Pictures of Iraq Success

#3
#3
It does show that positive things are and have been happening. Clearly, the only images we see are bad. Some balance (even a little) would be nice.
 
#4
#4
If you based your opinion of the US on what you see in on the local and national news you would also think this is a country at war.
 
#6
#6
Oh yeah there are success stories. But it is the grand scheme of things that affect the short term and long term there. FNC can go in there and show smiling kids and everything all warm and fuzzy but the fact remains that the situation overall is not good.
 
#7
#7
Short term is bad. Long term is better. The pics show contruction, progress in neighborhoods, and other things that are moving in the right direction. These are the right steps for the long term which don't get enough if any airtime.
 
#9
#9
The infrastructure is being built and tools being put into place to function as a country.

Why do think its not? You think they are doomed forever?
 
#10
#10
Well for one when you only get 6 hours of power a day in the capital and we've been working on the power for quite a few years, I'd say that is one sign. If we leave, we are one coup away from having to do this all over again. You have unleashed three groups who hate each other, allowed them to remain armed, and have allowed a pourous border to receive aid from various thugs....etc.

Keep in mind that it is a fraction of the population who is warring here along with those coming in from other nations. We lock down Baghdad other areas flare up. It rotates. That fraction cares less about infrastructure. They will fight and hide and fight again until they are wiped out. As soon as we leave, if we ever do, they will keep fighting and try to topple the government. Those in the government cannot trust each other because of the ethnic differences. So the government itself cannot flourish under this specter of fear and distrust.
 
#11
#11
I believe the insurgency will not last forever. They fight for latest cause vs the West (US). Something else will come up and they'll be blowing themselves up in some other country for Allah. They will always have in-fighting was it won't last forever at the current pace.

The elections and governing with democracy is a new concept and not one that is easily integrated but can work. It won't be overnight but as stated because the cultural and ethic barriers have to be broken. As you mentioned complicating the whole process is the two major ethnic and cultural groups in the country. This process will take at least a generation and maybe two. Progress will be made and these are the first hard steps in the right direction.
 
#13
#13
Said Israel.....50+ years later....

Nice try but like I said, not at the same level of assault as today. There will be morons blowing themselves up from here to tomorrow but not the same level as today in Iraq.

And Israel is also totally different set of circumstances of which the Paletinians/muslims just want to eraticate the Jews altogether.
 
#15
#15
A true change will not happen until the Iraqi people quit being lazy and take ownership of their own country. It's hard for them to realize because they never had to do it with Saddam.

Had a friend that got back recently from his 2nd tour and his job this time was to train police. He said they will not make it b/c they do not want it. His claim is that it would be over in months if they would stand up.

I wonder if this is why some welcome a dictator because it takes no work. Just stay in line and it will all be taken care of for them.
 
#16
#16
Well for one when you only get 6 hours of power a day in the capital and we've been working on the power for quite a few years, I'd say that is one sign. If we leave, we are one coup away from having to do this all over again. You have unleashed three groups who hate each other, allowed them to remain armed, and have allowed a pourous border to receive aid from various thugs....etc.

Keep in mind that it is a fraction of the population who is warring here along with those coming in from other nations. We lock down Baghdad other areas flare up. It rotates. That fraction cares less about infrastructure. They will fight and hide and fight again until they are wiped out. As soon as we leave, if we ever do, they will keep fighting and try to topple the government. Those in the government cannot trust each other because of the ethnic differences. So the government itself cannot flourish under this specter of fear and distrust.
wow, sounds like MSNBC host talking points. You've listened well.
 
#17
#17
Nothing like building things for them to blow up in the future...
 
#21
#21
I wonder if this is why some welcome a dictator because it takes no work. Just stay in line and it will all be taken care of for them.

That's why Saddam should have been left alone. Keep him in check with the all-seeing eye and let him run a tight ship on the nation. Most of these people are for a quiet status quo. So that leaves taming a small 5-10% of various nuts. We can't do that because the other 90-95% see us as occupying.

This is the issue with HANDING freedom to people who did not fight to achieve it themselves. We thought giving people democracy when they did not move to achieve it themselves would work. It's like welfare. We hand someone freedom when they didn't want it, ask for it, or fight for it. They will not do anything to prop it up themselves. They'll sponge off of us.
 
#22
#22
A true change will not happen until the Iraqi people quit being lazy and take ownership of their own country. It's hard for them to realize because they never had to do it with Saddam.

Had a friend that got back recently from his 2nd tour and his job this time was to train police. He said they will not make it b/c they do not want it. His claim is that it would be over in months if they would stand up.

I wonder if this is why some welcome a dictator because it takes no work. Just stay in line and it will all be taken care of for them.

Why does this post make me think of Russia/old USSR?
 
#23
#23
That's why Saddam should have been left alone. Keep him in check with the all-seeing eye and let him run a tight ship on the nation. Most of these people are for a quiet status quo. So that leaves taming a small 5-10% of various nuts. We can't do that because the other 90-95% see us as occupying.

This is the issue with HANDING freedom to people who did not fight to achieve it themselves. We thought giving people democracy when they did not move to achieve it themselves would work. It's like welfare. We hand someone freedom when they didn't want it, ask for it, or fight for it. They will not do anything to prop it up themselves. They'll sponge off of us.

John Stewart had a great Daily Show quote about this topic. He was speaking to a Repubilcan Senator (McCain maybe?), and he said:

I just don't think we would take the same amount of pride in the story of our independence if it went 'and then France arrived to liberate us from our British oppressors'.

-Not an exact quote, but I think I captured the meaning
 
#24
#24
Probably the same amount as the French pride realizing the Americans are the reason they don't speak German. Still doesn't change the fact they were occupied and couldn't repel the Germans on their own. Sometimes its just the right thing to do. Am sure they can over the fact they didn't do it on their own rather then having to show papers everytime they want to take a train to EuroDisney.
 
#25
#25
They actually participated in the process. They were overrun and did in fact fight back. They had a viable underground resistance that actually provided us intel that enabled us to have success in several invasions.

That comparison does not work on Iraq. And "the right thing to do" does not always apply as well. The "right thing to do" got us far in SE Asia. It got us far in the Korean peninsula as well. Considering we're still sitting on a 50+ year cease-fire to work out the end of that war, one wonders if our luck in major conflicts of late is taking a downward spiral.
 

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