offense. However, our defense is much, much better.

The table below shows the offensive and defensive stats from 2021-2024 (per game averages). I color coded the best in each category by year in YELLOW and the worst in RED. The "Difference (off-def)" shows the offense - defense for each category. For my own interest, I also compared the best Heupel offense (2022) and the best Heupel defense (2024). If we had that combination, we would average 235.8 yards, 8.3 first downs, and 4.4 TDs more than our opponents per game. You could win a lot of games outscoring your opponents by 30.8 points a game (4.4 x 7).

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

We simply did not go downfield for one on one opportunities. We did it once and got a pass interference and didn’t hardly try it again. On D we tried to come with 4 way to much, our D played to bland. We didn’t make good half time adjustments. Our playbook on offense should have more wrinkles than it does at this point. Our coaches have to get more aggressive with the play calling. GBO

 

[VOLfrombama]

We simply did not go downfield for one on one opportunities. We did it once and got a pass interference and didn’t hardly try it again. On D we tried to come with 4 way to much, our D played to bland. We didn’t make good half time adjustments. Our playbook on offense should have more wrinkles than it does at this point. Our coaches have to get more aggressive with the play calling. GBO

Totally agree. The D stayed too vanilla and I didn't see many attempts to knock Beck off his spot much all night. Couple times I saw Banks bring 5 and it was picked up every time.

Just for comparison purposes. Kirby was bringing 6-7 multiple times a quarter. I'm not sure why Banks got so conservative, but he did and it showed by Timmy almost throwing for 400 yards.

I actually thought the play calling wasn't as vanilla as normal on offense. Execution continues to be the biggest issue, esp the WRs. Almost no separation. That and the lack of outside running. They gave plenty of strongside stacked looks where a good outside run back to the weak side of the D could have got Samp into a lot of space with 1-2 guys left to beat.

 

[Power_Sweep_Vol]

Totally agree. The D stayed too vanilla and I didn't see many attempts to knock Beck off his spot much all night. Couple times I saw Banks bring 5 and it was picked up every time.

Just for comparison purposes. Kirby was bringing 6-7 multiple times a quarter. I'm not sure why Banks got so conservative, but he did and it showed by Timmy almost throwing for 400 yards.

I actually thought the play calling wasn't as vanilla as normal on offense. Execution continues to be the biggest issue, esp the WRs. Almost no separation. That and the lack of outside running. They gave plenty of strongside stacked looks where a good outside run back to the weak side of the D could have got Samp into a lot of space with 1-2 guys left to beat.

How many times do you EVER watch a Tennessee offensive play call and say, "wow, that was inventive/clever"? How about never...CJH has no imagination whatsoever.

 

[SonOfGodVolforlife]

We have

Its f-ing terrible. We simply have Dumb Fans. I don't mean to be mean, but their really is no excuse at this point in the season for all these STUPID screw ups, penalties and missed opportunities. Whomever it is to blame still falls at the HC feet! CJH [/ICODE]needs to fix this GARBAGE IMMEDIATELY! It's the difference between being a contender and an also-ran. Right now... we are the latter. FOUR YEARS into his "program". Cmon. NOW we struggle to score 20 pts????? WTF??

..

These screen shots (sorry they are not centered on the issue) show what are the issues for our offense. Hendon hit these and Nico doesnt see them

Our offense and scoring doesn't have issues, the execution of it isn't what it was in 2022. This doesn't go against CJH, but rather players completing their assignments.

Receiver at the top has 3 yards on defender for a walk in TD. This happens 4-5 times per game. Hendon throws this for a TD, Nico doesnt see it.View attachment 698739

This screen shot show the player missing the block on the punter that stopped a TD. This isnt coaching this is execution. The guy puts his hands on his helmet knowing he blew the assignment. This kind of stuff happens 3-4 times per game.

View attachment 698741

so you take 2 plays and think you’ve discovered the reason our offense is struggling listen let me make this easy on you hun, hendon hooker was a senior who played outta his mind , Jaylin Hyatt, and Cedric Tillman made a big difference as well.

 

[SonOfGodVolforlife]

You’re going to find screen shots of open guys for big plays from any QB ever. You can find them with Manning, Brady, Mahommes, etc.

It’s impossible to see every WR on every play. So you stick to your progressions and sometimes your progressions will cause you to miss someone who is open. That’s okay. You stick with the process because the process works most of the time.

Good god don’t even try to talk since into these morons. Screenshots ?? this has to be the biggest DA post I’ve ever seen.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

You’re going to find screen shots of open guys for big plays from any QB ever. You can find them with Manning, Brady, Mahommes, etc.

It’s impossible to see every WR on every play. So you stick to your progressions and sometimes your progressions will cause you to miss someone who is open. That’s okay. You stick with the process because the process works most of the time.

Watching film/studying tendencies will enhance development as well, or should anyway. Good QBs may know from the pre-snap view, progression 2 is going to be wide open. Look to the first knowing you are going to throw to the second. Great QBs do it routinely

 

[VOLfrombama]

How many times do you EVER watch a Tennessee offensive play call and say, "wow, that was inventive/clever"? How about never...CJH has no imagination whatsoever.

To your point, Would I like to see more creative play calls? Absolutely, but give credit where it is due.

The Kitselman dive for the TD caught a lot of people off guard.

There was a nice screen pass set up for Sampson that was stopped due to a false start penalty. He only had to make 1 guy miss and it could have easily been a 15-20 yard gain minimum. I'm not sure we had seen that one yet, but everyone went right and samp went left along with 2 blockers and the play got blown dead. I really wanted to see that play again but i don't think they ever went back to it.

The pass to Kitselman for the first down was a nice play. He literally went to the soft spot in the zone and sat down. Easy throw and catch for a 1st down and I haven't seen that one yet that i can recall. In fact most throws of more than 7-8 yards have been to moving targets and not easy. I've been wondering where these throws were all year. They really make it easy on the Qb.

The rollout to Thornton where he dropped the ball was also a really good play call at that moment in time. Thornton ran a deep dig and came back for the ball in front of the sticks. It was one of the only pass plays where there was clearly separation due to the design of the play, just poorly executed. Just need Thornton to catch it there and keep the drive going. I wish they would call a few more of those as its very effective when your WRs can't get separation, esp to Bru who continues to be featured in spurts then ignored on 3rd down plays imo.

I'm sure there's more that Im forgetting, but now it's time to clock out and go home. My point is execution of the plays is this team's biggest issue, not the playcalling.

 

[Power_Sweep_Vol]

To your point, Would I like to see more creative play calls? Absolutely, but give credit where it is due.

The Kitselman dive for the TD caught a lot of people off guard.

There was a nice screen pass set up for Sampson that was stopped due to a false start penalty. He only had to make 1 guy miss and it could have easily been a 15-20 yard gain minimum. I'm not sure we had seen that one yet, but everyone went right and samp went left along with 2 blockers and the play got blown dead. I really wanted to see that play again but i don't think they ever went back to it.

The pass to Kitselman for the first down was a nice play. He literally went to the soft spot in the zone and sat down. Easy throw and catch for a 1st down and I haven't seen that one yet that i can recall. In fact most throws of more than 7-8 yards have been to moving targets and not easy. I've been wondering where these throws were all year. They really make it easy on the Qb.

The rollout to Thornton where he dropped the ball was also a really good play call at that moment in time. Thornton ran a deep dig and came back for the ball in front of the sticks. It was one of the only pass plays where there was clearly separation due to the design of the play, just poorly executed. Just need Thornton to catch it there and keep the drive going. I wish they would call a few more of those as its very effective when your WRs can't get separation, esp to Bru who continues to be featured in spurts then ignored on 3rd down plays imo.

I'm sure there's more that Im forgetting, but now it's time to clock out and go home. My point is execution of the plays is this team's biggest issue, not the playcalling.

c'mon man...none of that is anything close to what you'd call creative but ymmv. You see such plays 6-8x a game watching the Chiefs

 

[NCFisher]

You mentioned Hendon, Hendon had been playing for 5 years in college, this is Nico's first year.

Nico's had 299 pass attempts at TN. Hooker had slightly more than that upon arriving at TN with two season at QB.

Nico is a promise and a wish at this point. That's not denigrating him or saying he won't get there, but whether he will is entirely unknown. Exaggerating Hooker's experience isn't going to make Nico better.

 

[CAVPUT]

Watch the play, he never looks left

With our OL, he didn't have time to look left.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I agree that players are responsible for executing the play, but at the end of the day it is the coaches responsibility to ensure execution.
Continued lack of execution reflects no existing plan to address the issue.

I may screw up on my job a few times and my boss not get blamed for it. However, if I don't correct the behavior it reflects poorly on him as well.

How can a coach make players execute? You make zero sense.

 

[CAVPUT]

How many times do you EVER watch a Tennessee offensive play call and say, "wow, that was inventive/clever"? How about never...CJH has no imagination whatsoever.

Heupel has a system. Gonna run it until we.....we're gonna run it.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Nico's had 299 pass attempts at TN. Hooker didn't have that many career attempts until mid-season 2021 at TN.

Nico is a promise and a wish at this point. That's not denigrating him or saying he won't get there, but whether he will is entirely unknown. Exaggerating Hooker's experience isn't going to make Nico better.

Hooker had over 300 pass attempts before coming to TN. There is no logical way to compare a SR and a RS FR.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Heupel has a system. Gonna run it until we.....we're gonna run it.

And that system has broken records everywhere he has been. It’s also gotten us more success than we could have ever imagined.

 

[Cartervol]

Heupel has a system. Gonna run it until we.....we're gonna run it.

Hasn't looked like his system all year. We ran it faster last year with Joe Milton. He was like the Van Wilder of college football so i'll give Nico some slack here. It's the QB why we're going slower, he doesn't do that fast crap well or Heupel doesn't trust him too. It's kind of odd really. That first drive Saturday looked great. Nice mix of plays. Then we went right back to the same crap we've done all year. It's weird.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Hasn't looked like his system all year. We ran it faster last year with Joe Milton. He was like the Van Wilder of college football so i'll give Nico some slack here. It's the QB why we're going slower he doesn't do that fast crap well or Heupel doesn't trust him too. It's kind of odd really. That first drive Saturday looked great. Nice mis of plays. Then we went right back to the same crap we've done all year. It's weird.

If the tempo doesn’t get closer to 2022 levels next year, then something is wrong. You mention the play calling on the first drive and after. That’s why I don’t think Heupel calls all the plays. The first drive was great. Creative. Effective. Then like you said, boom it changed.

Now if Heupel calls all the plays like some believe in here, why would he just change what’s working? If he really did, then Heupel is a very incompetent head coach. Sorry I don’t buy that.