Oklahoma hospital shooting

#301
#301
Septic said:
Yes, this has always been my position.

But while the root of the issue is the crazy's, the ease of the unfettered access to their instrument of choice must also be open for discussion.

When the no compromise 2A crowd get serious about mental health initiatives instead of just acknowledging it's the 'real' problem and when the anti 2A crowd recognizes that gun control "W3 NeEd gUNZ coNt0L LaWZn0W!" legislation only affects the law abiding, perhaps then we can have a real discussion. Otherwise, both sides will keep talking past each other, dying on philosophical hills while kids keep dying in class rooms.

Positions shouldn't be absolute and the only goal should be doing everything as a society possible to protect life.
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I agree keeping guns away from crazy MFers is the root issue. I completely disagree that limiting law abiding citizens as collateral damage will ever be acceptable however.
 
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#302
#302
0nelilreb said:
This part you and I agree on that’s a good start , after making schools a hard target it “ should “ have and effect of the number of school shootings . Now we can move onto root problems , for me the one question that I always come back to is , what happened ? We didn’t have school shooting while I was growing up , it was something that even the most horrible , broke minded person didn’t even do . So what changed ? It wasn’t the availability of guns we know this so that’s out of the debate , what was it that we need to figure out and correct that started us on this path to the insane idea of shooting a bunch of innocent kids was cool ?
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Statistically as the population grows and the number of guns manufactured grows and the access to them remains the same - problems are inevitable. Couple that with a lack of empathy and reverence for life as people compete for finite resources and you've got a ticking time bomb that is starting to go off.
 
#303
#303
NorthDallas40 said:
I agree keeping guns away from crazy MFers is the root issue. I completely disagree that limiting law abiding citizens as collateral damage will ever be acceptable however.
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Well... everyone is a law abiding citizen until their not.

I'd be for a compromise of a 36 month trial of 21+ and a mental health screen and a 30 day waiting period for the purchase for the sale of a AR15 (or similar) traded with a permanent voter ID, in person voting requirement. Compromise and negotiate.

It's not a ban and given where we are, I think it's worth the trial. As a owner of a number of firearms, I can tell you that I've never been in a situation where I needed to buy an AR emergently. It doesn't seem like these nuts are long time gun owners snapping (except for the Vegas guy). Seems to me like young guys snapping, buying the guns and kicking in the door of a school or church. And yes, I get that it's anecdotal and that's MY perspective.
 
#304
#304
Septic said:
Well... everyone is a law abiding citizen until their not.

I'd be for a compromise of a 36 month trial of 21+ and a mental health screen and a 30 day waiting period for the purchase for the sale of a AR15 (or similar) traded with a permanent voter ID, in person voting requirement. It's not a ban and given where we are, I think it's worth the trial. As a owner of a number of firearms, I can tell you that I've never been in a situation where I needed to buy an AR emergently. And yes, I get that it's anecdotal and that's MY perspective.
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Thought police? Really? How many times have we seen PLENTY of information indicating an individual was about to be really violent and ignored it? Hmmmmmm?

And if we start limiting the rights of 18 year olds more than they are now then they are exempt from registering for selective service and military service for the same amount of time also.
 
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#305
#305
NorthDallas40 said:
Thought police? Really? How many times have we seen PLENTY of information indicating an individual was about to be really violent and ignored it? Hmmmmmm?

And if we start limiting the rights of 18 year olds more than they are now then they are exempt from registering for selective service and military service for the same amount of time also.
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I didn't say I supported it - just pointing out that no one is a criminal, until they are. Lots of these people have red flags - and at least here in Florida the red flag law makes sense and was correctly supported overwhelmingly by both sides. Although DeSantis said he'd have veto'd it, because he presumably didn't want his 2a scorecard downgraded.
 
#306
#306
Septic said:
I didn't say I supported it - just pointing out that no one is a criminal, until they are. Lots of these people have red flags - and at least here in Florida the red flag law makes sense and was correctly supported overwhelmingly by both sides. Although DeSantis said he'd have veto'd it, because he presumably didn't want his 2a scorecard downgraded.
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A better compromise on military service would be no blue water or OCONUS deployment prior to their 21 birthday too. Let’s face it there’s a bunch of kids that don’t have many alternatives. I thought about some kind of consent but that’s stupid they’re adults at 18… with limited rights.
 
#307
#307
NorthDallas40 said:
A better compromise on military service would be no blue water or OCONUS deployment prior to their 21 birthday too. Let’s face it there’s a bunch of kids that don’t have many alternatives. I thought about some kind of consent but that’s stupid they’re adults at 18… with limited rights.
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I mean, military service is voluntary. I'd agree with selective service registration at 21.
 
#308
#308
Septic said:
You'll have a hard time convincing me that our founding fathers did what they did with clear foresight of mass civilian and school murders.
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I'm pretty sure they didn't forsee the mental illness that has seeped into parts of society with men dressing and wanting to be a woman and a woman wanting to be a man or men & women sleeping with same gender. Plus some having no problem with murdering babies before they are born either.

I doubt they saw the 1st amendment being used for anything other than newspapers & pamphlets and didn't forsee something like radio, television or the internet existing.
 
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#309
#309
Septic said:
I mean, military service is voluntary. I'd agree with selective service registration at 21.
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It is yeah. But it’s absolute horse 💩 that we tell a kid he’s old enough to “die for Democracy” but not old enough to drink or buy a rifle. It’s dumb as hell.

Time for an expedited path to full citizenship. Would you like to know more?
 
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#311
#311
Septic said:
Statistically as the population grows and the number of guns manufactured grows and the access to them remains the same - problems are inevitable. Couple that with a lack of empathy and reverence for life as people compete for finite resources and you've got a ticking time bomb that is starting to go off.
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I can agree with you here , I’d like to add social media platforms as a whole . Social media has done away the need for kids and adults to interact with each other on a human bases, and the need to learn social skills outside of their created , safe , environment . I truly believe we as a society don’t bother to teach our kids that it’s ok to lose , that it’s part of life and it’s how we learn to get better . That and the ability to laugh at myself for doing dumb things are so important to being able to have a healthy mind . ( IMO)
 
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#312
#312
CagleMtnVol said:
I'm pretty sure they didn't forsee the mental illness that has seeped into parts of society with men dressing and wanting to be a woman and a woman wanting to be a man or men & women sleeping with same gender. Plus some having no problem with murdering babies before they are born either.

I doubt they saw the 1st amendment being used for anything other than newspapers & pamphlets and didn't forsee something like radio, television or the internet existing.
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I'm pretty sure they didn't either, I'd like to think if they could - they'd have been less liberal with the uninfringeable rights.
 
#314
#314
Vol8188 said:
You would support slavery
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Why don't we all support a percentage of population serve in the military? I think the red states provide the majority of them now, why don't we pass a law that once a state doesn't provide x number of its young to the military that a draft occurs to fill the rest? I can hear the screaming now.
 
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#315
#315
VolStrom said:
Why don't we all support a percentage of population serve in the military? I think the red states provide the majority of them now, why don't we pass a law that once a state doesn't provide x number of its young to the military that a draft occurs to fill the rest? I can hear the screaming now.
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Why even have a draft, or selective service even? If the military can't recruit for itself, it has issues it needs to address.
 
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#316
#316
VolStrom said:
Why don't we all support a percentage of population serve in the military? I think the red states provide the majority of them now, why don't we pass a law that once a state doesn't provide x number of its young to the military that a draft occurs to fill the rest? I can hear the screaming now.
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Because forced labor is known as slavery
 
#318
#318
VolStrom said:
I suppose you weren't alive in the 40's, 50's or 60's when people were conscripted to give their life for the greater good?
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Slavery is wrong regardless of what good deeds you may have your slaves do. If I forced my slaves to build homes for homeless veterans, it would still be an immoral act
 
#319
#319
Vol8188 said:
Slavery is wrong regardless of what good deeds you may have your slaves do. If I forced my slaves to build homes for homeless veterans, it would still be an immoral act
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What is up with the slave crap? I'm really sick of people like you that resort to things like slaves and racists and white supremacy.
 
#320
#320
VolStrom said:
What is up with the slave crap? I'm really sick of people like you that resort to things like slaves and racists and white supremacy.
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We are talking about forced labor, are we not?

Forced labor=slavery
 
#321
#321
VolStrom said:
I suppose you weren't alive in the 40's, 50's or 60's when people without government or business connections were conscripted to give their life for the greater good?
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FYP. Many of them came back psychologically wounded, if not physically, and found a government that gave them ticker tape parades and then dumped them back out to their lives. The number of homeless veterans is embarrassing for as much money as the Armed Forces receives.

And I'd still have served if my body had let me.
 
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#322
#322
AshG said:
FYP. Many of them came back psychologically wounded, if not physically, and found a government that gave them ticker tape parades and then dumped them back out to their lives. The number of homeless veterans is embarrassing for as much money as the Armed Forces receives.

And I'd still have served if my body had let me.
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Even if they were treated well, were not wounded, and had no psychological damage, it would have still been morally wrong. Because forced labor is slavery.
 
#323
#323
NorthDallas40 said:
It is yeah. But it’s absolute horse 💩 that we tell a kid he’s old enough to “die for Democracy” but not old enough to drink or buy a rifle. It’s dumb as hell.

Time for an expedited path to full citizenship. Would you like to know more?
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You forgot 21 to choose your gender
 
#324
#324
Septic said:
I stated from the beginning that both sides are the problem. Your "n0 c0mPrOmiZse!" myopia clearly didn't recognize that.

The rest is just deflection from having to acknowledge that you simply don't give a sh*t about the epidemic of mass shootings.
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No, you’re just a **** stirrer that hasn’t had an original thought in years and just loves to be a contrarian.
 
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#325
#325
hog88 said:
No, you’re just a **** stirrer that hasn’t had an original thought in years and just loves to be a contrarian.
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Lol, did you feel singled out? Snowflake.
 
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