Question for the Dems/Libs out there...

#1
T

therealUT

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#1
Are you happy with the legislation that the House and Senate passed concerning NSA eavesdropping? Will you be as prone to call foul and scream that the sky is falling, our consitutional rights are being infringed upon? Or is this now ok, since the House and Senate (controlled by the same Democrats who made a stink about the NSA program during their election campaigns) passed this bill?
 
#2
#2
I don't think any American who is moderate or even liberal democrat has a problem with a bill that streamlines national security, thats good for all Americans. What the problem is, is that this bill may set a precident I repeat precident that other bills in the future would turn this republic into a fascist state. Don't think so? Next time you get in your car and you reach for your seatbelt because it's the law and your safer so they say remember insurance companies reccommended this I'm sure with lobbyist cash to lower their claims payouts.
 
#3
#3
therealUT said:
Are you happy with the legislation that the House and Senate passed concerning NSA eavesdropping? Will you be as prone to call foul and scream that the sky is falling, our consitutional rights are being infringed upon? Or is this now ok, since the House and Senate (controlled by the same Democrats who made a stink about the NSA program during their election campaigns) passed this bill?
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I would post something, but I don't know who will be listening to my phone calls later tonight.
 
#5
#5
Precedent is the central concept of American law.

Our system was invented to prevent our natural and admirable short term urges from screwing us in the future/ over the long term.

That said, your question ought to be, "As dangerous as the recent bill produced by a Democrat-controlled Legislature is, can you imagine how ugly things would be if the freakin' Republicans had gotten their way?"

Look at them now- How morally destitute do you have to be to give up defending your own side and instead try to argue that, however more moral than you the other side may be, they aren't perfect, so that must mean they are hypocrites and their moral point is completely invalid.

I mean, damn! Sure, there are people who will fall for that because they don't know any better, but this completely cynical cotton-candy logic is being pushed as if they think most of us are too stupid to see through it. It's not an argument, it's the political equivalent of a Jr. High School prima donna daring you to disagree with the cool kids.
 
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#6
So, since the Dems passed the Bill, it would have been worse had the Republicans done so? I appreciate your attempt to cover up your response with an heir of intellect, however, your argument was worthless.

The point is this: Dems acted as though every American's "right to privacy" was under attack leading up to the 2006 elections. When they won control of the legislature, they approved exactly what they were so strongly condemning. So, for those people who voted for the Dems, are you happy about this?
 
#7
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therealUT said:
So, since the Dems passed the Bill, it would have been worse had the Republicans done so? I appreciate your attempt to cover up your response with an heir of intellect, however, your argument was worthless.

The point is this: Dems acted as though every American's "right to privacy" was under attack leading up to the 2006 elections. When they won control of the legislature, they approved exactly what they were so strongly condemning. So, for those people who voted for the Dems, are you happy about this?
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There's no bigger advocate for this bill then George W. Bush. The idea that this bill wouldn't have been passed under a Republican Congress is laughable.
 
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oklavol said:
There's no bigger advocate for this bill then George W. Bush. The idea that this bill wouldn't have been passed under a Republican Congress is laughable.
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That wasn't even remotely his point though. It's not about whether or not this would have passed, it's about pointing out the irony of screaming about civil liberties in an election year and then passing the very sort of legislation they were decrying 12 months later.
 
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GAVol said:
That wasn't even remotely his point though. It's not about whether or not this would have passed, it's about pointing out the irony of screaming about civil liberties in an election year and then passing the very sort of legislation they were decrying 12 months later.
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Exactly. To me it shows the difference between rallying support among the base vs. making real decisions that one believes are the right thing to do or in the best interest of the country.

I would imagine that many of the dems who voted for this did so because they felt passing a flawed version of the bill was more important than making a political stand.

Reps do this too - it's the nature of the beast.
 
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#11
Do people honestly think that a Democrat and a Republican are so different?? Political party affiliation means nothing now a days. People's social lives control how they vote most of the time and if it doesn't affect them they will vote either way they choose and spit on the American people's opinion. That's the problem with this country now, we don't hold them accountable in Washington. If people actually cared who they voted for and not just pushing a party platform then this country wouldn't have a "corporate" government. As far as the bill goes, it would have been passed no matter who controlled Congress. Democrats flip-flop just like Republicans do and honestly I think I am just gonna take my conservative ways and move on if things continue the way they are going. Democrat and Republican doesn't matter anymore, its about lobbist's and big business and that's who controls our government.
 
#12
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g8terh8ter_eric said:
Do people honestly think that a Democrat and a Republican are so different?? Political party affiliation means nothing now a days. People's social lives control how they vote most of the time and if it doesn't affect them they will vote either way they choose and spit on the American people's opinion. That's the problem with this country now, we don't hold them accountable in Washington. If people actually cared who they voted for and not just pushing a party platform then this country wouldn't have a "corporate" government. As far as the bill goes, it would have been passed no matter who controlled Congress. Democrats flip-flop just like Republicans do and honestly I think I am just gonna take my conservative ways and move on if things continue the way they are going. Democrat and Republican doesn't matter anymore, its about lobbist's and big business and that's who controls our government.
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some good points, but some just absurd. People vote their social lives - that's crazy. More vote their pocketbook than anything.
 
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GAVol said:
That wasn't even remotely his point though. It's not about whether or not this would have passed, it's about pointing out the irony of screaming about civil liberties in an election year and then passing the very sort of legislation they were decrying 12 months later.
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Let me try to clarify. Criticizing the Democratic Congress for passing legislation that Bush is an outspoken champion of is pointless. It would have passed by a wider margin if the Republicans were in control of Congress.
 
#16
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oklavol said:
Let me try to clarify. Criticizing the Democratic Congress for passing legislation that Bush is an outspoken champion of is pointless. It would have passed by a wider margin if the Republicans were in control of Congress.
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That is true, no doubt about it. The Dems though need to be criticized for being hypocrites before the election and telling the American people what they wanted to hear at the time. Its kinda like telling a child you will do something for them if they do this for you, then they do it and you tell them that you don't have time to do what you told them you would do. Both political parties have trust issues and that's one reason I don't approve of either one.
 
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oklavol said:
Let me try to clarify. Criticizing the Democratic Congress for passing legislation that Bush is an outspoken champion of is pointless. It would have passed by a wider margin if the Republicans were in control of Congress.
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sweet analysis. give them a pass based upon the fact that the bill would have passed by a different margin. Does the lower passing margin mean the bill will be enacted more slowly or will become only a partial law?

that's fabulous.
 
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oklavol said:
Let me try to clarify. Criticizing the Democratic Congress for passing legislation that Bush is an outspoken champion of is pointless. It would have passed by a wider margin if the Republicans were in control of Congress.
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Again . . . That's not the point. Just pointing out the irony of crying foul about civil liberties and wire tapping and using it as a wedge issue and then passing this legislation.

Democrats used civil liberty infringement to rally their base just like they always accuse Republicans of using social and security issues.
 
#20
#20
vader said:
What do you mean by this? Just curious.
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Right now I don't approve of either party and I don't think that either one stack up with my views. I honestly think as well, that until we put ALL lobbyists in jail and cut term limits in Congress then our country will continue down a path that may end up being our undoing. Most countries that have had power haven't fallen based on expansion, they have fallen based on power struggles from within and I think we are possibly flirting with that path unless we straighten our act up in DC.
 
#22
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BigPapaVol said:
sweet analysis. give them a pass based upon the fact that the bill would have passed by a different margin. Does the lower passing margin mean the bill will be enacted more slowly or will become only a partial law?

that's fabulous.
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I'm not giving anyone a pass. I would like to vote all of them out from both parties. But a Republican Congress would have passed this by a larger margin then the Democratic Congress did. The Republicans are worse on this issue then the Democrats.
 
#23
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oklavol said:
I'm not giving anyone a pass. I would like to vote all of them out from both parties. But a Republican Congress would have passed this by a larger margin then the Democratic Congress did. The Republicans are worse on this issue then the Democrats.
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Its not about margin here, its about the Dems spouting off at the mouth to get elected then just falling right back in line for the most part to where the people before them left off. We all understand that it would have been a bigger margin in it was a Republican Congress, but the point remains is the Dems aren't doing what they said they would so that's why they have an approval rating lower than the President does right now.
 
#24
#24
To GA and TRUT's points, this is totally backdoor politics. This type of action is the norm for both parties, and inexcusable. If they made decisions for the good of the people and the country, where are they when sessions are not in? My reps are not in my area doing town hall meetings about upcoming votes seeking out the temperament of his constituency. Vote them all out and start over. Could it really get more ridiculous?
 
#25
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GVF said:
To GA and TRUT's points, this is totally backdoor politics. This type of action is the norm for both parties, and inexcusable. If they made decisions for the good of the people and the country, where are they when sessions are not in? My reps are not in my area doing town hall meetings about upcoming votes seeking out the temperament of his constituency. Vote them all out and start over. Could it really get more ridiculous?
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It can and it will unless the American people realize they hold the power in this country and quit giving their decision making to complete imbeciles.
 
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