Pro-Fulmer vs Anti-Fulmer

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#1
volmanjr

volmanjr

Just Living the Good Life!
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#1
This whole Fulmer sucks vs No he doesn't thing is not all black and white people. I for one am not ready for CPF's head to be served up on a platter. However, I do think he made some stupid mistakes that helped lead us down the dismal path known as the 2005 season. Not having a starter at QB was the # 1 problem and it was the pandora's box, once that lid was left open there was know way to get all the little demons back under lock and key. I also have problems with his handling of discipline. He slipped from a stern but understanding father figure type coach to a coddling "everything will be alright if I just love em" father figure.

As I have said before with what he has contributed to UT over his career, I am willing give the man a chance to make thing right. What will be good enough? I don't really know, I'm gonna take that a game at a time. Losing a game because the other team just simply outplays us or has more talent is one thing , losing because of stupid penalties and turnovers will be a differnt story. :ninja:
 
#2
#2
(volmanjr @ Jan 7 said:
This whole Fulmer sucks vs No he doesn't thing is not all black and white people. I for one am not ready for CPF's head to be served up on a platter. However, I do think he made some stupid mistakes that helped lead us down the dismal path known as the 2005 season. Not having a starter at QB was the # 1 problem and it was the pandora's box, once that lid was left open there was know way to get all the little demons back under lock and key. I also have problems with his handling of discipline. He slipped from a stern but understanding father figure type coach to a coddling "everything will be alright if I just love em" father figure.

As I have said before with what he has contributed to UT over his career, I am willing give the man a chance to make thing right. What will be good enough? I don't really know, I'm gonna take that a game at a time. Losing a game because the other team just simply outplays us or has more talent is one thing , losing because of stupid penalties and turnovers will be a differnt story. :ninja:
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volmanjr. do u honestly believe this site needs another fulmer thread. When it comes right down to it, our opinions dont mean a hill of beans. How i feel about fulmer and how u or anybody else feels about him doensnt mean anything either. We are all just a bunch of disgruntled vol fans that watched our team go through the most disappointing and embarrassing season that i can ever remember. It was obvious that our coaching staff could not fix the problem or for that matter even figure out what the problem was. The worst part of the whole deal is now we are losing players because of this mess. Some of the juniors arent coming back, and we arent getting the committments from high schoolers like we are accustomed too. People are saying that this is just a one year downer, and i hope it is, but it might take several years to correct the problems that have been troubling this team for several years. U know i dont care much for fulmer and thats ok, but i will say this he his our coach next year and i hope he can turn it around, not for his sake but for the program itself.
 
#3
#3
There is another perspective it would be beneficial for us to recognize, and that is things change rapidly and don't always pan out like you expect. Last year, maybe a month from right now, we were on cloud 9. We had finished an overachieving 10 win season, played for the SECC, destroyed a name program in a bowl game, and landed arguably the #1 recruiting class in the nation. Fulmer seemed to be invigorated and not playing as close to the vest as in the past (starting FR quarterbacks). We had all kinds of talent returning, and stars bypassing the NFL to come back. Publications were picking us as high as #2 and to be USC's opponent in the Rose Bowl.

We all know what happened.

My point is that right now, there is a lot of doom and gloom in the Volnation. We had a grossly underachieving offense and special teams, poor coaching, discipline problems and lackluster enthusiasm from the fans, team and staff. We've lost a lot of talent to the NFL, and it appears our recruiting class is shaping up to be one of the worst in years. All of these signs point towards a disappointing future.

It is very plausible that these low expectations will be greatly exceeded, as proven in the inverse by the past year. We still have the resources and talent to make a return to national prominence in 2006. Will we, who knows, but there is reason to be optimistic that we will be surprised by the 2006 season as we were in 2005, but this time in a positive instead of negative fashion.


 
#4
#4
Good post . . . Things are hardly ever as bad . . . or as good . . . as they seem.
 
#5
#5
Well said Vol 4 Life. We have to keep the positive attitude and cheer on our BIG ORANGE.
 
#6
#6
VolmanJR you handled the subject matter very well. One side says that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, while the other says that the baby shouldn't have been peeing in the bath water.

Both sides make valid points. CPF has made repsonsible changes, and regardless of whether or not you think it was his own doing that got us in this mess, I will agree that one more season of CPF is not disasterous.

My only question is this. The Vols did not spend as much time in the national spotlight historically as other prominent teams: OSU, USC, Fla State, Miami. So how long can we be afford to be out of the mix in terms of the national stage? Will replacing CPF change that? I have no idea.
 
#7
#7
(bleedingorange @ Jan 7 said:
do u honestly believe this site needs another fulmer thread.
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Because of the nancy's and their constant crying threads....no, I think we really don't.

As for Jr's thread...KUDOS.

 
#9
#9
(NCGatorBait @ Jan 7 said:
Where were the Anti-Fulmers when he brought home the NC in 98?
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That's easy . . . They were telling everybody that we won because of superior talent.
 
#10
#10
(bleedingorange @ Jan 7 said:
volmanjr. do u honestly believe this site needs another fulmer thread.
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Probably not. This thread was meant to be more of a smooth things over thread than a Fulmer thread. Both sides have strong opinions and the last 2 big threads got pretty heated in the debate. My point is there is some common ground and most us don't think Fulmer is God as has been implied by some, but we do respect what he's done for UT. That does not mean we don't hold him accountable. To me CPF is on probation not death row. Bottom line is wether you like Fulmer or not it's still UT football and I for one am still counting the days until Cal comes to town! GO VOLS!:ninja:
 
#11
#11
(U-T @ Jan 7 said:
Because of the nancy's and their constant crying threads....no, I think we really don't.
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For those who are tired of the arguing back and forth, it's the comments like the above that continue the name-calling and arguing. It's stooping to kindergarden comment level like this that's keeping the annoying threads going and people chucking juvenile insults at each other. Perhaps if people stuck to a level of intelligent debate civility could return. But there's always those who get their kicks out of insulting people and offering little to add to the discussions.

It's good to see a few great posts by both sides of the argument here. Hopefully this will continue.
 
#12
#12
(volmanjr @ Jan 7 said:
Probably not. This thread was meant to be more of a smooth things over thread than a Fulmer thread. Both sides have strong opinions and the last 2 big threads got pretty heated in the debate. My point is there is some common ground and most us don't think Fulmer is God as has been implied by some, but we do respect what he's done for UT. That does not mean we don't hold him accountable. To me CPF is on probation not death row. Bottom line is wether you like Fulmer or not it's still UT football and I for one am still counting the days until Cal comes to town! GO VOLS!:ninja:
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Exactly. This is bigger than Fulmer or any other coach. This program is not about Fulmer. It's about a legacy and some great tradition. Despite what any of us think about Fulmer and what resulted last year, we've got some good changes and hopefully will see results next year.
 
#13
#13
(CSpindizzy @ Jan 7 said:
For those who are tired of the arguing back and forth, it's the comments like the above that continue the name-calling and arguing.
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Don't make a stupid post and you won't be made fun of.

Not name-calling...just the facts.

It really is that simple.
 
#14
#14
(GAVol @ Jan 7 said:
That's easy . . . They were telling everybody that we won because of superior talent.
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Well I think it is obvious what they were doing. Sucking on their thumb in pre-kindergarden
 
#18
#18
(NCGatorBait @ Jan 7 said:
Where were the Anti-Fulmers when he brought home the NC in 98?
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Injecting,smoking, snorting, hallucinating, etc.Take your pick. :birgits_giggle:
 
#19
#19
I just don't like CPF's philosophy on offense while Sanders was OC. "We are just gonna take what the defense gives us"...........thats bull! Attack the defense and take what you want, WE ARE TENNESSEE for heaven's sake!
 
#21
#21
As much as I don't like to think about that happening again, I can see a lot of scenarios where he could do that and still be fine. As competitive as the SEC is, it's very plausible that we could have a good team and go 9-3 next year.
 
#22
#22
If coach Fulmer doesn't learn a multitude of lessons from last years disaster he could be in a heap of trouble. Personally I think he will and next year will be a welcome turnaround to the stature the Big Orange is accustomed to. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it..... :shades:
 
#23
#23
A lot of us just have to realize that every program and that every coach is bound to have a down year. Granted our down year was a little worse than most, the poor performance of Tennessee has not reached the epidemic stage yet. Look at the way Joe Pa and Penn St bounced back this year, and I don't believe Tennessee will be down as long as the Nittany Lions were. We have a good stockpile of talent to work from, and hopefully the new aditions to the coaching staff will be the remedy for what ailed us last year. I for one haven't lost faith in CPF yet, and expect our program to bounce back and be a contender once again.
 
#24
#24
(Lexvol @ Jan 7 said:
My only question is this. The Vols did not spend as much time in the national spotlight historically as other prominent teams: OSU, USC, Fla State, Miami. So how long can we be afford to be out of the mix in terms of the national stage? Will replacing CPF change that? I have no idea.
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The most recent "spotlight" for each of the teams listed.

OSU - In the 5 years from 2000-2004, Oklahoma had a record of 60-7. They won the BCS national championship in 2000. Oklahoma was a BCS participant in 4 of the 5 seasons. Oklahoma was not a BCS participant in 2001. They lost the BCS Championship game in 2003 and 2004. 1-2 in BCS Championship Games and 2-2 in all BCS Games from 2000-2004. Prior to 2000, the Sooners lost 38 games in 6 seasons. Oklahoma lost 4 games in 2005.

USC - In the 4 years from 2002-2005, Southern Cal had a record of 48-4. They won 1 Consensus National Championship (2004) and 1 Split National Championship (AP 2003). They have played in the last 2 BCS Championship Games, losing this season. They are 1-1 in BCS Championship Games and 3-1 in all BCS games from 2002-2005. Prior to 2002, USC lost 35 games in the previous 6 seasons.

Florida State - FSU has the most successful stint, from 1992-2000. We could go back further, but the Bowl Coalition was started in 1992, matching #1 Miami and #2 Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. In those 9 seasons, FSU was 99-11. They competed in the Bowl Coalition 3 times after winning the ACC. They won the Coalition Championship and National Championship in 1993. They were 3-0 in Coalition games. The Coalition changed into the Bowl Alliance in 1995. FSU again competed as the ACC champion... as #1 Nebraska beat #2 Florida in the championship game. In 1996, FSU lost to Florida in the Alliance championship game. FSU was 2-1 in Bowl Alliance games. The BCS began in 1998. FSU played in the championship game the first three seasons, losing to Tennessee in '98, beating Va Tech in '99, and losing to Oklahoma in 2000. FSU was 1-2 in BCS games from 1998-2000. Overall, FSU played in 5 coalition/alliance/bcs championship games. They were 2-3 in those games. They were 6-3 in all coalition/alliance/bcs games from 1992-2000. Since then, FSU has lost 20 games the past 5 seasons.

Miami - The Hurricanes have been in the "spotlight" several times. However, their most recent "spotlight" is from 2000-2003. Over that 4 year span, the 'Canes were 46-4. Miami won the BCS Championship in 2001, lost the championship in 2002 and was in the BCS during the other seasons during that time. They were 1-1 in BCS Championship games and 3-1 in all BCS games from 2000-2003. The 'Canes lost 13 games in the 3 seasons prior to 2000 (including a 5-6 season) and lost 6 games in the 2 seasons since 2003.

Tennessee - In the 5 seasons from 1995 to 1999, the Vols record was 54-8. The Vols lost the 1997 Bowl Alliance Championship to Nebraska. The Vols won the 1st BCS national championship in 1998. They participated in the BCS in 1999, losing to Nebraska. Overall, they were 1-1 in championship games and 1-2 in all alliance/bcs games from 1995-1999.

Recap

OSU (2000-2004) 1-2 in bcs championship games
USC (2002-2005) 1-1 in bcs championship games
FSU (1992-2000) 2-3 in alliance/coalition/bcs championship games
Mia (2000-2003) 1-1 in bcs championship games
Tenn (1995-1999) 1-1 in alliance/bcs championship games
 
#25
#25
(DKG534 @ Jan 12 said:
A lot of us just have to realize that every program and that every coach is bound to have a down year. Granted our down year was a little worse than most, the poor performance of Tennessee has not reached the epidemic stage yet. Look at the way Joe Pa and Penn St bounced back this year, and I don't believe Tennessee will be down as long as the Nittany Lions were. We have a good stockpile of talent to work from, and hopefully the new aditions to the coaching staff will be the remedy for what ailed us last year. I for one haven't lost faith in CPF yet, and expect our program to bounce back and be a contender once again.
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I agree with your comments DKG534 about teams having down years. It is going to happen to the best of programs. However, CPF was boasting before the season about the talent of his 2005 team and about winning the SEC and possibly contend for the national championship. Obviously, he thought he had a good team with those comments. When a coach is that confident about his players and team, he better be able to back up his opinions and predictions. As a former coach, I believed in the old philosophy "don't count your chickens before they hatch". CPF's boasting during preseason definitely had a negative impact on the players' attitudes. I always liked my players to let their playing on the field do their talking for them. I hope CPF has learned a lesson about getting too cocky before the season even begins.
 
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