questioning faith

[TheDeeble]

God wanted that child to die young. He wanted his parents to suffer. And that's supposed to increase my faith in Him? I can't wrap my head around that.

I had some internal debate about this subject in general a few years back and I began to think God mostly takes a hands off approach.

Not saying he does or doesn't want good people/bad people to suffer/die, just that he lets events play out as they will.

Made me question the role of prayer. I can fall and break my leg/arm/whatever, and no matter how much I pray, it's not going to heal itself in a day. God gives us free will to make our own decisions, so will anyone that prays for someone else to change their lifestyle have any effect?

Definitely shook my faith some.

 

[davethevol]

?

He misspelled diabetes.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Truth....John 16:33

... And if you're not questioning faith from time to time, I'd say you're abnormal.

I have been a pastor for almost 20 years now, and I can tell you that this is the absolute truth. Real faith is not necessarily the absence of doubt, it is the overcoming of it. As the man said to Jesus "I believe, help thou my unbelief"

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

This seems figurative and I don't think it's even trying to say Satan is the god of this world. I think it is talking about worldliness.

I don't know why I was expecting to find a literal verse. God is the God of this world. He made it, right?

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

He is talking about the world of disobedient people.

 

[Roustabout]

Huff and Roust, just a thought. Is your debate and the ensuing posts helpful to OP? If not, table for another opportunity (an inevitability). If yes, ignore my buttinski and carry on. TIA.

My reply referred directly back to the OP.

 

[UT-Rex]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roustabout View Post
2 Cor. 4:4

This seems figurative and I don't think it's even trying to say Satan is the god of this world. I think it is talking about worldliness.

I don't know why I was expecting to find a literal verse. God is the God of this world. He made it, right?

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

When tempted (#2 of 3) in the wilderness, Jesus was told "(of all the kingdoms you see before you) All of this I will give you, if you will bow and worship me." Well, just as Daniel refused to bow to Nebuch, Jesus didn't bow, and, Jesus didn't refute that those kingdoms (of this world) were the devil's to give him (and, Jesus also said another time, "my kingdom is not of this world"). Jesus also told Pilate: "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above."

 

[UT-Rex]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunsanvol View Post
God wanted that child to die young. He wanted his parents to suffer. And that's supposed to increase my faith in Him? I can't wrap my head around that.

I'll say this. As a pediatric nurse, I've witnessed the death of children, and have watched them overcome cancer. I've questioned my own faith but have seen miracles happen. Couple years ago I watched a dr in the NICU try and rescutiate a baby for 15 mins and couldn't. He stopped the code to tell the parent's and all of a sudden that baby came back. 2.5 years later he's a helathy child. (Sometimes there's a higher authority in control). The way people come together when a child is sick is something that can't be explained. I've watched different races, straights and gays, men and women, all come together to help a family out. Sometimes there are bigger things going on that we can't explain. I've heard stories that people have become nurses because of having something wrong as a child or to their child. The care they received made them feel like they needed in that field of work to help others. There's always a bigger picture that we can't grasp at times.

Thank you for sharing.

Looking at the death of King David's son (2 Samuel 12):

19David noticed that his attendants were whispering among themselves, and he realized the child was dead. “Is the child dead?” he asked.

“Yes,” they replied, “he is dead.”

20Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

21His attendants asked him, “Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!”

22He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Perhaps this is an example, at looking at men/women "of faith" (Hebrews 11).

 

[Obsessed]

Watch "The Shack".

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

full blown atheist here. got respect for everyone, as long as they respect me. got a religious girlfriend, religious friends and family etc. with that being said all the horrible things that happen to people in the world had a impact on me not being religious. There's a lot more to it than just that. in my eyes you can have faith in anything you want but that doesn't make it true

 

[Headed For Home]

I am not here to start any bashing of believers vs non-believers. I have some things on my mind and want the opinions of others who are believers.

I am a believer. I always have been and I always will be. But honestly, I'm not sure what I believe and what I don't because some things just don't add up with me.

Does prayer actually work? I've always been taught that God controls all, and knows what will happen to each of us. Our birth, our lives, our death..everything. So, with that being said, if a young person get cancer, and it is God's will that he will die from it, what purpose does prayer serve? If enough people pray, does God change his mind? If not enough people pray, does God decide to let the person die?

If God is all powerful and all good, how can childhood cancer be explained? Why would He allow His people to suffer? I'm told God loves us more than we can understand...even more than we love our own children. I know that I had the ability to stop my child from suffering, I sure would. So if God supposedly loves him more than I do, why allow him to suffer?

Things just don't add up sometimes to me

Go back and read about the encounter that Abraham had with the Lord before the destruction of Sodom. Prayer does change things. But even when bad things happen, we must remember that it rains on the just and the unjust in other words, bad things happen to good people.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

full blown atheist here. got respect for everyone, as long as they respect me. got a religious girlfriend, religious friends and family etc. with that being said all the horrible things that happen to people in the world had a impact on me not being religious. There's a lot more to it than just that. in my eyes you can have faith in anything you want but that doesn't make it true

I get it. I think it's very difficult for analytical people in particular. At the end of the day it takes a leap of faith based on something that can never be proven. A lot of people just can't bring themselves to make that leap.

 

[Vol_til_I_die]

You have to keep in mind that with free moral will, sin entered the world. I get the not understanding why bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people; I really do. But as has been mentioned, the ultimate goal isn't anything that this life offers us. It is eternal life. I think that scripture tries to make that point on several different occasions. Every knee will bow. Every tongue will confess. I don't think that anyone should be "scared" into believing, or having faith, but I think if one truly studies the Word, you, too, will come to that conclusion.

There are questions that many of us have, believers and non-believers alike. Prayer is one of the many. I think the OP raises a great question but I personally choose to have faith that He knows what He's doing.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

I get it. I think it's very difficult for analytical people in particular. At the end of the day it takes a leap of faith based on something that can never be proven. A lot of people just can't bring themselves to make that leap.

That's exactly where I'm at. My brain literally won't allow me to believe in something I can't see or touch. I honestly can't help it

 

[GAVol]

I'm not sure what this means in relation to what I said? Faith has value because it's indicative of other virtues?

Lol... I've tried to respond about 3 times, but it keeps coming off way too confusing.

Just pointing out that from what I understand, there's really nothing gained from faith alone since "Faith without works is dead."

 

[mtt2d]

I'm a sinner like all other people who have lived other than Christ. I've learned to believe Christ I have to repent and follow Christ daily. I pray for Gods will to be done. Not my will. There's no fear of death or hell because I will be spending eternity in heaven with Christ. Let me have a life of suffering with Christ with the hope of being eternally predestined for heaven, over any crazy, evil, wicked, sinful, deceptive pleasure this cursed world has to offer.

 

[Roustabout]

Watch "The Shack".

Or don't. It's heretical, emotional garbage.

 

[Roustabout]

That's exactly where I'm at. My brain literally won't allow me to believe in something I can't see or touch. I honestly can't help it

You believe in gravity?

The laws of logic?

Mathematics?

Love?

I'm sick of people thinking skepticism is a virtue.

Plus, your entire problem is emotional, not logical.
"The world's ****ed up, so, no God."
As if your not part of the **** up.

 

[kiddiedoc]

bad things happen to good people.

Actually, the truth is: there are no "good people." We all sin and fall short of God's standard. That's where people get mixed up. In truth, we all deserve to die and spend eternity in separation from Him. If Justice is what we want, we'd all perish.

The awesome part is this: God provided a substitute for our punishment by offering His unblemished Son as payment for our sin. Only He, being perfect, could serve as the perfect and final sacrifice. In death, He bore our sins on the cross. In rising, he defeated death and reassured Satan that he would only have dominion over the Earth and its inhabitants for a limited time.

Nothing that we can "do" will satisfy this requirement. Only the acceptance of God's Grace can save us. True submission to God and the justification that ensues will be manifest as "fruit" or works in believers, but they are merely a testament to our salvation, not something we do to win God's favor.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I get it. I think it's very difficult for analytical people in particular. At the end of the day it takes a leap of faith based on something that can never be proven. A lot of people just can't bring themselves to make that leap.

I'm a very logical thinker and I can't logically think that this planet, this Galaxy, this universe, is all a big accident. I look up on a clear night and see all those stars. I see how this Earth is precisely the right distance from our sun to not just sustain life but to foster an environment where humans can thrive. I believe a master's hands were involved.

 

[volfannbama]

I'm a very logical thinker and I can't logically think that this planet, this Galaxy, this universe, is all a big accident. I look up on a clear night and see all those stars. I see how this Earth is precisely the right distance from our son to not just sustain life but to foster an environment where humans can thrive. I believe a master's hands were involved.

There is a great book on this subject called i dont have enough faith to be an atheist. The author says he asked someone about a post it note that had a simple sentence on it and the person said its common sense that someone wrote it cause the words just didnt accidently get on the post it note, yet he believed the universe was just a big accident.

 

[kiddiedoc]

"The Case for a Creator" is also an apologetic classic. "Mere Christianity" is good stuff, too.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

You believe in gravity?

The laws of logic?

Mathematics?

Love?

I'm sick of people thinking skepticism is a virtue.

Plus, your entire problem is emotional, not logical.
"The world's ****ed up, so, no God."
As if your not part of the **** up.

gravity is literally all around you. love I feel it. literally everything we do involves math. don't really see your point

 

[Orange Blazer]

These threads are stupid and always end the same way. So pointless. Everyone just agree to disagree. God loves us all.

 

[SergeantVol]

gravity is literally all around you. love I feel it. literally everything we do involves math. don't really see your point

God isn't something you can comprehend. Given his omnipotentence, he exists outside of time, space, and matter. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He exists outside of time. He was there before the beginning. He created the heavens. The space in which everything resides. He creates the earth and everything on it. All matter that exists he created. Would you really want to worship a creator who wasn't able to exists outside of what we can measure? What we can comprehend? If we could, I don't think I would want to worship him. I want to know that my creator is omnipotent.

I am by no means a church going Christian and I struggle with my faith almost daily. But I remember the above. My faith is strong because I have faith that he exists and is all powerful.

 

[Jim]

God wanted that child to die young. He wanted his parents to suffer. And that's supposed to increase my faith in Him? I can't wrap my head around that.

God is the author of all good. Man's sin has brought pain and death into the world.