pat Robertson said

[possumslayer]

You need to leave that stuff along. I can see the possum on your back. Man, you are really looking old.

the chimp was getting to heavy...
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[RespectTradition]

I agree and disagree. I think public safety requires certain restrictions based on a risk assessment. We put stop signs up at certain intersections based on a predictable risk. If you run that stop sign you get a fine and potential raise on insurance rates, even if you haven't harmed anyone. I think DUIs should fall under the same category with the only difference being the chance to sleep it off in a safe, secure environment.

I believe that punishing potential is evil.

An old joke illustrates the point:

A husband and wife go on a fishing trip. One morning, before her husband woke up, the wife takes the boat out onto the lake and sits back to read and enjoy nature. A game warden sees her and goes to investigate.

"I need to see your fishing license" he says.

"I don't have it" she replies.

He proceeds to write her a ticket.

She complains, "but I am not fishing, how can you give me a ticket?"

He answers " you have all the equipment there with you in the boat and could start at any time"

She looks and him and thinks for a minute. Then she pulls out her phone and dials 911.

"What are you doing?" he asks.

"Reporting a rape"

"What!?!?!?" he replies, "I never laid a hand on you!"

"So. You have all the equipment there with you in the boat and could start at any time."

 

[PKT_VOL]

That's what I was thinking. Even those developing nations where they have traffic lights, the informal rules outweigh everything. For example, wheel placement in Korea, eye contact in the Philippines, turn signals in Thailand etc often mean more than the traffic lights and signs.

Your point is also applicable to the OP, historic "information" has us brainwashed to the point where we accept spending billions of dollars fighting something that shouldn't be a crime and a large part of our population has no problem equating smoking pot with robbery or assault, at least as far as the judicial consequences are concerned.

I absolutely agree for the most part. My only point of contention would be that I think most people associate weed with "gateway" to "harder" drugs instead of with robbery and assault. Although, once on "harder" drugs, robbery and assault normally follow.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I absolutely agree for the most part. My only point of contention would be that I think most people associate weed with "gateway" to "harder" drugs instead of with robbery and assault. Although, once on "harder" drugs, robbery and assault normally follow.

I think the gateway theory only ties itself to marijuana because it's the cheapest, most common drug you can find.

If cocaine were sold at 15 dollars a gram, it would be the gateway drug.

 

[YorkVol]

I think the gateway theory only ties itself to marijuana because it's the cheapest, most common drug you can find.

If cocaine were sold at 15 dollars a gram, it would be the gateway drug.

It's considered a gateway because of the behaviors you need to do to buy and use without getting caught, imo.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

It's considered a gateway because of the behaviors you need to do to buy and use without getting caught, imo.

Would you mind elaborating on that?

I've always perceived a gateway drug as an introduction of illegal narcotics into one's life that leads them to experiment with harder drugs.

By harder, I mean rarer substances that someone already in a romance with drugs would make the effort to find.

 

[YorkVol]

I believe that punishing potential is evil.

An old joke illustrates the point:

A husband and wife go on a fishing trip. One morning, before her husband woke up, the wife takes the boat out onto the lake and sits back to read and enjoy nature. A game warden sees her and goes to investigate.

"I need to see your fishing license" he says.

"I don't have it" she replies.

He proceeds to write her a ticket.

She complains, "but I am not fishing, how can you give me a ticket?"

He answers " you have all the equipment there with you in the boat and could start at any time"

She looks and him and thinks for a minute. Then she pulls out her phone and dials 911.

"What are you doing?" he asks.

"Reporting a rape"

"What!?!?!?" he replies, "I never laid a hand on you!"

"So. You have all the equipment there with you in the boat and could start at any time."

I get your point, but I think there is a difference between administrative controls and punishment. A DUI check should be an administrative control just like a stop sign, the citation/fine helps pay to maintain the controls.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Would you mind elaborating on that?

I've always perceived a gateway drug as an introduction of illegal narcotics into one's life that leads them to experiment with harder drugs.

By harder, I mean rarer substances that someone already in a romance with drugs would make the effort to find.

I was under the same impression as well.

 

[YorkVol]

Would you mind elaborating on that?

I've always perceived a gateway drug as an introduction of illegal narcotics into one's life that leads them to experiment with harder drugs.

By harder, I mean rarer substances that someone already in a romance with drugs would make the effort to find.

Yeah, it is along those same lines, but the idea is that since marijuana isn't addictive its use alone doesn't lead to harder substance abuse. Instead, the behavior follows a pattern that makes it more acceptable to try other things. At the beginning of the process there are natural inhibitions and other obstacles in place that make it difficult to obtain and use the illegal substance. The inhibitions could be things like the fear of getting caught, a respect for rules, concern over the negative effects on health/mind and a concern over the negative effects on reputation/image. The obstacles include lack of knowledge on where to purchase, lack of a safe place to use the substance and so forth. As a person starts using more often, they find their inhibitions drop as they adapt their behaviors while they also find solutions around the obstacles.

There is an argument that in some families/households where the rules are not as important and there is a general openness to using alcohol or marijuana that you don't see as much use of other substances such as crack, chrystal meth etc. However, in other families where the person who decides to use has to keep it hidden there is more tendency to step into the harder substances. The glamor factor certainly plays a role there as well.

I'm at work so I can't link any empirical data but that is the gist of the theory.

 

[RespectTradition]

The gateway effect in most of my friends that went on to harder stuff worked kinda like this:

1. pot is fun
2. I might get in trouble
3. I have to buy frequently to get good highs, upping my odds of getting caught, or buy more at a time, upping the punishments if I get caught
4. If I buy stronger stuff, I get more highs for fewer buys and more highs in a more portable concealable manner
5. I will buy harder stuff instead

The illegality of pot encouraged my friends to move to harder stuff.