Question for metals investors

#52
#52
#55
#55
How and by whom? Seriously I don't understand.

I don't have time to break it all the way down right now LG.I gotta run but this all IMO. but here is one ex. JPMorgan inherited a massive amount of silver shorts priced between $20 and $21 when it took over Bear Stearns. Combined with HSBC, the two mega banks covered 85% of all silver shorts.

That right there is a solid case for manipulation — because the short position was so massive compared to physical silver trading and long positions. What's worse, the U.S. Treasury created the situation.

If the free market resolved the situation, silver would have more than doubled as the short position was covered and evaporated.

The massive position was maintained for years because it wasn't easy to wind down. Any large-scale attempts to unwind the position would be countered by other big traders and result in a loss. JPMorgan didn't have to, though; it simply needed to rig the system to turn a buck.

A precious metal trader named Andrew Maguire sent detailed information in an email to the CFTC on Feb. 3, 2010, about what to expect in two days after he noticed signals from JPMorgan and HSBC traders using after-hours high-frequency trades to crush prices.

His description was perfectly accurate. The trader, selling four hundred contracts per second, dumped 45,000 contracts into the market. Each was for 5,000 troy ounces for a grand total of 7,000 tonnes. The seller then suddenly shifted and started purchasing everything he could. Still moving far faster than other traders, he or she walked with $3.6 billion.

In more recent history, JPMorgan has been holding about 25% of the silver short market with the largest eight commercial silver shorts account for 50% to 60%. Estimates put paper silver positions at 143 times the actual amount of physical silver traded.

Massive volumes of sell orders are placed and canceled in fractions of a second by them. The lower sell prices still appear in market data for anyone that cannot handle trading by the millisecond, leading to panic selling by other (much slower) traders.

The high-frequency trading system then snaps up the positions for profit. After all, they never sold anything to begin with... they simply maintained short positions and canceled sales to buy at discounts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#56
#56
How and by whom? Seriously I don't understand.

They drop the price of (physical) silver by dumping onto the market (paper) silver from the SLV. I told you before that there are 200+ paper claims (at least) to every physical oz actually being held. That means that they are able to manipulate the real price by dumping what is the equivalent of a year's production of silver on the market in the form of paper contracts. At some point, you cannot continue to push the beachball any deeper in the swimming pool. Physical supply will trump the paper manipulation.

More things to consider:

1. Record silver Eagles sales (as well as Canadian and Perth Mints) the last 2 years, and yet we've seen the price of silver fall from ~$26 to $15 per troy oz over that same period.
2. Name one asset that is priced cheaper today than it was in 1980? Today, the spot price of silver is ~$15.50. When the Hunt Brothers cornered the market in 1980, the price reached $50. Hell, the price got to $50 again in 2011.
3. India and China are making huge purchases (both the govt and the citizens) of silver, yet the price still falls
4. Why has there been an on going war with silver for over 150+ years? From the Opium Wars and the Crime of 1873 to the Coinage Act of 1965 to The Hunt Brothers to Warren Buffet having to sell his Hunt-esque holdings of silver in 2006?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#57
#57
Coincidence?

Warren Buffett Sells the Family Silver | Resource Investor

May 7, 2006

At the company's shareholder meeting in Omaha, Nebraska on Saturday, Chairman Warren Buffett announced that the company has divested its silver holdings.

According to news sources today, Buffett told shareholders, "We had a lot of silver at one time but we don't have it now."

In 1997, Buffett purchased an estimated 130 million ounces for delivery in 1998. In February 1998, the silver price jumped to a high of $7.81/oz, rallying 50% since mid-1997.

The earlier this year that Buffett still held somewhere between 100 and 129 million ounces.

However, it might important to note the timing of Barclays' silver ETF iShares Silver Trust [AMEX:SLV], which on April 28.

Jason Hommel, Editor of "Silver Stock Report" previously that "we just don't know" where the silver will come from to back the ETF, and it is possible that Warren Buffett could be the supplier, which isn't causing a shortage in the market.

What (or who) forced him to sell?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#60
#60
So the price of physical silver is artificially dumbed down by paper silver that is not backed?

I think the technical terms you're looking for are collateralized and rehypothecated. But yeah, IMO if the paper is ever forced to unwind it will get ugly and a lot of people holding the ETFs will find they aren't worth anything. Of course the Federal Reserve Note is just paper too... So who knows?
 
#61
#61
I think the technical terms you're looking for are collateralized and rehypothecated. But yeah, IMO if the paper is ever forced to unwind it will get ugly and a lot of people holding the ETFs will find they aren't worth anything. Of course the Federal Reserve Note is just paper too... So who knows?

I'm not buying for, or buying enough, for the calamity scenario. But it's interesting to read about. Thanks for the input.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#63
#63
Update. Bought 15 physical ounces today @ $17.50/oz. A five and a ten oz bar. One directly from silvertowne mint. Spot price is $15.50 but no shipping and reputable for easy resale when the time comes. Still going to take quite a bump to get square. The silver etf I view as short term. Less than six months. The physical is probably 10 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#64
#64
Update. Bought 15 physical ounces today @ $17.50/oz. A five and a ten oz bar. One directly from silvertowne mint. Spot price is $15.50 but no shipping and reputable for easy resale when the time comes. Still going to take quite a bump to get square. The silver etf I view as short term. Less than six months. The physical is probably 10 years.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you seem to have made a $263.25 investment in hopes of making a profit over ten years. I hope you didn't take food off the table to take such an exorbitant risk.......
 
#65
#65
Update. Bought 15 physical ounces today @ $17.50/oz. A five and a ten oz bar. One directly from silvertowne mint. Spot price is $15.50 but no shipping and reputable for easy resale when the time comes. Still going to take quite a bump to get square. The silver etf I view as short term. Less than six months. The physical is probably 10 years.

You'll be fine long term. What ever you do, do not panic and mistakenly sell. You always want physical silver because silver certificates are on the back of Silver. Meaning that each certificate represents x amount of silver. As posters indicated already, this silver they back might not exist. It's like the phony stock certificates in the 1800's.

Hold the physical as long as you can.
 
#66
#66
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you seem to have made a $263.25 investment in hopes of making a profit over ten years. I hope you didn't take food off the table to take such an exorbitant risk.......

Lol no. I'll be adding to it over time. More of a hedge than anything else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#67
#67
You'll be fine long term. What ever you do, do not panic and mistakenly sell. You always want physical silver because silver certificates are on the back of Silver. Meaning that each certificate represents x amount of silver. As posters indicated already, this silver they back might not exist. It's like the phony stock certificates in the 1800's.

Hold the physical as long as you can.

I've been reading about the theories that the metal behind the etf stocks is either not there or not all there. But the people who seem to tout that never have any evidence. They also seem to think that there is no gold in Fort Knox. I tend to think such theories are bleh
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#68
#68
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you seem to have made a $263.25 investment in hopes of making a profit over ten years. I hope you didn't take food off the table to take such an exorbitant risk.......


Also, larger positions raise difficult issues. Let's say I want 1,000 ounces. If I buy 10 bars @ 100 ounces each I'll pay a far lower premium than 1,000 one ounce bars.

But 100 ounce bars mean real storage expense. And they are tougher to sell. And if it ever came down to it a 100 ounce bar would be virtually impossible to barter.

So the 1 ounce bars are more easily disposed of. But you might pay another .75 to a dollar over spot than the premium for ten 100 ounce bars.
 
#70
#70
I've been reading about the theories that the metal behind the etf stocks is either not there or not all there. But the people who seem to tout that never have any evidence. They also seem to think that there is no gold in Fort Knox. I tend to think such theories are bleh

There is no gold in Fort Knox. It all got moved into a vault in NYC that is connected to JP Morgan. Germany tried to get their gold out of that vault, but our government told them they didn't have it. The history channel did a show on this in fact.
 
#71
#71
Also, larger positions raise difficult issues. Let's say I want 1,000 ounces. If I buy 10 bars @ 100 ounces each I'll pay a far lower premium than 1,000 one ounce bars.

But 100 ounce bars mean real storage expense. And they are tougher to sell. And if it ever came down to it a 100 ounce bar would be virtually impossible to barter.

So the 1 ounce bars are more easily disposed of. But you might pay another .75 to a dollar over spot than the premium for ten 100 ounce bars.

You could make a mold of a 1 oz silver bar, then smelt the 100 oz bar into 100 silver bars. You'd need a smelter and a forge to do that though. You would also melt all the impurities out of it.
 
#72
#72
LOL J/K with you. Seemed like a pretty small investment, but I understand what you're doing.

Got to start somewhere. The 5 oz bar from local coin shop. Stopped at hobby store and bought a magnet on the way home to apply that test. The 10 ounce from silvertowne direct. They seem to have best price and free shipping.

What's interesting is you can buy the 10 ounce from them direct for $175. No shipping. But if you go on EBay the identical bar from them is bid up to $190 (also free shipping).

Who knows, maybe one day I'll have 10,000 ounces and have real storage worries. But heck, right now the primary purpose of the 5 oz bar is a card protector when I play poker.
 
#73
#73
Got to start somewhere. The 5 oz bar from local coin shop. Stopped at hobby store and bought a magnet on the way home to apply that test. The 10 ounce from silvertowne direct. They seem to have best price and free shipping.

What's interesting is you can buy the 10 ounce from them direct for $175. No shipping. But if you go on EBay the identical bar from them is bid up to $190 (also free shipping).

Who knows, maybe one day I'll have 10,000 ounces and have real storage worries. But heck, right now the primary purpose of the 5 oz bar is a card protector when I play poker.

Nevermind that jabroni danl... at least you bought physical and got started. Congrats.
 
#74
#74
Update. Bought 15 physical ounces today @ $17.50/oz. A five and a ten oz bar. One directly from silvertowne mint. Spot price is $15.50 but no shipping and reputable for easy resale when the time comes. Still going to take quite a bump to get square. The silver etf I view as short term. Less than six months. The physical is probably 10 years.
...
 
#75
#75


Yeah, metal markets crazy right now. The two main components seem to be 1) heavy buying of silver in India and heavy buying of gold in China; and 2) anticipated rate cuts, which will weaken the dollar and thereby make metals a store of value.

Sunday night will be interesting when the Asian markets open. Could be a ton of profit taking or the rally could continue. Really unpredictable right now.
 

VN Store



Back
Top