President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#13,852
#13,852
luthervol said:
Most every poster who supports trump now has a more positive view of Putin and less positive view of Zelensky than they did 6 months ago.
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100% disagree. The same anti Ukraine support folks are here. They are loud right now. Not surprising. They always supported Trump. I can't name a single poster whose gone from "let's help Ukraine" to "nah" bc of Trump
 
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#13,855
#13,855
luthervol said:
Seriously?
Here's a question for all trump supporters.

You have 100 points to assign between Putin and Zelensky based on how responsible they are for the current conflict, how do you divided the points?
I'll go first:
Putin - 95
Zelensky - 5
Click to expand...
Not a Trump supporter, and I'll modify the game, but here I go:

Putin - 85%
Obama - 10%
Bush - 5%
 
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#13,857
#13,857
lawgator1 said:
No one is pro-war. But neither should we be pro-Putin.
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You still haven't named an alternative plan that Democrats or European leaders have come up with To end the war? Also you obviously have no idea how to negotiate with an enemy. Trump has openly stated that if he said very mean things about Putin then asked him to negotiate peace it would be impossible. It amazes me how ignorant Democrats are to this strategy. Biden tried the fake tough guy act and it got us no closer to ending the war and has led to mass death and massive amounts of American taxpayer money being spent.
 
#13,859
#13,859
luthervol said:
Seriously?
Here's a question for all trump supporters.

You have 100 points to assign between Putin and Zelensky based on how responsible they are for the current conflict, how do you divided the points?
I'll go first:
Putin - 95
Zelensky - 5
Click to expand...
Before everyone answers, they need to be able to check their answers against the actual, objectively true answer. What page is that on?
 
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#13,860
#13,860
luthervol said:
Most every poster who supports trump now has a more positive view of Putin and less positive view of Zelensky than they did 6 months ago.
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That’s not accurate we’ve always known Russia was corrupt, and we’ve always known Ukraine was corrupt. Just your party needs a boogie man and a villain to continue its mission to divide.
 
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#13,863
#13,863
luthervol said:
It obviously depends on the terms of ending the war.
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So state the plan that you have heard from Democrats or European leaders that is going to end the war? What terms have they stated that will motivate both sides to negotiate for peace? If Russia disagrees with the terms are you for continuing to give Ukraine billions and watch more mass death?
 
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#13,865
#13,865
TheDirector said:
So state the plan that you have heard from Democrats or European leaders that is going to end the war? What terms have they stated that will motivate both sides to negotiate for peace? If Russia disagrees with the terms are you for continuing to give Ukraine billions and watch more mass death?
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I have no idea what plan would be agreeable to both sides.
If Russia disagrees with the terms, then I would be for reworking the terms. If there are no terms that would be acceptable to both sides, then I would be for continued support.
 
#13,867
#13,867
luthervol said:
I'm not sure why anyone would be reluctant to offer their opinion.
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I'm not sure why anyone would, unless the question had some sort of objective underpinning, as opposed to just and emotion-getter.

Either you have an objectively true answer, with supporting proof, or you are just arguing from emotion. And why would anyone want to participate in an emotional comparison with you?

Personally, I believe the deep state bears the vastly greatest responsibility by overthrowing a pretty neutral, anti-war regime in Ukraine--the buffer between Russia and NATO--and then poking the hornets' nest for decades. So, the deep state would probably get FAR more responsibility than either Putin or Z.

Note that I believed that before Trump decided to try to mediate the end of the war.

Now, either you have a much better view of reality, and can document it here as proof against the opinions others will have developed, or you just want to claim that your opinions are better than our opinions.

So, if you'd like to document the past 30 years of the conflict, shoot. Otherwise... What?

So, again. What page is the definitive, objectively true answer on? It's a stupid game to ask us to compare opinions, merely so you can support a unsupported claim that Trump is somehow programming people to support Putin.
 
#13,869
#13,869
volfanhill said:
I'm checking here for intellectual honesty. Did you view then, or now, Obama to have betrayed us when he did relatively nothing in response to Putin invading Ukraine under his watch?
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Right. Even this is ignoring the elephant in the room...that WE started the war in Ukraine intentionally. Rather, DEMOCRATS started the war in Ukraine intentionally...so they could enrich themselves, launder money, and make Billions for their owners in the MIC. Every single president and administration since the 1991 Reagan/Gorbachev agreement has KNOWN that for Ukraine to enter NATO would never, ever be tolerated by Russia. Just like we would never tolerate Canada or Mexico joining a mutual defense alliance with China and Russia and stockpiling weapons right on OUR border. Every single president knows that Ukraine is the line in the sand. Russia and Putin have always said so plainly to make sure there was no confusion.

The actual deal which Reagan agreed to stated that NATO would NOT expand eastward after 1991. We broke that promise over and over. Some 10 countries in Russias region have since joined. Ukraine is different though. Much larger nation containing the only port Russias navy can use on the Black Sea. They were never gonna let Ukraine join the West entirely...even if it meant WW3. Everyone knew this worldwide. The Democrats under Obama disregarded this which lead to the 2014 invasion by Russia. Then they doubled down on it under Biden (Obamas 3rd term) talking again of Ukraine in NATO, and Russia invaded again. This war and the million or so dead men are 100% the fault of Obama, Nuland, and the rest of the Democrats. All so they could get richer. Absolutely shameful.
 
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#13,870
#13,870
Orange_Crush said:
I'm not sure why anyone would, unless the question had some sort of objective underpinning, as opposed to just and emotion-getter.

Either you have an objectively true answer, with supporting proof, or you are just arguing from emotion. And why would anyone want to participate in an emotional comparison with you?

Personally, I believe the deep state bears the vastly greatest responsibility by overthrowing a pretty neutral, anti-war regime in Ukraine--the buffer between Russia and NATO--and then poking the hornets' nest for decades. So, the deep state would probably get FAR more responsibility than either Putin or Z.

Note that I believed that before Trump decided to try to mediate the end of the war.

Now, either you have a much better view of reality, and can document it here as proof against the opinions others will have developed, or you just want to claim that your opinions are better than our opinions.

So, if you'd like to document the past 30 years of the conflict, shoot. Otherwise... What?

So, again. What page is the definitive, objectively true answer on? It's a stupid game to ask us to compare opinions, merely so you can support a unsupported claim that Trump is somehow programming people to support Putin.
Click to expand...
I'm just curious if anyone would admit to having changed their opinions at least a little over the past year.

I thought the question would possibly lead the conversation in that direction.
 
#13,872
#13,872


So, the UK just *agreed to become what Trump says the US no longer will be--the mouthpiece and tax burden of a military industrial complex, prolonging unwinnable wars to make money making/selling/buying weapons.

Note how he sold it: They'll buy weapons that we make, creating jobs for our citizens... (Wake up, people!)

* He's not agreeing to, by the way. Listen again. He says they've agreed, so that next they can present this to the US as a partner. They are just trying to make sure we're still willing to fund it all.
 
#13,873
#13,873
lawgator1 said:
It's true. And I am confident many in the GOP secretly agree with me. They are just afraid to say so.

When the tide turns --and it will-- the backlash is going to be thunderous.
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This is fixing the backlash, so yes it’s thunderous based on the whining by the left that we have an elected politician exposing the bureaucracy in Washington. It’s obvious by those who are upset in wanting peace in Ukraine.
 
#13,875
#13,875
luthervol said:
I'm just curious if anyone would admit to having changed their opinions at least a little over the past year.

I thought the question would possibly lead the conversation in that direction.
Click to expand...
There's my point. You are trying to make people feel guilty for having an opinion that differs from an "everything is relative; there is no true truth" kind of guy's opinion. They probably realize how absolutely idiotic the exercise is, even if you don't.

Again: Tell us the objectively true answer, or all you're doing is begging people to defend your ridiculous claims/assertions/post.
 
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