One Year of Prison Costs More Than One Year at Princeton

#27
#27
panopticon.jpg


For anyone who is interested on Foucault's thoughts, follow this link:

Curriculum Vitae of Miguel B. Llora,and various other topics
 
#28
#28
The history of prisons is interesting.
Up until the early 1900's prisoners had to work and prisons made everything they needed and actually turned a small profit.
They used to have to work breaking rocks in quarries most of the time.
Which was really a perfect prison.
Why we ever went away from that in the name of social reform was dismal failure.
 
#29
#29
oklavol said:
The history of prisons is interesting.
Up until the early 1900's prisoners had to work and prisons made everything they needed and actually turned a small profit.
They used to have to work breaking rocks in quarries most of the time.
Which was really a perfect prison.
Why we ever went away from that in the name of social reform was dismal failure.
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Kept the prisoners too fit. Guards complained about always losing to them in football games.
 
#30
#30
They used to chop firewood at Brushy Mountain and stack it. You could back your truck in for a free load. Don't know if they still do it or not.
 
#31
#31
oklavol said:
The history of prisons is interesting.
Up until the early 1900's prisoners had to work and prisons made everything they needed and actually turned a small profit.
They used to have to work breaking rocks in quarries most of the time.
Which was really a perfect prison.
Why we ever went away from that in the name of social reform was dismal failure.
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Agreed completely. Believe it or not, there were actually some people who believed "forcing" prisoner's to work was inhumane. Incredible, I know. But sure enough, government/social reform got the better of it. And now we have our current set up, and are sitting here having a discussion about Prison cost vs. College cost. There is actually one prison in Colorado or maybe Utah I believe that still allows prisoners work in the form of raising and training some kinds of animals (can't remember what kind, exactly.) Surprisingly enough, this prison has become known as one of the "happiest" prisons in the United States. Little violence, little conflict. Many believe that the work provided gives the prisoners more fulfillment and purpose. My criminal justice professor is the one who once told me about it.

He also once stated that if it was up to him, if the prisoner's wanted to eat, he would give them a small piece of land, some farming equipment, and let them get to work. If they wanted clothes, he would give them some cheap materials, find a way to teach them to sew and nit, and let them get to work. Of all the professor's I've ever had, he was probably the smartest, and taught me the most. I almost changed my major to CRJ because of him alone. He was also a prick, though.
 
#32
#32
Forced labor at prisons undermines capitalism. Foucault speaks to this in depth in Discipline and Punish. Prisons be reserved only for those who have life sentences; they should not be "corrective" with the aim of returning prisoners to society. All offenses that one does not feel deserve life terms in prison should be punished with corporal punishment.
 
#33
#33
therealUT said:
Forced labor at prisons undermines capitalism. Foucault speaks to this in depth in Discipline and Punish. Prisons be reserved only for those who have life sentences; they should not be "corrective" with the aim of returning prisoners to society. All offenses that one does not feel deserve life terms in prison should be punished with corporal punishment.
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What does the lifers do while serving their sentence?
 
#34
#34
BeecherVol said:
What does the lifers do while serving their sentence?
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I would not have a problem with them raising their own crops, cooking their own food, and doing their own laundry. I do have a problem with them providing goods and services to any outside community.
 
#35
#35
therealUT said:
I would not have a problem with them raising their own crops, cooking their own food, and doing their own laundry. I do have a problem with them providing goods and services to any outside community.
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Should they be required to find a way to be square with the state financially at the end of the year, month, week..... Or should you and tote the rest of the note in taxes.
 
#37
#37
therealUT said:
Forced labor at prisons undermines capitalism. Foucault speaks to this in depth in Discipline and Punish. Prisons be reserved only for those who have life sentences; they should not be "corrective" with the aim of returning prisoners to society. All offenses that one does not feel deserve life terms in prison should be punished with corporal punishment.
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What do you suggest?
 
#38
#38
I'm all for forced labor. Make it miserable back-breaking work. It should help control the prison population.
 
#43
#43
Corporal punishment isn't a bad idea if it was severe enough to make them think twice about doing it. That and stiffer penalties for such crimes as child rape and murder would free up a lot of space in those prisons. We house too many that really shouldn't get 3 meals a day and a warm bed for the crimes they commit.
 
#45
#45
Cartervol said:
Corporal punishment isn't a bad idea if it was severe enough to make them think twice about doing it. That and stiffer penalties for such crimes as child rape and murder would free up a lot of space in those prisons. We house too many that really shouldn't get 3 meals a day and a warm bed for the crimes they commit.
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I would be fine with rapists and murderers (first degree) being sentenced to life imprisonment with no parole.

Everything under that should be handled with caning (serial offenders ending up with life terms).

The myth that prisons can be corrective does not hold up to empirical evidence; recidivism rates are extremely high and many times the crimes committed after prison are more severe than those committed prior to prison. Once someone goes away, the key should as well.
 
#46
#46
BeecherVol said:
I went to college because I felt like I had to make everybody happy.

I went with a buddy that got a 4 year degree I dropped out after a year. He's currently a janitor and I own a business. Im not rich but do better than he does. And he had more debt with his degree than I do with my business.
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Your buddy has a college degree and he's a janitor?
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#50
#50
BeecherVol said:
Never said it didn't. We just differ on what should be paid for and what shouldn't.
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I tend to think that being secure and free from convicted murderers and rapists is something I am willing to pay for; that said, the money should be used efficiently.
 
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