Potential Redshirt for Moore...

#5
#5
It would now have to be a medical determination by the NCAA as she has played a few minutes in a couple of games. I guess if she can't go anymore they would approve it.
 
#6
#6
This story is misleading: Warlick did not suggest that Moore might be a candidate for a medical redshirt; Fleser asked her if it was a possibility, and Warlick seemed a bit surprised by the question and said the idea had not been discussed. I'd like to see Fleser sit down with Warlick and ask her why the offense has been so consistently bad for so long--years. Why the turnover problem year after year; why the poor passing and poor assist numbers--year after year. Why the poor shooting--year after year. Of course we wouldn't get any real insight or analysis from the coach; she'd just hem and haw and purse her lips and muddle her way through a couple of answers as she normally does in response to most questions.
 
#7
#7
armchair said:
This story is misleading: Warlick did not suggest that Moore might be a candidate for a medical redshirt; Fleser asked her if it was a possibility, and Warlick seemed a bit surprised by the question and said the idea had not been discussed. I'd like to see Fleser sit down with Warlick and ask her why the offense has been so consistently bad for so long--years. Why the turnover problem year after year; why the poor passing and poor assist numbers--year after year. Why the poor shooting--year after year. Of course we wouldn't get any real insight or analysis from the coach; she'd just hem and haw and purse her lips and muddle her way through a couple of answers as she normally does in response to most questions.
Click to expand...

Holly's teams her first 2 years averaged more points and higher FG% than Tennessee's last 2 championship teams. The championship teams averaged 0.75 more assists (no doubt helped by having CP3 to catch the ball and finish) and 0.3 fewer turnovers.

Last year, they took a dip in FG% with their best player out half of the season, but still scored a respectable 71 ppg and had averaged fewer turnovers than the championship teams.

Having said that, there's no excuse for the sh!t numbers this year. If anything, this year's numbers are aberrations, not the norm for Holly...made even more perplexing by how much talent is on the team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#8
#8
Amb3096 said:
Holly's teams her first 2 years averaged more points and higher FG% than Tennessee's last 2 championship teams. The championship teams averaged 0.75 more assists (no doubt helped by having CP3 to catch the ball and finish) and 0.3 fewer turnovers.

Last year, they took a dip in FG% with their best player out half of the season, but still scored a respectable 71 ppg and had averaged fewer turnovers than the championship teams.

Having said that, there's no excuse for the sh!t numbers this year. If anything, this year's numbers are aberrations, not the norm for Holly...made even more perplexing by how much talent is on the team.
Click to expand...

what our shooting percentage was on those championship teams? We haven't been a good /outside/ shooting team in forever. If the Vols have a fairly good shooting percentage, it is usually because of the offensive rebounds and putbacks. We don't dominate the boards as we did back in our heyday--nobody does. That is why you have to shoot fairly well nowadays. That really is the strength of good teams--their passing and shooting-while we're still in the mode of throw it up and try to get the the rebound. Last year Burdick had a big year with her spot-up shooting--you need players like that. This year we really don't have anybody. It's a problem--and three-point shooting is also a problem. It is demonstrably harder to win if you aren't making at least, say, three threes every game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#9
#9
armchair said:
what our shooting percentage was on those championship teams? We haven't been a good /outside/ shooting team in forever. If the Vols have a fairly good shooting percentage, it is usually because of the offensive rebounds and putbacks. We don't dominate the boards as we did back in our heyday--nobody does. That is why you have to shoot fairly well nowadays. That really is the strength of good teams--their passing and shooting-while we're still in the mode of throw it up and try to get the the rebound. Last year Burdick had a big year with her spot-up shooting--you need players like that. This year we really don't have anybody. It's a problem--and three-point shooting is also a problem. It is demonstrably harder to win if you aren't making at least, say, three threes every game.
Click to expand...

I have watched the Lady Vols for years and it has had some three point shooters,but the offense has, and is, been the inside game. That type of offense will not work unless you have an outside game. We have ladies on this team who were good outside shooters but not now. Good teams will simply go with a zone. Unless we figure out some type of inside game we will have a tough time beating USC, A&M, UK, Mississippi, Missouri and just maybe Georgia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#12
#12
armchair said:
what our shooting percentage was on those championship teams? We haven't been a good /outside/ shooting team in forever. If the Vols have a fairly good shooting percentage, it is usually because of the offensive rebounds and putbacks. We don't dominate the boards as we did back in our heyday--nobody does. That is why you have to shoot fairly well nowadays. That really is the strength of good teams--their passing and shooting-while we're still in the mode of throw it up and try to get the the rebound. Last year Burdick had a big year with her spot-up shooting--you need players like that. This year we really don't have anybody. It's a problem--and three-point shooting is also a problem. It is demonstrably harder to win if you aren't making at least, say, three threes every game.
Click to expand...

2007 Championship Team: 76.7 ppg, 45%FG, 37%3FG
2008 Championship Team: 73.4 ppg, 44%FG, 36%3FG
2013 Holly Year #1: 77.6 ppg, 45%FG, 36%3FG
2014 Holly Year #2: 77.9 ppg, 46%FG, 36%3FG
2015 Holly Year #3: 71.3 ppg, 43%FG, 34%3FG

Holly's first 2 years weren't bad, statistically speaking. It helped that she had at least 2 reliable outside shooters (some combination of Simmons, Spani and Massengale) on each of the teams, plus a steady inside anchor of Graves and Harrison.

This year, she doesn't have a reliable inside presence and has no proven outside shooter. The guards are all crap comparatively speaking. This is the worst set of guards that I've ever seen on a Tennessee team, and the two returning starters wouldn't have started for Stetson. They are mediocrity personified.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#13
#13
Darth_Vol said:
It isn't an aberration at all, it's a clear trend....
Click to expand...

What's the trend? The offensive production looked fine her first two years...at least when compared to historic Tennessee teams (including the aforementioned last 2 championship teams).
 
#14
#14
A year off in the weight room, that recruiting miss this year, (iguess) and return a veteran with a lil more size and or physicality in the paint, can play 4 or 5. I like her game, just wished the coaches liked her game more. Sometime, your post player has to take that ass whooping in the paint in order to get better.

Nia get well, next year, lol let's see what a year off does to your game cos she plays no softer than Russell at this point.

She knows our system, this would be a win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#15
#15
Pat4life said:
A year off in the weight room, that recruiting miss this year, (iguess) and return a veteran with a lil more size and or physicality in the paint, can play 4 or 5. I like her game, just wished the coaches liked her game more. Sometime, your post player has to take that ass whooping in the paint in order to get better.

Nia get well, next year, lol let's see what a year off does to your game cos she plays no softer than Russell at this point.

She knows our system, this would be a win.
Click to expand...
I think redshirt is pretty much their intention. Last night at halftime when they were shooting two balls got hung up in the net. It was Nia who jumped up to the net and got them loose. If her ribs were that sore would she do that? Just saying....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#16
#16
Amb3096 said:
What's the trend? The offensive production looked fine her first two years...at least when compared to historic Tennessee teams (including the aforementioned last 2 championship teams).
Click to expand...

And how does offensive production look in the last year and a half? Since you are keen on comparing stats with former teams, let me put it in perspective for you. Last year's shooting percentage was the third worst in program history. Scoring average was the fourth worst in program history. This year? Even worse. This team could very well set the record for offensive futility. And I'm sure there's no correlation in the fact that she took over a roster assembled by Pat, and the offensive numbers have gradually gone to hell as she has brought in "her players" and installed "her system."

There is a clear trend, and not a good one....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#17
#17
Darth_Vol said:
And how does offensive production look in the last year and a half? Since you are keen on comparing stats with former teams, let me put it in perspective for you. Last year's shooting percentage was the third worst in program history. Scoring average was the fourth worst in program history. This year? Even worse. This team could very well set the record for offensive futility. And I'm sure there's no correlation in the fact that she took over a roster assembled by Pat, and the offensive numbers have gradually gone to hell as she has brought in "her players" and installed "her system."

There is a clear trend, and not a good one....
Click to expand...

I already discussed the last year and a half, particularly their inefficiencies this year...which is far below what Holly's team accomplished her first two years.

If there was a trend, then the numbers would have gone down as soon as Holly took over. Her first two years, Tennessee scored more PPG than all but 2 teams over the last decade...including the 2 NC teams.

I don't consider Holly to be a particularly good coach, and I doubt she would be able to get a HC job with a major program should she leave Tennessee. However, her teams her first two seasons were pretty good, and the offense didn't look nearly as ragged as they did this year and parts of last year. Part of it is Holly's antiquated coaching scheme, which she plagiarized wholesale from CPS without adjustment; the other part is they recruited a bunch of scrub guards that wouldn't start for most other teams.
 
#18
#18
Amb3096 said:
If there was a trend,
Click to expand...

13-14 .457% 77.9 pts
14-15 .425% 71.3 pts
15-16 .416% 66 pts

If you can't see a clear trend, I don't know what else to tell you.


Amb3096 said:
Part of it is Holly's antiquated coaching scheme, which she plagiarized wholesale from CPS without adjustment; the other part is they recruited a bunch of scrub guards that wouldn't start for most other teams.
Click to expand...

I agree. Like I said, the first couple of seasons were more a product of what Pat left behind. These last couple of seasons, with her players and her system, are far more indicative of who and what she is as a coach....
 
#19
#19
Darth_Vol said:
13-14 .457% 77.9 pts
14-15 .425% 71.3 pts
15-16 .416% 66 pts

If you can't see a clear trend, I don't know what else to tell you.
Click to expand...

You need to learn how to quote. My quote was "If there was a trend, then the numbers would have gone down as soon as Holly took over"

THis is supported by the two data points you conveniently left out.

2011-12 - 43.7% 74.0 pts
2012-13 - 44.9% 77.6 pts

If you can't see that Holly improved FG% and ppg her first season...and then improved both again further her second year before her dip last year, I don't know what else to tell you.

Darth_Vol said:
I agree. Like I said, the first couple of seasons were more a product of what Pat left behind. These last couple of seasons, with her players and her system, are far more indicative of who and what she is as a coach....
Click to expand...

I think recruiting has been a bigger issue than her mediocre coaching. I still can't get over how subpar the guards are...
 
Last edited:
#20
#20
Amb3096 said:
THis is supported by the two data points you conveniently left out.
Click to expand...

I left out 11-12 because Holly wasn't the coach. Here is Holly's full list if it makes you feel better. Her first couple of seasons were nearly identical (and I don't disagree they were good) and if you want to argue improvement it was clearly minimal. The decline since then is far more significant and the trend is pretty scary, especially since these "scrub guards" aren't going anywhere.....

12-13 .449% 77.6 pts
13-14 .457% 77.9 pts
14-15 .425% 71.3 pts
15-16 .416% 66 pts
 
#21
#21
Ladyvolfan4ever said:
I think redshirt is pretty much their intention. Last night at halftime when they were shooting two balls got hung up in the net. It was Nia who jumped up to the net and got them loose. If her ribs were that sore would she do that? Just saying....
Click to expand...

Nice. Yeah, I figure it would be her and/or Nared, Jones getting hurt messed things up. Yeah, I would love to see her and Russell on the court together. She has to get tough, but hey that's all our ladies.
 
#22
#22
Darth_Vol said:
I left out 11-12 because Holly wasn't the coach. Here is Holly's full list if it makes you feel better. Her first couple of seasons were nearly identical (and I don't disagree they were good) and if you want to argue improvement it was clearly minimal. The decline since then is far more significant and the trend is pretty scary, especially since these "scrub guards" aren't going anywhere.....

12-13 .449% 77.6 pts
13-14 .457% 77.9 pts
14-15 .425% 71.3 pts
15-16 .416% 66 pts
Click to expand...

11-12 is relevant because Holly improved on those numbers. If the improvement from 11-12 to 12-13 was "minimal", the same could be said about the decrease from 11-12 to 14-15.

But we both agree that they are currently a hot mess right now. The silver lining is that eventually, Reynolds and Carter will graduate...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#25
#25
Amb3096 said:
11-12 is relevant because Holly improved on those numbers
Click to expand...

I don't see much relevance at all. You are well aware 11-12 was very much a transitional year where the bench coaching was handicapped for a variety of reasons. But if it makes you feel better about Holly, knock yourself out.

Amb3096 said:
The silver lining is that eventually, Reynolds and Carter will graduate...
Click to expand...

And then what? It's not like great guards (or ANYONE) are lining up to take their place...
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top