Pakistani actress rips islam.

[JTrainDavis]

Is there a material difference between this and Christianity? Haven't Christian clerics protested against pornography and sexually explicit media while at the same time privately raping and molesting children?
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Looking at things objectively would kill all the bickering around here, and might actually lead to productive conversation....

Who would want that?

 

[IPorange]

Is there a material difference between this and Christianity? Haven't Christian clerics protested against pornography and sexually explicit media while at the same time privately raping and molesting children?
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Let him wave his pom poms. It isn't fooling anyone with a brain.

 

[gsvol]

Is there a material difference between this and Christianity? Haven't Christian clerics protested against pornography and sexually explicit media while at the same time privately raping and molesting children?
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Again the big difference is that such behavior
may ocassionally happen in Christianity it is not
condoned nor accepted as excusable by either
church leaders or the body of believers.

OTOH in islam is accepted and condoned by their
spiritual leaders and muslims alike, certain rituals
such as the washing of hands or a sham marriage
ceremony in the case of raped virgin girls legitimize
that behavior.

After all the spiritual idol married a girl nine years
old and he is held up to muslims as the perfect
example.

Let him wave his pom poms. It isn't fooling anyone with a brain.

Speaking of brains, if there is such a thing as a
program to dumb down America then it has been
hugely successful according to the posts of some
of you whose reflections defy all logic or rational
analysis.

During one of the islamic inspired wars to eradicate
Israel, (the one in shich ships were sunk in the Suez
Canal) a friend of mine who was a Merchant Marine
was on a cargo ship that left a port in India and had
to sail around the Cape of Good Hope, up through
the Atlantic and accross the med to arrive at it's
destination in Beiruit, Lebanon which took about
three months.

He was desperate to get some dry land under
his feet but the muslims were busy driving the
Christians out of southern Lebanon and attacking
them in Beiruit itself.

It is against international law for a merchant marine
to go ashore armed so he was taking his life in his
hands but luckily ran into a National Guard patrol
from a unit near his home in East Tennessee. They
were serving as part of UN peace keeping mission
and were under orders to be locked and loaded at
all times so as to be able to defend themselves.

This long lasting era in which muslims have been
making a small scale war on the Christians of
Lebanon, although not ever mentioned in our
own media, is well documented in two books by
Brigette Gabriel titled; "Because they hate" and
"They must be stopped."

They all decided to take a tour out though the
countryside stopped at several public houses
we might call taverns here. These businesses
served alchohol and hash hish and had booths
in the back with curtains than might be closed.

In nearly all of them they would find men having
sex with boys aged eight to twelve. They would
stick the muzzle of a rifle under the mans nose
and lead him outside, give him directions into the
desert and fire a few rounds into the air to increase
his haste to depart.

After finishing off the liquor they would burn the
place to the ground, load the abused boys on a
truck and proceed on down the road.

When the returned to Beiruit that gave the boys
to a Catholic orphanage.

Were the boys also abused in the orphanage??
Most likely one thing is for sure, they weren't
pimped out to the public as sex objects.

Pederasty is widespread throughout the world of islam
and considered normal behavior, in the Christian world
it does unfortunatly happen occasionally but is
considered a crime.

If you can't perceive that huge difference then I advise
you not to visit the Grand Canyon, you might just walk
off into it.

 

[therealUT]

There may be a correlation between the cultures of the Middle East and Southwest Asia and pedophilia, however there is definitely not a causal link to Islam.

Ancient Greeks and Turks also practiced pedophilia...they certainly were not Islamic.

As for the "Sham Weddings" and prostitution: yes, it happens; no, it is not condoned by the entire Muslim world. The difference is that there is a structure and hierarchy among the largest Christian denomination in the world, the Roman Catholic Church that can easily come out, make a press statement, and release talking points to Cardinals, Arch-Bishops, and Bishops regarding pedophilia among Christian Clerics (it is certainly not isolated to Catholic Priests). No such hierarchy exists in Islam; there is not a unified voice nor a unified message; therefore, whichever any news outlet can find any voice and any "Muslim message" they wish to present to fit their agenda.

 

[gsvol]

There may be a correlation between the cultures of the Middle East and Southwest Asia and pedophilia, however there is definitely not a causal link to Islam.

Ancient Greeks and Turks also practiced pedophilia...they certainly were not Islamic.

As for the "Sham Weddings" and prostitution: yes, it happens; no, it is not condoned by the entire Muslim world. The difference is that there is a structure and hierarchy among the largest Christian denomination in the world, the Roman Catholic Church that can easily come out, make a press statement, and release talking points to Cardinals, Arch-Bishops, and Bishops regarding pedophilia among Christian Clerics (it is certainly not isolated to Catholic Priests). No such hierarchy exists in Islam; there is not a unified voice nor a unified message; therefore, whichever any news outlet can find any voice and any "Muslim message" they wish to present to fit their agenda.

To say there is no hierarchy in islam is sheer ignorance!!

As for the Turks, for hundreds of years the Ottoman
empire extracted a tribute of a certain percentage of
young boys from Christian areas of the Balkans and
eastern Europe who were sodomized, converted to
islam and made to serve in the muslim armies.

All still beside the point that Veena Malik has shown
extreme courage to stand up to the muslim clerics
and any thinking person should lend her support
rather than belittling her stance because defying
these bullies is the only way we will quell the current
onslaught of islamic jihad accross the world,
appeasement only encourages their evil advances!!

 

[therealUT]

To say there is no hierarchy in islam is sheer ignorance!!

Care to demonstrate this structured and unified hierarchy and compare it to that of the Roman Catholic Church? Can you do this without the aid of any exclamation points?

I'll hang up and listen.
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[IPorange]

This is going to be good.

 

[gsvol]

Care to demonstrate this structured and unified hierarchy and compare it to that of the Roman Catholic Church? Can you do this without the aid of any exclamation points?

I'll hang up and listen.
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Very well I will honor you obfuscation from the topic, ie; the subjugation and belittlement of women in the world of islam.

You know of course that the Roman Castholic Chuch is only one sect of Christianity??

The head of the 'religion' of islam is the caliph.

Sunni Caliph definition of Sunni Caliph in the Free Online Encyclopedia.

caliph (kăl`ĭf'), the spiritual head and temporal ruler of the Islamic state. In principle, Islam Islam , [Arab.,=submission to God], world religion founded by the Prophet Muhammad. Founded in the 7th cent., Islam is the youngest of the three monotheistic world religions (with Judaism and Christianity). An adherent to Islam is a Muslim [Arab.,=one who submits].
..... Click the link for more information. is theocratic: when Muhammad Muhammad [Arab.,=praised], 570?–632, the name of the Prophet of Islam, one of the great figures of history, b. Mecca. Early Life


Muhammad was the son of Abdallah ibn Abd al-Muttalib and his wife Amina, both of the Hashim clan of the dominant
..... Click the link for more information. died, a caliph [Arab.,=successor] was chosen to rule in his place. The caliph had temporal and spiritual authority but was not permitted prophetic power; this was reserved for Muhammad. The caliph could not, therefore, exercise authority in matters of religious doctrine. The first caliph was Abu Bakr Abu Bakr , 573–634, 1st caliph, friend, father-in-law, and successor of Muhammad. He was probably Muhammad's first convert outside the Prophet's family and alone accompanied Muhammad on the Hegira.
..... Click the link for more information. . He was succeeded by Umar Umar or Omar , c.581–644, 2d caliph (see caliphate). At first hostile to Islam, he was converted by 618, becoming an adviser to Muhammad. He succeeded Abu Bakr as caliph without opposition in 634.
..... Click the link for more information. , Uthman Uthman or Othman , c.574–656, 3d caliph (644–56), also known as Uthman ibn al-Affan; son-in-law of Muhammad. He belonged to the great Umayyad family and was selected as caliph after the murder of Umar.
..... Click the link for more information. , and Ali Ali (Ali ibn Abu Talib), 598?–661, 4th caliph (656–61). The debate over his right to the caliphate caused a major split in Islam into Sunni and Shiite branches, and he is regarded by the Shiites as the first Imam, or leader: Shiite derives from the phrase
..... Click the link for more information. . Sunni Sunni [Arab. Sunna,=tradition], from ahl al-sunnah wa-l-jamaa [Arab.,=the people of the custom of the Prophet and community], the largest division of Islam.
..... Click the link for more information. Muslims recognize these first four, or Rashidun (the rightly guided), caliphs. Shiites Shiites [Arab., shiat Ali,=the party of Ali], the second largest branch of Islam, Shiites currently account for 10%–15% of all Muslims. Shiite Islam originated as a political movement supporting Ali (cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad, the Prophet of
..... Click the link for more information. , however, recognize Ali as the first caliph. After Ali's death, Muawiya Muawiya , d. 680, 1st Umayyad caliph (661–80), one of the greatest Muslim statesmen; son of Abu Sufyan, a Koreish tribesman of Mecca. He submitted to Islam the year of the surrender of Mecca and became Muhammad's secretary.
..... Click the link for more information. became caliph and founded the Umayyad Umayyad , the first Islamic dynasty (661–750). Their reign witnessed the return to leadership roles of the pre-Islamic Arab elite, and the rejuvenation of tribal loyalties. The Banu Ummaya constituted the higher stratum of the pre-Islamic Meccan elite.
..... Click the link for more information. dynasty (661–750), chiefly by force of arms. Its capital was Damascus. In 750 the Abbasid Abbasid or Abbaside , Arab family descended from Abbas, the uncle of Muhammad. The Abbasids held the caliphate from 749 to 1258, but they were recognized neither in Spain nor (after 787) W of Egypt.
..... Click the link for more information. family, descended from the Prophet's uncle, led a coalition that defeated (749–50) the Umayyad family. The Abbasid dynasty (749–1258) is sometimes called the caliphate of Baghdad. One Umayyad, Abd ar-Rahman I Abd ar-Rahman I, d. 788, first Umayyad emir of Córdoba (756–88). The only survivor of the Abbasid massacre (750) of his family in Damascus, he fled from Syria and eventually went to Spain.
..... Click the link for more information. , escaped the general massacre of his family and fled to Spain; there the emirate of Córdoba was set up in 780. This later became the caliphate of Córdoba, or the Western caliphate, and persisted until 1031. A third competing contemporaneous caliphate was established by the Fatimids Fatimid or Fatimite , dynasty claiming to hold the caliphate on the basis of descent from Fatima, a daughter of Muhammad the Prophet. In doctrine the Fatimids were related to other Shiite sects.
..... Click the link for more information. in Africa, Syria, and Egypt (909–1171). After the fall of Baghdad to the Mongols under Hulagu Khan in 1258, the Abbasids fled to Egypt. The Ottomans captured Egypt in 1517 and Selim I Selim I (Selim the Grim) , 1467–1520, Ottoman sultan (1512–20). He ascended the throne of the Ottoman Empire by forcing the abdication of his father, Beyazid II, and by killing his brothers.
..... Click the link for more information. assumed the title of caliph by questionable right. The Ottoman sultans, however, kept the title until the last sultan, Muhammad VI, was deposed. He was succeeded briefly by a cousin, but in 1924 the caliphate was abolished by Kemal Atatürk Atatürk, Kemal , 1881–1938, Turkish leader, founder of modern Turkey. He took the name in 1934 in place of his earlier name, Mustafa Kemal, when he ordered all Turks to adopt a surname; it is made up of the Turkish words Ata and Türk [father of the
..... Click the link for more information. . A year later Husayn ibn Ali Husayn ibn Ali , 1856–1931, Arab political and religious leader. In 1908 he succeeded as grand sherif of Mecca and thus became ruler of the Hejaz under the Ottoman Empire.
..... Click the link for more information. , king of Arabia, proclaimed himself caliph, but he was forced to abdicate by Ibn Saud Ibn Saud (Abd al-Aziz ibn Saud) , c.1880–1953, founder of Saudi Arabia and its first king. His family, with its regular seat at Riyadh in the Nejd, were the traditional leaders of the ultraorthodox Wahhabi movement in Islam.
..... Click the link for more information. . Subsequently, several pan-Islamic congresses attempted to establish a rightful caliph. A number of Islamist political parties and Islamist guerrilla groups have called for the restoration of the caliphate by uniting, either through peaceful political action or through force, Islamic nations in a transnational state.

The two chief branches of islam are shiite and sunni and the split was brought about by a disagreement about who would be the caliph. One wanted the caliph to be a blood relative of muhammed and the other wanted the caliph to be elected. This shism has been effect for 1400 years and there have been many bloodbaths over that very difference. In present day Bahrain the majority are shiite and object to having a sunni ruler.

Today the Ayatollah is considered the head of the shiite branch of islam and assumes the title, "Supreme Leader." Underneith the caliph is a system of imans. The shiites expect 'the twelfth iman' or 'Mahdi' to reappear any day now and assume control of and unite all islam.

They believe the twelfth iman exists but is hidden by allah from public knowledge.

Interestingly a leading iman in Pakistan has suggested that Barack Hussein Obama declare himself to be the caliph and unite all islam under one tent.

Regardless of what you may think, Obama is widely if not universally thought of in the world of islam to be a muslim.

The sunni caliph ruled the Ottoman empire until deposed by Ataturk in about 1920. Since then the muslim brotherhood has endeavored to restore the caliphate and in Saudi Arabia for instance no major decision is made without obtaining a 'fatwa' from a committee of the chief imans of that country.

Today's prime minister of Turkey, Erdogan, (described by Obama as his personal friend), is advocating for the restoration of the caliphate and has even gone so far as to say that he wouldn't object to having a shiite caliph. (namely the Persian Ayatollah.)

I might mention also that the Catholic Church has two main branches, the Roman and the Eastern Orthodox, with other minor branches such as the Maronites of Lebanon. The Roman branch is the only one that considers the Pope their spiritual leader. Another aspect is that today the Pope doesn't assume temporal power whereas throughout islam their religious rulers either assume temporal power or aspire to do so.

One good challenge deserves another, perhaps you would compare the status of women under islam with that under the Roman Catholic Pope. (or any other Christian sect.)

After some Pakistani imans have condemned Veena Malik for her choice of clothing in public, she seems to be repeating the words of Jesus; "judge not that ye be not judged."

Jesus is considered, if not the Son of God, at least a prophet of God in islam, (and in Jeremiah Wrights pseudo-Christian church of Chicago), so would you say that she has a valid point or not, even in the world of islam??

Yea or Nay??

 

[gsvol]

This is going to be good.

What do you think of this?:

Obama and Emanuel: Members of same gay bath house in Chicago.

Some pretty juicy claims in that link there pal.

 

[therealUT]

You do know that neither the Caliph nor the Ayatollah (of which there are currently multiple) are universally accepted by either the Sunni or the Shia. Regardless of that fact, there still exists no structured and/or unified hierarchy in Islam; no Chain-of-Command; no higher approval or appointment of clerics.

You should reread the article you referenced in an attempt to discredit my position and see that it actually proves me right (especially the final paragraph).

Thanks.
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[hohenfelsvol]

YOU GO GIRL! Pakistani actress rips her Islamic critics a new one Bare Naked Islam

Wonder if she likes pork

 

[gsvol]

You do know that neither the Caliph nor the Ayatollah (of which there are currently multiple) are universally accepted by either the Sunni or the Shia. Regardless of that fact, there still exists no structured and/or unified hierarchy in Islam; no Chain-of-Command; no higher approval or appointment of clerics.

You should reread the article you referenced in an attempt to discredit my position and see that it actually proves me right (especially the final paragraph).

Thanks.
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Thanks to you for yet again sidestepping the issue and failure to answer any honest questions.

The Pope is not universally accepted throughout Christianity either.

In islam, although a caliph may not exist at this time, muslims universally accept that a caliph would be recongnized by all muslims.

In my sect of Christianity (and in many others), the concept of a Pope or even a priest is not recognized as being scriptual according to the Gospel of Christ.

I consider myself a Christian yet feel the Pope has absolutely no authority over me or my spiritual life or physical behavior.

As a matter of fact when I visited the Vatican once the then Pope made an inpromtu appearance, the first in over a half century.

I was the first to spot him and wave back as he proceeded to bless those in attendance.

I was lectured all afternoon about the proper attitude toward the Pope by a companion but never relenquished my position that the Pope put his britches on just like me and was really no different.

Wonder if she likes pork

The general consensus on this board is not so much her taste or lack thereof for pork but wthat what is her attitude about porking??

 

[therealUT]

I like how you are trying to call me out for avoiding your questions of which I have already responded; yet, you continue to try to pervert my responses in order to bolster your opinion.

As for the authority of the Pope in Christianity: the greater majority of Christians (1.2B) consider themselves Roman Catholic (as compared to about 600K Protestants and Orthodox).

For the greater majority of Muslims, there is not an authoritative figurehead, nor a hierarchical structure (not for Sunnis, Shiites, nor Wahabis).

This being the case, lik I said earlier, any media figure with a desire to create a story can interview whom ever they like and refer to that persn as an authoritative figure in Islam.

The same can and does happen with the Protestant Christian community: there exists no hierarchy and thereforeno unified voice. If I want to make Protestants look like a**es, I can interview Pat Roberts and/or Fred Phelps.
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[IPorange]

What do you think of this?:

Obama and Emanuel: Members of same gay bath house in Chicago.

Some pretty juicy claims in that link there pal.

You're a parody of yourself.

 

[gsvol]

I like how you are trying to call me out for avoiding your questions of which I have already responded; yet, you continue to try to pervert my responses in order to bolster your opinion.

As for the authority of the Pope in Christianity: the greater majority of Christians (1.2B) consider themselves Roman Catholic (as compared to about 600K Protestants and Orthodox).

For the greater majority of Muslims, there is not an authoritative figurehead, nor a hierarchical structure (not for Sunnis, Shiites, nor Wahabis).

This being the case, lik I said earlier, any media figure with a desire to create a story can interview whom ever they like and refer to that persn as an authoritative figure in Islam.

The same can and does happen with the Protestant Christian community: there exists no hierarchy and thereforeno unified voice. If I want to make Protestants look like a**es, I can interview Pat Roberts and/or Fred Phelps.
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I ask you about Veena Malik and you talk about the Pope.

I ask you about the status of women in islam and you talk about Catholocism.

Evidently your hated of Christianity keeps you from discussing anything else, especially anything resembling the topic of this thread.

 

[therealUT]

I ask you about Veena Malik and you talk about the Pope.

I ask you about the status of women in islam and you talk about Catholocism.

Evidently your hated of Christianity keeps you from discussing anything else, especially anything resembling the topic of this thread.

Veena Malik's stance is no different than that of many Hollywood starlets in the past couple generations.

The status of women in Islam is dependent upon the sect and the region. Many women in Iran, India, Jordan, Egypt, and America have rights that equal or surpass rights of Christian women.

If you want to point to "arranged marriages", I can tell you from my experiences in both India and Dubai, that many times proposed arrangements are rejected by the woman to no ill effects from the family or community.

It seems to me that all you have ever done is read Islamophobic literature and allowed it to taint your worldview without ever actually stepping into the world. I don't hate Christianity anymore than I hate any other religion. I don't hate religion. I simply feel that most religious followers absurdly allow irrational tenets to pervade their lives and direct their actions and relationships with the world.

The problems you are trying to highlight with Islam are systemic of all religious codes and all religious zealots. The most pathetic aspect of the problem is that it is never based on logic or reason; rarely does it even spring from any actual revelation; it is simply sprung from community (especially the socioeconomic aspects of said community) one is born into.
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[gsvol]

Veena Malik's stance is no different than that of many Hollywood starlets in the past couple generations.

The status of women in Islam is dependent upon the sect and the region. Many women in Iran, India, Jordan, Egypt, and America have rights that equal or surpass rights of Christian women.

If you want to point to "arranged marriages", I can tell you from my experiences in both India and Dubai, that many times proposed arrangements are rejected by the woman to no ill effects from the family or community.

It seems to me that all you have ever done is read Islamophobic literature and allowed it to taint your worldview without ever actually stepping into the world. I don't hate Christianity anymore than I hate any other religion. I don't hate religion. I simply feel that most religious followers absurdly allow irrational tenets to pervade their lives and direct their actions and relationships with the world.

The problems you are trying to highlight with Islam are systemic of all religious codes and all religious zealots. The most pathetic aspect of the problem is that it is never based on logic or reason; rarely does it even spring from any actual revelation; it is simply sprung from community (especially the socioeconomic aspects of said community) one is born into.
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I don't know where you get your information but it is so ignorant as to be delusional for the most part.

 

[CSVol]

I don't know where you get your information but it is so ignorant as to be delusional for the most part.

Looking in the mirror?

 

[gsvol]

Looking in the mirror?

Nope, what I post can be backed up with actual facts.

What he post is a combination of conjecture, flawed analysis leading to absurd conclustions and irrational assumptions that can originate nowhere other than la la land.

 

[therealUT]

Nope, what I post can be backed up with actual facts.

What he post is a combination of conjecture, flawed analysis leading to absurd conclustions and irrational assumptions that can originate nowhere other than la la land.

Citing internet blogs does not equate to reporting facts.
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[BeecherVol]

I like how you are trying to call me out for avoiding your questions of which I have already responded; yet, you continue to try to pervert my responses in order to bolster your opinion.

As for the authority of the Pope in Christianity: the greater majority of Christians (1.2B) consider themselves Roman Catholic (as compared to about 600K Protestants and Orthodox).

For the greater majority of Muslims, there is not an authoritative figurehead, nor a hierarchical structure (not for Sunnis, Shiites, nor Wahabis).

This being the case, lik I said earlier, any media figure with a desire to create a story can interview whom ever they like and refer to that persn as an authoritative figure in Islam.

The same can and does happen with the Protestant Christian community: there exists no hierarchy and thereforeno unified voice. If I want to make Protestants look like a**es, I can interview Pat Roberts and/or Fred Phelps.
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No you can't. Your not lumping all muslims into the terrorist tag are you?

 

[CSVol]

What he post is a combination of conjecture, flawed analysis leading to absurd conclustions and irrational assumptions that can originate nowhere other than la la land.

Looking in the mirr...nevermind.

 

[VOLatile]

No you can't. Your not lumping all muslims into the terrorist tag are you?

You just backed his point...

 

[gsvol]

Citing internet blogs does not equate to reporting facts.
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Making crap up out of thin air is far worse, especially when they are pure fantasy.

FYI there are some very good blogs out there that are far more accurate than CNN, Wapo and the Ny Slimes for instances.

 

[therealUT]

Making crap up out of thin air is far worse, especially when they are pure fantasy.

FYI there are some very good blogs out there that are far more accurate than CNN, Wapo and the Ny Slimes for instances.

I don't make crap up. I go to Islamic nations and speak with a lot of Muslims. I even attended Ashura festivities this past fall.

When I was fighting Islamic radicals, it was easy to generalise all Muslims as violent radicals. My worldview was inundated with combat and sigact reports, in which most everything I read and saw was negative. Recently, when I left the combat zones and started speaking with Muslims not directly impacted with a generation of wafare, my perspective changed drastically.

I suggest you take a trip to Mumbai, Hyderabad, Damascus, and/or Amman.
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