Over 100 Million Now Receiving Federal Welfare

#26
#26
Take a look at this chart from that story:

NA-BN588_Benefi_G_20111005140904.jpg


It appears that from 2000-2008 it went from 38% to 45%. -- 7 points (most of the increase when the economy was doing great)

From 2008 to 2011 it has gone from 45% to 49%. -- 4 points

Where was all of this outrage from 2000-2008?


Once, again -- I find these numbers to be very troubling... It's just a little suspect that it is of utmost importance now, when no one seemed to care while Bush was in office.
 
#27
#27
Orlando Vol said:
It's just a little suspect that it is of utmost importance now, when no one seemed to care while Bush was in office.
Click to expand...

an often repeated and always wrong statement. Bush caught plenty of flak for his out of control spending.
 
#28
#28
Orlando Vol said:
Take a look at this chart from that story:

NA-BN588_Benefi_G_20111005140904.jpg


It appears that from 2000-2008 it went from 38% to 45%. -- 7 points (most of the increase when the economy was doing great)

From 2008 to 2011 it has gone from 45% to 49%. -- 4 points

Where was all of this outrage from 2000-2008?


Once, again -- I find these numbers to be very troubling... It's just a little suspect that it is of utmost importance now, when no one seemed to care while Bush was in office.
Click to expand...

uh, if you'll notice, the slope of that line was hideous prior to 2000 as well. It was a problem under Bush II and he expanded entitlements massively.

The problem under Obama is that the slope of that line has increased dramatically and will be worse once free HC is added. How about the slope of that line 5 years from now?

The culture of congress, using gov't funds to buy re-election, is the main culprit. Obama has simply doubled down on the problem, while claiming to be "new DC."
 
#29
#29
BigPapaVol said:
I'm surprised I missed that when it came out. Holy crap. How fast will that number grow?
Click to expand...


Gotta think that an improving economy will reverse it some but once given it is hard to take away.

The tricky part of the number is it is people who live in a household that receives...(in both the OP and the WSJ article). I would imagine that doesn't change things too much (e.g. family of four receiving foodstamps is one household and four people for this count). Where it may be a little overstated is if one person in the HH gets welfare but others don't?

Anyway you slice it, over a 1/3 of people are seeing government monies coming in the door.
 
#30
#30
Orlando Vol said:
Take a look at this chart from that story:

NA-BN588_Benefi_G_20111005140904.jpg


It appears that from 2000-2008 it went from 38% to 45%. -- 7 points (most of the increase when the economy was doing great)

From 2008 to 2011 it has gone from 45% to 49%. -- 4 points

Where was all of this outrage from 2000-2008?


Once, again -- I find these numbers to be very troubling... It's just a little suspect that it is of utmost importance now, when no one seemed to care while Bush was in office.
Click to expand...

Oh boy, this crap again. "No one cared about the deficit when Bush...blah, blah, blah"

The whole trend line is terrible. My guess is the dip in the 90s was welfare reform which just got a major kick in the nuts. The growth in the 2000s is probably the expansion of Medicare Part D (which plenty of people have complained about) and the expansion of CHIP programs.

It's not all Obama's fault but he is actively pushing this further and using class warfare and "fair share" to do so.

Finally, the trend line took an ominous jump recently no?
 
#31
#31
volinbham said:
Finally, the trend line took an ominous jump recently no?
Click to expand...

The economy has SUCKED since mid-2008... We're in the worst economy since the great depression, and not to mention there are WAAAAAY more people in the country now than there were back then.


I'm not making excuses, but the blame for all of this surely cannot be placed squarely on Barack Obama's shoulders.

For ten years, Americans lived liked kings and queens on money that never even existed in the form of "home equity"... That is GONE, and we are picking up the pieces of that collapse.

It's not going to change over night, and it only makes sense that more people are going to need the "safety net" when the economy is in the toilet.

When the economy does pick up, that line will begin to level off and eventually and hopefully trend back down.
 
#32
#32
Orlando Vol said:
The economy has SUCKED since mid-2008... We're in the worst economy since the great depression, and not to mention there are WAAAAAY more people in the country now than there were back then.


I'm not making excuses, but the blame for all of this surely cannot be placed squarely on Barack Obama's shoulders.

For ten years, Americans lived liked kings and queens on money that never even existed in the form of "home equity"... That is GONE, and we are picking up the pieces of that collapse.

It's not going to change over night, and it only makes sense that more people are going to need the "safety net" when the economy is in the toilet.

When the economy does pick up, that line will begin to level off and eventually and hopefully trend back down.
Click to expand...

I'm not blaming it all on Obama - not by a long shot. I am saying that in addition to the bad economy, he has been moving towards loosening the requirements and has made no indication he sees this expansion as a problem.

Let's put it this way, I see no indication Obama will do anything to reverse the trend and plenty of indications he'll continue the trend.

Here's a helpful chart showing a bit of how we got here.

P1-AX212_benefi_G_20100914213109.jpg
 
#33
#33
Orlando Vol said:
The economy has SUCKED since mid-2008... We're in the worst economy since the great depression, and not to mention there are WAAAAAY more people in the country now than there were back then.


I'm not making excuses, but the blame for all of this surely cannot be placed squarely on Barack Obama's shoulders.

For ten years, Americans lived liked kings and queens on money that never even existed in the form of "home equity"... That is GONE, and we are picking up the pieces of that collapse.

It's not going to change over night, and it only makes sense that more people are going to need the "safety net" when the economy is in the toilet.

When the economy does pick up, that line will begin to level off and eventually and hopefully trend back down.
Click to expand...

The problem is the "safety net" has turned into a way of life for many. Easier to live off welfare/unemployment ext than to work, pull yourself out of the hole.
 
#34
#34
hog88 said:
The problem is the "safety net" has turned into a way of life for many. Easier to live off welfare/unemployment ext than to work, pull yourself out of the hole.
Click to expand...

and that is what modern govt requires. They need a large chunk of the population to be completely dependent on them in order to keep/expand their power. Less govt means less opportunities for people in DC to get rich
 
#35
#35
hog88 said:
The problem is the "safety net" has turned into a way of life for many. Easier to live off welfare/unemployment ext than to work, pull yourself out of the hole.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that all or even most would choose to make it a way of life.

I don't think of that life as "easy" at all.... It would suck!

I know at least a dozen talented, smart and driven professional engineers that lost their jobs because of the slowdown here in central Florida. All of them have now thankfully found jobs, but I know for a fact that a number of them would have lost their homes and struggled to feed their families if it were not for the unemplyment benefits they received (and paid for throughout their careers) while they worked to get a new job.
 
#36
#36
Orlando Vol said:
I don't believe that all or even most would choose to make it a way of life.

I don't think of that life as "easy" at all.... It would suck!

I know at least a dozen talented, smart and driven professional engineers that lost their jobs because of the slowdown here in central Florida. All of them have now thankfully found jobs, but I know for a fact that a number of them would have lost their homes and struggled to feed their families if it were not for the unemplyment benefits they received (and paid for throughout their careers) while they worked to get a new job.
Click to expand...

Unemployment is not the same as welfare. You pay into unemployment, it is (nominally) temporary, and you can get it no matter what your income level.
 
#37
#37
Orlando Vol said:
I don't believe that all or even most would choose to make it a way of life.

I don't think of that life as "easy" at all.... It would suck!

I know at least a dozen talented, smart and driven professional engineers that lost their jobs because of the slowdown here in central Florida. All of them have now thankfully found jobs, but I know for a fact that a number of them would have lost their homes and struggled to feed their families if it were not for the unemplyment benefits they received (and paid for throughout their careers) while they worked to get a new job.
Click to expand...

you don't believe people choose to live on the dole as a way of life based on people you know who are likely highly educated and driven (they're engineers after all) that worked like hell to get off welfare?
 
#38
#38
Orlando Vol said:
I don't believe that all or even most would choose to make it a way of life.
Click to expand...

not true. There's a thing called pride that some seemed to have lost

Orlando Vol said:
but I know for a fact that a number of them would have lost their homes and struggled to feed their families if it were not for the unemplyment benefits they received (and paid for throughout their careers) while they worked to get a new job.
Click to expand...

so you're saying that if the unemployment benefits never existed they wouldn't have taken any job they could find to feed their family? There are jobs out there but many feel they are beneath them to take. I would not have that issue if it came down to my family eating
 
#39
#39
Orlando Vol said:
I don't believe that all or even most would choose to make it a way of life.
Click to expand...

I agree. However, I think the accumulated evidence is clear that the "choice" part gets harder and harder the longer someone is dependent. I believe most people are motivated and good - I just think the well intentioned efforts to "help" often do more harm in the long run.

I don't think of that life as "easy" at all.... It would suck!
Click to expand...

Again, I agree but couple with my first point we are actively encouraging people to get into a sucky life. That's why the Exec Order on welfare changing what counts as work/work training is potentially so bad - it tells people they don't have to try so hard anymore to get out of their predicament. Sounds compassionate but don't think it helps in the long run.

I know at least a dozen talented, smart and driven professional engineers that lost their jobs because of the slowdown here in central Florida. All of them have now thankfully found jobs, but I know for a fact that a number of them would have lost their homes and struggled to feed their families if it were not for the unemplyment benefits they received (and paid for throughout their careers) while they worked to get a new job.
Click to expand...

I know many too and all of them were good, hard working people. What I saw with some was that the benefits meant they could wait for the "right" opportunity rather than seek work that would get them through. For some, this waiting was just what was needed. For others, their skills deteriorated by being out of the work force all together.

Also, as has been pointed out UE is by definition temporary. Typically it has been at 26 weeks. The 99 weeks we have now probably does as much harm as good.
 
#40
#40
Orlando Vol said:
I don't believe that all or even most would choose to make it a way of life.

I don't think of that life as "easy" at all.... It would suck!

I know at least a dozen talented, smart and driven professional engineers that lost their jobs because of the slowdown here in central Florida. All of them have now thankfully found jobs, but I know for a fact that a number of them would have lost their homes and struggled to feed their families if it were not for the unemplyment benefits they received (and paid for throughout their careers) while they worked to get a new job.
Click to expand...

My wife manages several section 8/ tax credit properties, she sees it every day. They even post job openings to their residents before the GP and rarely ever get responses.

I have had several entry level postions paying $12 to $14 per hour over the last couple of years and cannot count the times we've heard, "I'll use up my 99 weeks first".
 
#41
#41
Orlando Vol said:
I don't believe that all or even most would choose to make it a way of life.

I don't think of that life as "easy" at all.... It would suck!

I know at least a dozen talented, smart and driven professional engineers that lost their jobs because of the slowdown here in central Florida. All of them have now thankfully found jobs, but I know for a fact that a number of them would have lost their homes and struggled to feed their families if it were not for the unemplyment benefits they received (and paid for throughout their careers) while they worked to get a new job.
Click to expand...

How many people do you know on long term assistance? And I'm not talking about elderly or truly disabled. I'm talking about able-bodied men and women in the 25-45 age group pulling in money for rent, food, phone, childcare and utilities (i.e. spending money). I know plenty of them and they ride the system for all they can. You can't point to any certain ethnic group, race or even a family and say they all do it. But within each group you have individuals who have convinced themselves this is the only way they can get by. They've justified it in their minds and set themselves up to meet the requirements to stay on assistance regardless of any opportunities you may bring them. I've even offered jobs to individuals only to watch them go through the mental gyrations to justify why they just couldn't accept. We've made it too easy to stay on and, worse of all, we've taken away the shame that used to go along with it.

I'm all for a safety net and I'm all for assistance to the truly needy, but we've allowed a large percentage of our country to vote themselves bread and circuses and it is going to bankrupt us.
 
#42
#42
volinbham said:
I agree. However, I think the accumulated evidence is clear that the "choice" part gets harder and harder the longer someone is dependent. I believe most people are motivated and good - I just think the well intentioned efforts to "help" often do more harm in the long run.
Click to expand...

By the third and fourth generation, the motivated and good pretty much don't existing. At that point, they're effectively professionals.
 
#46
#46
YorkVol said:
How many people do you know on long term assistance? And I'm not talking about elderly or truly disabled. I'm talking about able-bodied men and women in the 25-45 age group pulling in money for rent, food, phone, childcare and utilities (i.e. spending money). I know plenty of them and they ride the system for all they can. You can't point to any certain ethnic group, race or even a family and say they all do it. But within each group you have individuals who have convinced themselves this is the only way they can get by. They've justified it in their minds and set themselves up to meet the requirements to stay on assistance regardless of any opportunities you may bring them. I've even offered jobs to individuals only to watch them go through the mental gyrations to justify why they just couldn't accept. We've made it too easy to stay on and, worse of all, we've taken away the shame that used to go along with it.

I'm all for a safety net and I'm all for assistance to the truly needy, but we've allowed a large percentage of our country to vote themselves bread and circuses and it is going to bankrupt us.
Click to expand...
The section 8 situation is an enormous disgrace. My interaction with that agency just confirmed every fear I have about governmental administration. Those running the system are perpetuating and growing the system and call it "social" work. The incentive is expansion. "Let me find a way to get you more" is the refrain.
 
#47
#47
It isn't hopeless though. When we took in our 16 year old who came from a family that road the system like a surf board, he thought we were either too rich to need assistance or too stupid to ask for it. Now when you talk to him there is nothing that a little effort can't fix and going on assistance is the last thing anyone should do. A few weeks ago he declared himself to be the only Black Republican in York, PA! We're starting on Libertarian indoctrination next...
 
#48
#48
volinbham said:
it definitely becomes a way of life - it's what you know.
Click to expand...

and our govt backs it up and removes any stigma attached. I really don't know how they do it with a straight face but I do know I don't want in on any congressional poker games
 
#49
#49
utvolpj said:
and our govt backs it up and removes any stigma attached. I really don't know how they do it with a straight face but I do know I don't want in on any congressional poker games
Click to expand...

the stigma was the only defense the system had and it's been totally undermined. We can at least hope for some pride somewhere in the system, such that embarrassment would provide some kind of deterrent.
 
#50
#50
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top