Read This: You wanna know the truth about Barack Hussein Obama...here you go

[rjd970]

I think the repub majority kept him centered. My point about the leadership being further right has more to do with the people in that majority at the time.

You're right about that.

 

[rjd970]

on which agenda item did the country move too far right over those 6 years? Which single one? Can you even name one? Do you have any idea?

The first 6 years? Privatizing the war in Iraq, increased influence of the religious right, and energy policy come to mind.

 

[BigPapaVol]

The first 6 years? Privatizing the war in Iraq, increased influence of the religious right, and energy policy come to mind.

war wasn't privatized nor was private contractor help a new thing. It was massive in the first Desert Storm and the Pentagon drove that train, not the Admin.

The influence of the religious right has only been at the polls, not in law. They have a lobbying arm just as the ACLU does, but have nowhere near the influence that the lawyers do.

 

[rjd970]

war wasn't privatized nor was private contractor help a new thing. It was massive in the first Desert Storm and the Pentagon drove that train, not the Admin.

Troop to contractor ratio in the first Gulf War was 60 to 1. In this conflict, contractors actually outnumber troops. As of October 1 of last year, there are approx 180,000 contractor personnel performing a wide variety of tasks, of which 150,000 work directly for the DoD. This is compared to 160,000 U.S. troops, total. Since 2000, even armed contractors working for Blackwater have accounted for almost $1.2 Billion. If that is not privatization, I don't know what is.

The influence of the religious right has only been at the polls, not in law. They have a lobbying arm just as the ACLU does, but have nowhere near the influence that the lawyers do.

Wanna talk influence? Exactly how many ACLU lawyers had weekly telecons with the oval office? According to a 2005 Times article, that is exactly what Ted Haggard and Richard Land did to strategize on gay marriage, abortion, and other social agendas.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Troop to contractor ratio in the first Gulf War was 60 to 1. In this conflict, contractors actually outnumber troops. As of October 1 of last year, there are approx 180,000 contractor personnel performing a wide variety of tasks, of which 150,000 work directly for the DoD. This is compared to 160,000 U.S. troops, total. If that is not privatization, I don't know what is.

you have no idea what you're talking about. The military function was carried out by the military when it was a war. Now that the primary function is training and rebuilding, contractors are handling some of those functions, especially on the putting Iraq back together front. A rebuilding operation has no business in the hands of the military, whose function was really to break the stuff in the first place. Training folks you were trying to kill not long ago is also difficult. Surely you can understand the need for someone other than military personnel to carry out what's happening today?


Exactly how many ACLU lawyers had weekly telecons with the oval office? According to a 2005 Times article, that is exactly what Ted Haggard and Richard Land did.

I don't know anything about the weekly teleconferences, but I'm trying to figure out how these supposed teleconferences has impacted the decision making at the White House? Which of the decisions has the religious right as architect?

 

[rjd970]

BPV:
The military function was carried out by the military when it was a war. Now that the primary function is training and rebuilding, contractors are handling some of those functions, especially on the putting Iraq back together front.

Are you saying we have not been operating in a war zone since 2003? The 150,000 contractors that work directly for the DoD are performing tasks such as bodyguards, translators, drivers, construction workers and cooks and bottle washers. During WWII this was mostly done by the military. All of these, which btw, are performing these tasks while American servicemen personnel have been conducting military operations for the last 5 years. Blackwater alone has worked $1.2 Billion in armed contracts.

BPV:
I don't know anything about the weekly teleconferences, but I'm trying to figure out how these supposed teleconferences has impacted the decision making at the White House? Which of the decisions has the religious right as architect?

First off, the weekly telecons are widely known. Simply google it. This is but one of a number of sources:

TIME Names the 25 Most Influential EVANGELICALS in America - TIME

Second, the political power these evangelicals had to yield with voters probably had something to do with Bush's first used veto on stem cell research.

Third, it is simply preposterous to assert that ACLU lawyers had more influence than the religious right in the Bush administration. Simply put, Bush doesn't win either election without this voting block, and that is why they got access.

 

[MontereyVol]

rjd970, the reason the US military is contracting out security started out with the Clinton administration gutting the military. We are supposed to maintain the manpower to fight two wars and one major conflict simultaneously, we no longer can do that. Bush did nothing to rectify this problem and tried to test the rules limits against what his military brass told him. He instead chose to listen to Rumsfeild and decided to be cute with spec-ops to wage two wars on their own.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Are you saying we have not been operating in a war zone since 2003? The 150,000 contractors that work directly for the DoD are performing tasks such as bodyguards, translators, drivers, construction workers and cooks and bottle washers. During WWII this was mostly done by the military. All of these, which btw, are performing these tasks while American servicemen personnel have been conducting military operations for the last 5 years. Blackwater alone has worked $1.2 Billion in armed contracts.

WWII is where we essentially learned that reconstruction is not the function of the military. The vast majority of the civilian personnel are working on the rebuilding front. Blackwater, IMO, is an effort to keep the "troop numbers" as low as possible.


First off, the weekly telecons are widely known. Simply google it. This is but one of a number of sources:

TIME Names the 25 Most Influential EVANGELICALS in America - TIME

Second, the political power these evangelicals had to yield with voters probably had something to do with Bush's first used veto on stem cell research.

Third, it is simply preposterous to assert that ACLU lawyers had more influence than the religious right in the Bush administration. Simply put, Bush doesn't win either election without this voting block, and that is why they got access.

See bold.

Bush might not win without them, but I'm asking where their influence showed up? The stem cell bill was getting vetoed with or without them.

Access and influence are two wildly different ideas.

Your final point simply supports my original point that they mattered in the votes, not in governance.

 

[truefan]

on which agenda item did the country move too far right over those 6 years? Which single one? Can you even name one? Do you have any idea?

You know what, you might try reading a post before you go off with your Hat like arrogance. My post says the country DIDN'T move too far to the right. It very well could have under the circumstances. As I said, "fortunately, it didn't".

 

[lawgator1]

I agree with BPV on this one. I don't think that the country has moved noticeably to the right on so-called social issues during the Bush years. I never really did view Bush as an ideologue, as much as I did a frontman for some heavy hitter special interests and then as a very military-oriented president. (The latter in fairness being a combination of thrust upon him by 9/11 together with some neo-cons in his administration only to happy to have him go down that path).

But in terms of social issues, I haven't felt like the country moved in one direction or another. In fact, really as a result of the electronic and .com market downturns that he inherited, combined with the economic effects of 9/11, I have felt for the last 5 years or so that the country is largely preoccupied with financial issues.

Oh sure, on the far fringes of the left and the right some people, and groups of people, are more polarized than ever. But for the 98 % of us somewhere in the middle, I don't fele like much of a culture war has been brewing on social issues.

I don't even really think that Obama or McCain would change that much. Sure, Obama is more liberal than McCain and vice versa, but neither strikes me as all that intent on stamping the country with his views and policies on social issues. They have really not been a highlight of the campaigns.

 

[rjd970]

Blackwater, IMO, is an effort to keep the "troop numbers" as low as possible.

Exactly my point. Not only did the admin privatize the logistic details, they also privatized some of the actual intel and security functions as well. A lot of people have made a lot of money during this conflict. The GAO released a report (I must admit I can't remeber when it was) that estimated $0.40 of every dollar spent in Iraq went to private contractors. We are talking extreme right wing when even war becomes privatized...and maybe this was some of what Powell was talking about.

The stem cell bill was getting vetoed with or without them.

If he didn't need the voting block, or listened to the influence of the spiritual leaders, I find it hard to believe the president would have vetoed a bill 75% of American's supported.

Access and influence are two wildly different ideas.

They are still related. The more access, the greater the ability to influence...escpecially when you have an entire voting block as capital.

 

[BigPapaVol]

You know what, you might try reading a post before you go off with your Hat like arrogance. My post says the country DIDN'T move too far to the right. It very well could have under the circumstances. As I said, "fortunately, it didn't".

you're correct. I misread what you said. My apologies.

Fortunately, I have you here with all your humility to offset my arrogance.