PAC12 player group is not too bright

[The Original Fade]

The PAC12 player group is now mad that the conference cancelled football and has reiterated its list of demands WHICH WERE ALREADY BEING MET BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO FORM THEIR GROUP. Now they want to form a players association. I get the sense these players are being taken for a ride by some lawyers

 

[TCNC53]

The PAC12 player group is now mad that the conference cancelled football and has reiterated its list of demands WHICH WERE ALREADY BEING MET BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO FORM THEIR GROUP. Now they want to form a players association. I get the sense these players are being taken for a ride by some lawyers

I think there are more than just lawyers involved here now.

 

[RobertPellitt]

The PAC12 player group is now mad that the conference cancelled football and has reiterated its list of demands WHICH WERE ALREADY BEING MET BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO FORM THEIR GROUP. Now they want to form a players association. I get the sense these players are being taken for a ride by some lawyers

So blame the unknown lawyer, a person that you don't even know exits? First, just because people do something you don't agree with do not insult them as being dumb or taken advantage of. This was a very smart thing for these college kids to do. Some of their demands were being met, some were not. Some had not even come to fruition yet, so clearly they could not have met. I promise you, the Conferences that canceled the seasons did so because of liability reasons and not because student-ATHLETES were finally beginning to assert their power. The next phase will be when the Conferences that want to play put a general release and waiver in front of these kids that the NCAA initially objected to. Will the lawyers be blamed then? If that happens I think we can no longer view the student-Athlete, as such, but rather an employee/independent contractor of the University and or Conference. They better have a lawyer at that time to negotiate what they get in return for signing that release.

 

[sigmundoooz]

So blame the unknown lawyer, a person that you don't even know exits? First, just because people do something you don't agree with do not insult them as being dumb or taken advantage of. This was a very smart thing for these college kids to do. Some of their demands were being met, some were not. Some had not even come to fruition yet, so clearly they could not have met. I promise you, the Conferences that canceled the seasons did so because of liability reasons and not because student-ATHLETES were finally beginning to assert their power. The next phase will be when the Conferences that want to play put a general release and waiver in front of these kids that the NCAA initially objected to. Will the lawyers be blamed then? If that happens I think we can no longer view the student-Athlete, as such, but rather an employee/independent contractor of the University and or Conference. They better have a lawyer at that time to negotiate what they get in return for signing that release.

Signing a waiver does not make you an employee. Otherwise, I should be getting paychecks from multiple gun clubs, a couple of white water rafting companies, a couple of summer camps, the Boy Scouts, Gold Rush Junction, Silver Dollar City, Six Flags Over Georgia, Kings Island, Universal Studios (Hollywood and Orlando), SeaWorld, Disney world, Disney Land and several long since defunct water slide parks that I can't even remember the names of. Darn it, I should be very wealthy from being an employee of all those places. Where's my money?

 

[ButchPlz]

Signing a waiver does not make you an employee. Otherwise, I should be getting paychecks from multiple gun clubs, a couple of white water rafting companies, a couple of summer camps, the Boy Scouts, Gold Rush Junction, Silver Dollar City, Six Flags Over Georgia, Kings Island, Universal Studios (Hollywood and Orlando), SeaWorld, Disney world, Disney Land and several long since defunct water slide parks that I can't even remember the names of. Darn it, I should be very wealthy from being an employee of all those places. Where's my money?

Yeah, why TF I have to pay to go shoot at the indoor range when signing their waiver should mean I'm an employee? I'm suing for back wages.

 

[RobertPellitt]

Signing a waiver does not make you an employee. Otherwise, I should be getting paychecks from multiple gun clubs, a couple of white water rafting companies, a couple of summer camps, the Boy Scouts, Gold Rush Junction, Silver Dollar City, Six Flags Over Georgia, Kings Island, Universal Studios (Hollywood and Orlando), SeaWorld, Disney world, Disney Land and several long since defunct water slide parks that I can't even remember the names of. Darn it, I should be very wealthy from being an employee of all those places. Where's my money?

Reading is important. I did not argue that signing it made them employee. It does however, make them something different than they used to be. So it is quite different than your scenarios. There is always a quid pro quo with any release. You signed it to go to King's Island (which does not happen in real life) so you could enjoy the ride. However, if you bought your ticket and then they told you, you had to sign it then the relationship changes. See how that works? They changed your initial agreement, so what do you get for signing it after your original agreement? So if you are already on scholarship and they ask you to sign something that takes away a right from you, then they must give you something in return, something you didn't already have. If they don't then the agreement is called illusory, it was not based on consideration. So quite different than your scenario.

 

[birdie74]

Regardless of COVID, if kids don't want to play under the current conditions of "financial inequity," then don't play. If there is too much of a risk to future income, then don't play. If some Universities (most don't) profit from the players' labors, then don't play. I can guarantee you, there are a lot of kids who will play for a free education, meals. housing, medical care, training, counseling, clothing, stipends, etc.
Entitlement is a shameful, debilitating and selfish place to live...

 

[RobertPellitt]

Yeah, why TF I have to pay to go shoot at the indoor range when signing their waiver should mean I'm an employee? I'm suing for back wages.

Do you represent the gun range? Do you get meals at the gun range? Do you get a monetary stippen from the gun range? When you leave the gun range are you in any way affiliated with the gun range, to the extent if you use any of your 1st Amendment speech you could lose your right to go to the gun range? Does the gun range drug test your for narcotics and gun enhancing steroids? Could the gun range tell you, hey we appreciate you coming here but you really suck at this shooting thing and we no longer need you to come back even if you want to? If you were to transfer to another gun range would someone tell you which one you could go to and which ones you could not? Would you have to wait out an entire year before you could go to another gun range?

Clearly there is a big difference.

 

[Tnphil]

Article:
Cancelling the college football season is about union busting, not health

Cancelling the college football season is about union busting, not health

 

[give_him 6]

Maybe they can start pulling statues down on campus and taking to the streets. Its 2020 after all.

 

[ButchPlz]

Do you represent the gun range? Do you get meals at the gun range? Do you get a monetary stippen from the gun range? When you leave the gun range are you in any way affiliated with the gun range, to the extent if you use any of your 1st Amendment speech you could lose your right to go to the gun range? Does the gun range drug test your for narcotics and gun enhancing steroids? Could the gun range tell you, hey we appreciate you coming here but you really suck at this shooting thing and we no longer need you to come back even if you want to? If you were to transfer to another gun range would someone tell you which one you could go to and which ones you could not? Would you have to wait out an entire year before you could go to another gun range?

Clearly there is a big difference.

The problem with your post is that you decided that a "waiver" indicated a point of employment, and another poster pointed out that silliness to you. Nobody is denying the difference. We're asking why a "waiver" creates an employee.

 

[RobertPellitt]

The problem with your post is that you decided that a "waiver" indicated a point of employment, and another poster pointed out that silliness to you. Nobody is denying the difference. We're asking why a "waiver" creates an employee.

It makes them more like an employee than they ever have been. It is employee like, there are something more than a student, something more than an athlete, something more than a student-athlete, so it is logical since they are now being paid for the services and would be signing a waiver that they be more akin to an employee/independent contractor than ever before. The scenarios of signing a waiver to bungee jump or go to the gun range are not even close to the scenario that is playing out on college campuses.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think there are more than just lawyers involved here now.

Politicians...

 

[bbstone]

I would imagine the quid pro qou is pretty simple. Sign the waiver and you can play if want. Dont sign it, go kick rocks. Thats the dumbed down version of contract.

 

[RobertPellitt]

I would imagine the quid pro qou is pretty simple. Sign the waiver and you can play if want. Dont sign it, go kick rocks. Thats the dumbed down version of contract.

That is a very dumbed down version of how contracts work, but unfortunately that is not how it works. Not trying to be rude but that is simply not accurate.

 

[TJSVOLS]

It makes them more like an employee than they ever have been. It is employee like, there are something more than a student, something more than an athlete, something more than a student-athlete, so it is logical since they are now being paid for the services and would be signing a waiver that they be more akin to an employee/independent contractor than ever before. The scenarios of signing a waiver to bungee jump or go to the gun range are not even close to the scenario that is playing out on college campuses.

So are high school athletes employees? If so child labor laws need to be checked out...

 

[MontyPython]

PAC12 player group is not too bright

Oh, boy...

Per Forbes 2019 List of Best Colleges:

#2 Stanford
#13 California
#30 USC

#224 U. of Tennessee, Knoxville

 

[Purple Tiger]

So are high school athletes employees? If so child labor laws need to be checked out...

Do they get anything besides a letter in return for their services?

 

[hog88]

So blame the unknown lawyer, a person that you don't even know exits? First, just because people do something you don't agree with do not insult them as being dumb or taken advantage of. This was a very smart thing for these college kids to do. Some of their demands were being met, some were not. Some had not even come to fruition yet, so clearly they could not have met. I promise you, the Conferences that canceled the seasons did so because of liability reasons and not because student-ATHLETES were finally beginning to assert their power. The next phase will be when the Conferences that want to play put a general release and waiver in front of these kids that the NCAA initially objected to. Will the lawyers be blamed then? If that happens I think we can no longer view the student-Athlete, as such, but rather an employee/independent contractor of the University and or Conference. They better have a lawyer at that time to negotiate what they get in return for signing that release.

Lawyers suck and ruin everything.

 

[TJSVOLS]

Do they get anything besides a letter in return for their services?

Depends on how good they are...

 

[RobertPellitt]

So are high school athletes employees? If so child labor laws need to be checked out...

Are they getting paid already? Are they receiving any benefit that is of value already? I mean you do see the differences between a high school student who participates in an extra-curricular activity as opposed to a paid athlete attending a major university in a top five conference that generates billions of dollars, correct? I am not trying to be rude but these comparisons are just not very good. Although, this one was better than King's Island and the gun range, so maybe there is progression to it. Just as an aside, I bet the high school waivers that you are talking about may not be worth the paper they are written on because you are dealing with minors. I think thre would be a really good argument that if a child gets exposed to the virus and has a significant impairment the parent who signed for him may not be able to bind the child once he turns eighteen (18) and courts MAY even say the parent was not sufficiently informed to give consent on behalf of the child. Again, I think these are different animals than what I have been suggesting.

 

[RobertPellitt]

So are high school athletes employees? If so child labor laws need to be checked out...

Are they getting paid already? Are they receiving any benefit that is of value already? I mean you do see the differences between a high school student who participates in an extra-curricular activity as opposed to a paid athlete attending a major university in a top five conference that generates billions of dollars, correct? I am not trying to be rude but these comparisons are just not very good. Although, this one was better than King's Island and the gun range, so maybe there is progression to it. Just as an aside, I bet the high school waivers that you are talking about may not be worth the paper they are written on because you are dealing with minors. I think thre would be a really good argument that if a child gets exposed to the virus and has a significant impairment the parent who signed for him may not be able to bind the child once he turns eighteen (18) and courts MAY even say the parent was sufficiently informed to give consent on behalf of the child. Again, I think these are different animals than what I have been suggesting.

Maybe they can start pulling statues down on campus and taking to the streets. Its 2020 after all.

If it is a statue of a loser Confederate Solider I would be all for it!

 

[Dudleys87]

The PAC12 player group is now mad that the conference cancelled football and has reiterated its list of demands WHICH WERE ALREADY BEING MET BEFORE THEY DECIDED TO FORM THEIR GROUP. Now they want to form a players association. I get the sense these players are being taken for a ride by some lawyers

This is what happens when you make demands. You better be on your Ps and Qs or someone is going to turn the tables. Sounds like they called their bluff and they won and now the players are scrambling.

 

[give_him 6]

Are they getting paid already? Are they receiving any benefit that is of value already? I mean you do see the differences between a high school student who participates in an extra-curricular activity as opposed to a paid athlete attending a major university in a top five conference that generates billions of dollars, correct? I am not trying to be rude but these comparisons are just not very good. Although, this one was better than King's Island and the gun range, so maybe there is progression to it. Just as an aside, I bet the high school waivers that you are talking about may not be worth the paper they are written on because you are dealing with minors. I think thre would be a really good argument that if a child gets exposed to the virus and has a significant impairment the parent who signed for him may not be able to bind the child once he turns eighteen (18) and courts MAY even say the parent was sufficiently informed to give consent on behalf of the child. Again, I think these are different animals than what I have been suggesting.

If it is a statue of a loser Confederate Solider I would be all for it!

Its not just confederate statues coming down in 2020.

 

[RobertPellitt]

Its not just confederate statues coming down in 2020.

Statutes of slave owners being taken down are also ok by me. Let's put some up to remember the slaves and victims of racism, that seems more appropriate to me. But this seems a bit off topic, don't you think?