Poll: Do you wear a mask in stores?

Do you wear a mask in stores?

  • Yes

    Votes: 112 57.4%

  • No

    Votes: 83 42.6%
  • Total voters
    195
  • Poll closed .
#276
#276
ajvol01 said:
If you believe that this is truly the new normal then you’re mistaken.

This is a short-term response to an unknown disease that has been hyped by the media like nothing in my lifetime.

Masks are not here to stay. JMO
Click to expand...
I don't know if I would go that far. I would say that it is 50/50 whether or not this is the new normal.
 
#277
#277
Weezy said:
I'm making a point that we've never wore masks until now, and now it's this clear effective response to a virus. We've never locked down our country, effectively crashing it, for a virus. And this is not WWII. It's a virus, that's mostly taken out those above the median life expectancy.
Click to expand...

Lookit, this is America. You have the right to say things which are not true, the right to speak on topics which you know nothing about. And I have the right to say that is what you are doing.

masks 1918 flu - Bing images

1918 Flu Headlines - Bing images

announcement-closing-public-places-during-flu-pandemic-the-pullman-herald-october-11-1918.jpg
 
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#278
#278
Xxxxxxxx individuals, by that I mean those who are not capable of making progress, are not expected to read this post.

The HARD TRUTH
Copied from a friend:

“From a physician I have worked with for many years Dr Rick Loftus, MD. yesterday, update about Covid-19:

I'm in a hotspot hospital in a hotspot region (Coachella Valley, Inland Empire, CA). We just converted the entire second floor of our hospital to COVID-19 care yesterday, July 1. We have 65 inpatients with COVID-19 in a hospital with 368 beds. It is the same at our other 2 hospitals in the Valley. We spent yesterday deciding the ethical way to divide up limited remdesivir (30 patients' worth) for the hospital patients. My 20 incoming interns for our IM resident were exposed to COVID 2 weeks ago during their computer chart training; apparently 100% of our computer trainers had COVID19. One intern tested positive 7 days later and I insisted we re-test them all again, as there are almost certainly other cases with minimal symptoms. I raided my household and took my entire supply of face shields to the hospital for the residents to wear on their first day, and I paid $1000 of my own money to equip all of my residents with medical-grade face shields. I require all residents to wear a surgical mask or N95 with face shield if they are within 6 feet of another human, patient or coworker.

Roughly 20% of our inpatients die. Only 30% of our ventilated patients survive. (We try to avoid ventilation at all costs. Some people insist on being full code and decompensate despite high flow with face mask, proning, dexamethasone, antibiotics, and a cocktail of famotidine, zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin C, NAC, and melatonin--we throw everything we can at each case, so long as it won't hurt them.)
My administrative assistant, who sits adjacent to the interns, just went home with COVID symptoms. Her test is pending.
In the Southwest, we are experiencing catastrophic exponential growth. I have had multiple families--siblings, parent-child, spouses--admitted with COVID-19. I had a 31 year old come in satting 78% on room air; he had been sequestering himself in his bedroom for a week to avoid infecting his elderly parents, with whom he lived. His sister, the only person he saw outside his immediate household in the 10 days prior to onset of fever, cough, and dyspnea, had also had fevers but had tested "negative" at our other large hospital so he thought it was safe to visit her. (Sigh. The Quest PCR test is about 80% sensitive, we think--it had emergency approval, so sensitivity data was not required. The Cepheid rapid COVID PCR test is 98.5% sensitive but is in short supply due to limited reagent availability.)

I'm glad some of you are sheltered from what unbridled COVID-19 looks like. It's a hell show. This is *July*. What do you think my hospital will look like in winter?...

This is real. Doctors in places with proper public health responses will see few cases in their hospitals--like UCSF--but let me tell you something: The laws of physics and biology don't change. If you're in an unaffected region, an introduction and poor governance and low use of physical distancing and masks will give you an exponential increase in no time flat (i.e. 2-4 weeks). That's pandemic math. And 20% of the population infected needs a hospital. You *will* run out of beds with an unbridled pandemic. There is almost ZERO pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2. There may be some "priming" of T-cell responses due to exposure to other "benign" beta-coronaviruses, but we have no idea if that explains the 20-40% of people who seem to get minimal symptoms. Asymptomatic infected persons, however, can, and do, spread COVID to those who die from it.
By the way: I've seen scary looking CT scans of the lungs that look like terrible interstitial pneumonia in a patient who had ZERO symptoms and SaO2 94% on room air. She came in for palpitations and the intern overnight got a chest CT for cardiac reasons. We didn't know it was COVID until her test came back 36 hours later. So "asymptomatic" does NOT mean "no biological activity." The virus replicates furiously in people who feel fine. Kids can spread this as easily as grown ups, even if they feel okay.
Related: I've talked to two previously healthy patients ages 32 and 44 who are 3 and 4 months, respectively, post their acute COVID. They continue to have cough, nightsweats, fever, fatigue. How many survivors have "post-COVID syndrome"? We don't know. Less than 20% but we're not sure. I've asked my hospital to allow me to establish a post-COVID clinic to care for and study survivors. Both NIH and UW are planning similar efforts based on my dialogues with them. Autopsies show anoxic brain injury in many patients who died of COVID, not to mention microthrombi throughout the lungs and megakaryocytes in massive infiltrations in their hearts and other organs. People get heart failure, lung fibrosis, and permanent kidney injury from COVID-19. This is a disease of the vascular systems, and it can affect any organ, with lungs and kidneys being especially at risk.
In early May, thanks to lockdown, our census of 55 came down to 10 COVID cases, and for a brief moment, I actually had hope that the worst nightmares I had about COVID, as a biohazard virology-trained hospitalist, would not come to pass. Then we re-opened, without test/trace/isolate systems anywhere close to adequate. Eight weeks ago my county decided to make masks "optional," despite 125 doctors begging them not to do that. Now we're worse than we were in April. And it's getting worse every day.

You wanna see if COVID is real? Come walk on my COVID ward with me. It's real. Hearing people talk about it as if it's an exaggeration is, well, rage-inducing, honestly. Denial is the most common reaction to a pandemic. Denial is how the US will wind up with 1.1 million deaths instead of 30,000. I saw AIDS denialists get killed by their belief that HIV "isn't real, it's a pharma conspiracy of the medical industrial complex." Yeah, right, if you say so. I watched patients with those beliefs die.
The hardest part about this is, every new case I treat exposes me. I have assiduous hot zone technique. But no technique is bulletproof. If you keep exposing me to case after case, eventually, the virus will get through my defenses. I'm a 50 year old hypertensive. I don't expect to do well if I get infected. For now, I keep going to work. I'm one of the few pushing forward on COVID clinical trials, basic science, public health messaging, and diagnostic studies at my hospital. I feel a responsibility to keep going. I wake up with nightmares every morning at 4am. But I'm going to keep going for now. I feel very alone a lot of the time. People are not taking this seriously, and it's costing lives. -R
"Everything we do before a pandemic will seem alarmist. Everything we do after a pandemic will seem inadequate. This is the dilemma we face, but it should not stop us from doing what we can to prepare. We need to reach out to everyone with words that inform, but not inflame. We need to encourage everyone to prepare, but not panic." — Michael O. Leavitt, 2007
--
Richard A. Loftus, MD
 
Last edited:
#280
#280
Vol Main said:
are not expected to read this post.

The HARD TRUTH
Copied from a friend:

“From a physician I have worked with for many years Dr Rick Loftus, MD. yesterday, update about Covid-19:

I'm in a hotspot hospital in a hotspot region (Coachella Valley, Inland Empire, CA). We just converted the entire second floor of our hospital to COVID-19 care yesterday, July 1. We have 65 inpatients with COVID-19 in a hospital with 368 beds. It is the same at our other 2 hospitals in the Valley. We spent yesterday deciding the ethical way to divide up limited remdesivir (30 patients' worth) for the hospital patients. My 20 incoming interns for our IM resident were exposed to COVID 2 weeks ago during their computer chart training; apparently 100% of our computer trainers had COVID19. One intern tested positive 7 days later and I insisted we re-test them all again, as there are almost certainly other cases with minimal symptoms. I raided my household and took my entire supply of face shields to the hospital for the residents to wear on their first day, and I paid $1000 of my own money to equip all of my residents with medical-grade face shields. I require all residents to wear a surgical mask or N95 with face shield if they are within 6 feet of another human, patient or coworker.

Roughly 20% of our inpatients die. Only 30% of our ventilated patients survive. (We try to avoid ventilation at all costs. Some people insist on being full code and decompensate despite high flow with face mask, proning, dexamethasone, antibiotics, and a cocktail of famotidine, zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin C, NAC, and melatonin--we throw everything we can at each case, so long as it won't hurt them.)
My administrative assistant, who sits adjacent to the interns, just went home with COVID symptoms. Her test is pending.
In the Southwest, we are experiencing catastrophic exponential growth. I have had multiple families--siblings, parent-child, spouses--admitted with COVID-19. I had a 31 year old come in satting 78% on room air; he had been sequestering himself in his bedroom for a week to avoid infecting his elderly parents, with whom he lived. His sister, the only person he saw outside his immediate household in the 10 days prior to onset of fever, cough, and dyspnea, had also had fevers but had tested "negative" at our other large hospital so he thought it was safe to visit her. (Sigh. The Quest PCR test is about 80% sensitive, we think--it had emergency approval, so sensitivity data was not required. The Cepheid rapid COVID PCR test is 98.5% sensitive but is in short supply due to limited reagent availability.)

I'm glad some of you are sheltered from what unbridled COVID-19 looks like. It's a hell show. This is *July*. What do you think my hospital will look like in winter?...

This is real. Doctors in places with proper public health responses will see few cases in their hospitals--like UCSF--but let me tell you something: The laws of physics and biology don't change. If you're in an unaffected region, an introduction and poor governance and low use of physical distancing and masks will give you an exponential increase in no time flat (i.e. 2-4 weeks). That's pandemic math. And 20% of the population infected needs a hospital. You *will* run out of beds with an unbridled pandemic. There is almost ZERO pre-existing immunity to SARS-CoV-2. There may be some "priming" of T-cell responses due to exposure to other "benign" beta-coronaviruses, but we have no idea if that explains the 20-40% of people who seem to get minimal symptoms. Asymptomatic infected persons, however, can, and do, spread COVID to those who die from it.
By the way: I've seen scary looking CT scans of the lungs that look like terrible interstitial pneumonia in a patient who had ZERO symptoms and SaO2 94% on room air. She came in for palpitations and the intern overnight got a chest CT for cardiac reasons. We didn't know it was COVID until her test came back 36 hours later. So "asymptomatic" does NOT mean "no biological activity." The virus replicates furiously in people who feel fine. Kids can spread this as easily as grown ups, even if they feel okay.
Related: I've talked to two previously healthy patients ages 32 and 44 who are 3 and 4 months, respectively, post their acute COVID. They continue to have cough, nightsweats, fever, fatigue. How many survivors have "post-COVID syndrome"? We don't know. Less than 20% but we're not sure. I've asked my hospital to allow me to establish a post-COVID clinic to care for and study survivors. Both NIH and UW are planning similar efforts based on my dialogues with them. Autopsies show anoxic brain injury in many patients who died of COVID, not to mention microthrombi throughout the lungs and megakaryocytes in massive infiltrations in their hearts and other organs. People get heart failure, lung fibrosis, and permanent kidney injury from COVID-19. This is a disease of the vascular systems, and it can affect any organ, with lungs and kidneys being especially at risk.
In early May, thanks to lockdown, our census of 55 came down to 10 COVID cases, and for a brief moment, I actually had hope that the worst nightmares I had about COVID, as a biohazard virology-trained hospitalist, would not come to pass. Then we re-opened, without test/trace/isolate systems anywhere close to adequate. Eight weeks ago my county decided to make masks "optional," despite 125 doctors begging them not to do that. Now we're worse than we were in April. And it's getting worse every day.

You wanna see if COVID is real? Come walk on my COVID ward with me. It's real. Hearing people talk about it as if it's an exaggeration is, well, rage-inducing, honestly. Denial is the most common reaction to a pandemic. Denial is how the US will wind up with 1.1 million deaths instead of 30,000. I saw AIDS denialists get killed by their belief that HIV "isn't real, it's a pharma conspiracy of the medical industrial complex." Yeah, right, if you say so. I watched patients with those beliefs die.
The hardest part about this is, every new case I treat exposes me. I have assiduous hot zone technique. But no technique is bulletproof. If you keep exposing me to case after case, eventually, the virus will get through my defenses. I'm a 50 year old hypertensive. I don't expect to do well if I get infected. For now, I keep going to work. I'm one of the few pushing forward on COVID clinical trials, basic science, public health messaging, and diagnostic studies at my hospital. I feel a responsibility to keep going. I wake up with nightmares every morning at 4am. But I'm going to keep going for now. I feel very alone a lot of the time. People are not taking this seriously, and it's costing lives. -R
"Everything we do before a pandemic will seem alarmist. Everything we do after a pandemic will seem inadequate. This is the dilemma we face, but it should not stop us from doing what we can to prepare. We need to reach out to everyone with words that inform, but not inflame. We need to encourage everyone to prepare, but not panic." — Michael O. Leavitt, 2007
--
Richard A. Loftus, MD
Click to expand...

I just got through reading his twitter , I need a shower to get the progressivism off me . Don’t have a clue about his report I do know he’s comes across as a pompous Dik .

ACF5FF97-867A-4DC7-93CD-92440CC1DD2E.jpeg66F04EF3-A701-4297-AAB5-4B3AFB404EB5.jpeg
 
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#282
#282
Sigh. The Quest PCR test is about 80% sensitive, we think--it had emergency approval, so sensitivity data was not required.
Click to expand...

Complete BS. PCR would never have a sensitivity that low. That's the beauty of the amplification technique. It only takes a tiny amount in a sample to be detected. That statement makes the whole quote bogus.

https://www.fda.gov/media/136231/download
 
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#283
#283
"Our results clearly show that airborne transmission via respiratory aerosols represents the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19. By analyzing the pandemic trends without face-covering using the statistical method and by projecting the trend, we calculated that over 66,000 infections were prevented by using a face mask in little over a month in New York City. We conclude that wearing a face mask in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent inter-human transmission. This inexpensive practice, in conjunction with social distancing and other procedures, is the most likely opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic. Our work also highlights that sound science is essential in decision-making for the current and future public health pandemics."
Renyi Zhang, Texas A&M Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Sciences and the Harold J. Haynes Chair in the College of Geosciences

Using a face mask reduces the spread of COVID-19 infections
 
#285
#285
larjoranj said:
Aren't really THAT helpful? So they do help SOME?
Click to expand...
That would be correct. They may help slow the spread. That doesn't eliminate the spread. Until herd immunity is achieved, or a vaccine is developed, we will continue to see it spread. It's not simply going to go away. My call out was for being overly dramatic and calling people "the enemy". That's just dumb.
 
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#286
#286
0nelilreb said:
I just got through reading his twitter , I need a shower to get the progressivism off me . Don’t have a clue about his report I do know he’s comes across as a pompous Dik .

View attachment 290815View attachment 290816
Click to expand...

"Progressive" is a person who makes progress.

This is a definition of a word, an antonym of progressive. Can we still define words on VN? This is America. Can we define words in America? "Retarded" is a person who is not capable of making progress.
 
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#287
#287
Vol Main said:
"Progressive" is a person who makes progress.

This is a definition of a word, an antonym of progressive. Can we still define words on VN? This is America. Can we define words in America? "Retarded" is a person who is not capable of making progress.
Click to expand...

Sorry I left out the liberal part . So not necessarily.
 
#289
#289
Rasputin_Vol said:
I don't know if I would go that far. I would say that it is 50/50 whether or not this is the new normal.
Click to expand...
You think people will choose to go along with wearing masks as a permanent part of their daily life?

50/50 sounds about like the percentage of people that might consider doing that.
 
#294
#294
In that video he says a reason not to wear masks is because they tend to make people touch their face, scratch their nose, adjust the mask. That's a horse crap reason for not wearing a mask. How many times in the first month of the virus did you read an article or hear a news story about how the average person touches their face 20 times an hour without realizing it and the main things you could do to prevent catching it was wash your hands often, for at least 20 seconds, and don't touch your face. Well, if you can discipline yourself to not touch your face while not wearing a mask you can do the same while wearing a mask. My nose will occasionally itch while I'm wearing my mask. If there was not a pandemic I'd reach up there and scratch it but I have no problem letting it itch til it goes away or til I get home and wash my hands. If your balls itch and you're in your living room you probably scratch them. If you're in church you probably wait til you get in the car. If you're wearing your mask leave it alone until you're ready to take it off. Don't most people have that much impulse control? Or do I give them too much credit?
 
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#295
#295
larjoranj said:
In that video he says a reason not to wear masks is because they tend to make people touch their face, scratch their nose, adjust the mask. That's a horse crap reason for not wearing a mask. How many times in the first month of the virus did you read an article or hear a news story about how the average person touches their face 20 times an hour without realizing it and the main things you could do to prevent catching it was wash your hands often, for at least 20 seconds, and don't touch your face. Well, if you can discipline yourself to not touch your face while not wearing a mask you can do the same while wearing a mask. My nose will occasionally itch while I'm wearing my mask. If there was not a pandemic I'd reach up there and scratch it but I have no problem letting it itch til it goes away or til I get home and wash my hands. If your balls itch and you're in your living room you probably scratch them. If you're in church you probably wait til you get in the car. If you're wearing your mask leave it alone until you're ready to take it off. Don't most people have that much impulse control? Or do I give them too much credit?
Click to expand...

If my balls itch, I'm gonna scratch them. I dont care where I'm at.
 
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#298
#298
larjoranj said:
If your balls itch and you're in your living room you probably scratch them. If you're in church you probably wait til you get in the car. If you're wearing your mask leave it alone until you're ready to take it off. Don't most people have that much impulse control? Or do I give them too much credit?
Click to expand...

Obviously not.
 
#299
#299
Rasputin_Vol said:
You should look at some of these office coffee pots/coffee makers.
Click to expand...
Thats why I only bring bottled water to drink when actually at work. I then saw the cleaning lady walk out of the bathroom and wipe down the microwave with the same rag she used in there..so now I only bring cold food for lunch.
 
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