PLAYER RANKINGS (do they matter?). Let the debate!

Do you favor consolidating player rating talk into one place? And out of the player threads?

  • Yes

    Votes: 110 68.8%

  • No

    Votes: 50 31.3%
  • Total voters
    160
#151
#151
sjt18 said:
People get too tied up in one recruit much like teenagers get too tied up with one boy/girl. There are others who are just as talented. You just have to find them, sign them, and develop them. I hope this kid signs with the Vols. It would be nice to create a new pipeline into La. But if he goes with Texas then move on to the next guy.

You might argue that there are a few, true elite HS talents each year. That would explain why about 60% of 5* players get drafted. But after that... it gets ALOT more murky. Only about 20% of 4* players get drafted. The plain meaning is that every year there are A LOT of 3* players who are as good or better than a lot of 4*.
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If that is the case, why do we and others get railroaded by Alabama and Georgia every year.
 
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#152
#152
Texas regularly has top 5 classes and goes 7-5 on average. Even lost to Kansas a year ago.

Utah rarely has a class outside the top 30 and is a regular PAC 12 championship contender

LSU signs top 5 classes regularly, went 6-6

Kentucky can’t recruit to save their damn life, won 10 games

Just signing blue chips guarantees you nothing
 
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#153
#153
volbound1700 said:
If that is the case, why do we and others get railroaded by Alabama and Georgia every year.
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Because those at the top of mountain do sign a lot of the TRULY talented regardless of their star ratings after their JR of HS. The ones that get prioritized by the top 30 kind of teams. The ones that are accurately STARRED due to their demonstrated on field performance having already attained the physical development. The 3*'s he is alluding to are those complete their development later and excel at institutions somewhere down the food chain. What other explanation is there for more 3* getting drafted than 4* in most drafts?

Taking the LIMITED no-brainer 5* out of the conversation, Just rechecked the ON3 statistics for the combined last 3 drafts, and how the numbers changed over the last few weeks for these historical periods I don't know, but they currently show 250 4 stars drafted and 470 2&3 stars drafted while passing on 900 4 stars. The point is NOT that the cream of the 4 stars are not talented, but that the balance get passed by service MISSES. It is possible that every one is properly rated based on their bodies of work when the stars are handed out. 3-5 years of development and training change the truth on draft days. Those guys are out there to sign and develop if you are lucky or good. Establishing absolute value and ceilings based on HS stars does not seem wise. They probably do enhance their percentages by using FINAL numbers, not the stars assigned during the majority of the recruitment phase.

Odds are long on 4 stars, even longer on 2&3 stars, but you put players not odds on the field. The draft proves they are out there and out there in quantity. Even the best trained talent evaluators cannot define where athletes are in their development curve. At 17-18 some are maxed out, some are way down the road, but a lot have a ways to go. The numbers seem to show that. Athletes are athletes, gamers are gamers, it is athletic gamers you hope to sign. Athletes with the intangibles are the goal. Stars are given out primarily on the athletic piece, that is easier to see in HS.

Institute a college draft and the distribution of the athletic out of HS would surely be different too. My guess is that NIL rules forthcoming will do some of that IF caps are placed on each team. The noise is already starting.
 
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#154
#154
GUNTERSVOL said:
Because those at the top of mountain do sign a lot of the TRULY talented regardless of their star ratings after their JR of HS. The ones that get prioritized by the top 30 kind of teams. The ones that are accurately STARRED due to their demonstrated on field performance having already attained the physical development. The 3*'s he is alluding to are those complete their development later and excel at institutions somewhere down the food chain. What other explanation is there for more 3* getting drafted than 4* in most drafts?

Taking the LIMITED no-brainer 5* out of the conversation, Just rechecked the ON3 statistics for the combined last 3 drafts, and how the numbers changed over the last few weeks for these historical periods I don't know, but they currently show 250 4 stars drafted and 470 2&3 stars drafted while passing on 900 4 stars. The point is NOT that the cream of the 4 stars are not talented, but that the balance get passed by service MISSES. It is possible that every one is properly rated based on their bodies of work when the stars are handed out. 3-5 years of development and training change the truth on draft days. Those guys are out there to sign and develop if you are lucky or good. Establishing absolute value and ceilings based on HS stars does not seem wise. They probably do enhance their percentages by using FINAL numbers, not the stars assigned during the majority of the recruitment phase.

Odds are long on 4 stars, even longer on 2&3 stars, but you put players not odds on the field. The draft proves they are out there and out there in quantity. Even the best trained talent evaluators cannot define where athletes are in their development curve. At 17-18 some are maxed out, some are way down the road, but a lot have a ways to go. The numbers seem to show that. Athletes are athletes, gamers are gamers, it is athletic gamers you hope to sign. Athletes with the intangibles are the goal. Stars are given out primarily on the athletic piece, that is easier to see in HS.

Institute a college draft and the distribution of the athletic out of HS would surely be different too. My guess is that NIL rules forthcoming will do some of that IF caps are placed on each team. The noise is already starting.
Click to expand...

Look what Saban did in 2007/2008. He was getting those top classes immediately. Same with Kirby Smart.

You need that top talent to win at their level.
 
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#155
#155
VOLUNTEERSZN said:
Texas regularly has top 5 classes and goes 7-5 on average. Even lost to Kansas a year ago.

Utah rarely has a class outside the top 30 and is a regular PAC 12 championship contender

LSU signs top 5 classes regularly, went 6-6

Kentucky can’t recruit to save their damn life, won 10 games

Just signing blue chips guarantees you nothing
Click to expand...

Lol. Utah has won nothing of significance. Neither has Kentucky. LSU won a NC a couple of years ago and fielded what could be the greatest team of all time. Winning 10 games is not an accomplishment.

Again, for the millionth time the teams that win anything of significance have the most blue chip players.
 
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#156
#156
BigOrangeTrain said:
Lol. Utah has won nothing of significance. Neither has Kentucky. LSU won a NC a couple of years ago and fielded what could be the greatest team of all time. Winning 10 games is not an accomplishment.

Again, for the millionth time the teams that win anything of significance have the most blue chip players.
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I still don't understand why people can't see this. I suppose it's the whole wanting to cheer for the underdog thing, or maybe wishful thinking that even though Tennessee keeps finishing in the middle of the pack in recruiting in the SEC that we can still make the playoffs. Likely not gonna happen. Never say never, but still. I will say this though; not all 3 stars are created equal. Take Squirrel White and Dylan Sampson for example from last years class. They both have sprinters speed. That is an elite measurable for sure. Why were they 3 stars then? Because of their size. If White and Sampson were both 6 feet tall and about 200 pounds then they would have been high 4 star players.....like Cam Seldon from this years class who is just as fast but is 6'1 220 pounds. See the difference? That makes him an even harder match-up than the other 2 because he can not only rely on his speed, but he can break tackles too. The other two won't be breaking nearly as many tackles without significant time in the gym. Most 3 stars are a 3 stars for a reason.
 
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#159
#159
VOLSONLY said:
View attachment 480533
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No need we as fans are clearly ok with being middle teir. With all this high praise and talks of Vols opening the check book and Spyre spending over $8million on recruits one would think we have the top raited class but we don't. Maybe we should take a page out of Texas A&M book. They had what, six 5stars, 20 4stars and three 3 stars last year? Something like that
 
#161
#161
Volmac2022 said:
And someone said Florida can't head coach can't recruit look at us middle ish of the pack yet again
View attachment 480502
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What kind of homegrown blue chip 4 stars are they buying? How are they only 7 points ahead of our MISERABLE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD CLASS with all those 3 stars? How are they trailing a team with less 4 stars and more 3 stars? Surprised you did not pick up on that in your supplied graphic. I'll keep our non FL multiple states hand selected by our staff players and be happy about it. It is my SUPOSITION that our staff is using the same criteria for all our recruits, regardless of service rankings. I bet they celebrated both of our last two star diverse commits. These are not post signing day emergency reaches. Those may well be a thing of the past for us and LOTS of schools with ONE TIME and the friendly portal in play.
 
#162
#162
VOLUNTEERSZN said:
Texas regularly has top 5 classes and goes 7-5 on average. Even lost to Kansas a year ago.

Utah rarely has a class outside the top 30 and is a regular PAC 12 championship contender

LSU signs top 5 classes regularly, went 6-6

Kentucky can’t recruit to save their damn life, won 10 games

Just signing blue chips guarantees you nothing
Click to expand...

I agree but I can also guarantee that you won’t win a championship without signing more blue chips than not.
 
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#164
#164
Volmac2022 said:
No need we as fans are clearly ok with being middle teir. With all this high praise and talks of Vols opening the check book and Spyre spending over $8million on recruits one would think we have the top raited class but we don't. Maybe we should take a page out of Texas A&M book. They had what, six 5stars, 20 4stars and three 3 stars last year? Something like that
Click to expand...
 
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#165
#165
GUNTERSVOL said:
What kind of homegrown blue chip 4 stars are they buying? How are they only 7 points ahead of our MISERABLE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD CLASS with all those 3 stars? How are they trailing a team with less 4 stars and more 3 stars? Surprised you did not pick up on that in your supplied graphic. I'll keep our non FL multiple states hand selected by our staff players and be happy about it. It is my SUPOSITION that our staff is using the same criteria for all our recruits, regardless of service rankings. I bet they celebrated both of our last two star diverse commits. These are not post signing day emergency reaches. Those may well be a thing of the past for us and LOTS of schools with ONE TIME and the friendly portal in play.
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They are only ahead because they have far less people "committed" than we do. Didn't think anyone would have to explain that to you. They have far less 3 stars as well. I'm NOT surprised you didn't understand the picture correctly.
 
#170
#170
Volmac2022 said:
They are only ahead because they have far less people "committed" than we do. Didn't think anyone would have to explain that to you. They have far less 3 stars as well. I'm NOT surprised you didn't understand the picture correctly.
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What the heck are you talking about? The graphic above shows both with 20 commits each? The services have far more granularity than just stars and they MUST have a bunch of lower tier 4's. They are behind LSU who must have more top end 4's to have more points with four fewer 4 stars and 3 more three stars in their also 20 commits and still be 13 points ahead of FL. They might have a bunch of those 4 star misses high that get passed by 2 and 3 stars in the draft every year. Per Rivals (cause I can get to the state data for free) they have so far whiffed on top 10 players in FL... with their top 3 being 14,16 and 20. They have a smattering of 4 stars through the 40's, 50's, 60's, all the way to 73. We can each interpret the data I guess.
 
#171
#171
Orange_Crush said:
Clemson won one with more 3 stars than 4-5 stars. I posted the numbers a week or so back.
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2016 they had a 52% BCR.

By 2018 they were at 61%.

Unless you mean their 80s team, which I have no idea of.

The Blue Chip Ratio is undefeated. It is known.
 
#172
#172
Volmac2022 said:
No need we as fans are clearly ok with being middle teir. With all this high praise and talks of Vols opening the check book and Spyre spending over $8million on recruits one would think we have the top raited class but we don't. Maybe we should take a page out of Texas A&M book. They had what, six 5stars, 20 4stars and three 3 stars last year? Something like that
Click to expand...
Yea…..recruiting is not for everyone, may need to take a break. Or sit back and let the coaches do their thing. Enjoy the rebuild
 
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