"Recovery speed" Interesting comment from coach J

[Batman1948]

I read a story on TOS regarding some of our DB's and Coach J mentioned recovery speed. Seems some of the guys have that now and I took his comment to mean that mistakes may be made but the play would not be lost. Made me feel good reading his comments.

 

[Recoil]

I think we'd all agree we've lacked elite speed in the back end (no homo) for quite a few years.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Is it actual physical speed or mental speed?? I can see a player being faster due to him knowing the assignment better and/or knowing how to correct himself faster/better if he miscalculated. Just have trouble understanding how this would mean a huge improvement in actual physical speed. Which I'm sure many on here will start to say was the only issue.

Not saying they can't get a tad faster, but not enough to make as big of a difference as reaction speed that comes from just knowing what to do. Then using their natural physical speed properly instead of not knowing what they are doing and holding back.

Just imho that's all...
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[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

Doesn't matter if its mental or physical speed. If it allows our DBs to close on a possibly open receiver faster, its a positive.

 

[Recoil]

I don't care how smart a guy is, if he's on an island and runs a 4.6, his brain won't make his feet speed up to catch a faster WR. Slow, smart DBs have to win at the line of scrimmage ALL the time. If they don't, the help HAS to be there. Other the past several years, we've seen our DBs repeatedly lose at the line of scrimmage and help either be late or take a poor angle. I'm optimistically hoping for the best.

 

[Volador]

Speed's important for a DB but, they gotta have ability to read routes so they can react quickly. If they are not trained properly in this aspect of their game, then they will spend the season recovering.

 

[gnm53108]

Fast twitch?

 

[Recoil]

Fast twitch?

Quick hips.

 

[Recoil]

Speed's important for a DB but, they gotta have ability to read routes so they can react quickly. If they are not trained properly in this aspect of their game, then they will spend the season recovering.

The only recovering we've seen has been them finishing a couple seconds behind the opposing receiver on the way to the end zone.

You're right. They need to be coached up. But there's only so much polish you can apply to a turd.

Glad we have some burners coming in.

 

[sjt18]

I don't care how smart a guy is, if he's on an island and runs a 4.6, his brain won't make his feet speed up to catch a faster WR. Slow, smart DBs have to win at the line of scrimmage ALL the time. If they don't, the help HAS to be there. Other the past several years, we've seen our DBs repeatedly lose at the line of scrimmage and help either be late or take a poor angle. I'm optimistically hoping for the best.

Over the past several years, P Waggner was probably UT's best cover guy and the one most capable of playing on the outside without help. He was slow. Coleman is significantly faster than Waggner.

The mental part (anticipation, instinct, applied film study, etc) is HUGE.

 

[KBVol]

I don't care how smart a guy is, if he's on an island and runs a 4.6, his brain won't make his feet speed up to catch a faster WR. Slow, smart DBs have to win at the line of scrimmage ALL the time. If they don't, the help HAS to be there. Other the past several years, we've seen our DBs repeatedly lose at the line of scrimmage and help either be late or take a poor angle. I'm optimistically hoping for the best.

This times roughly a thousand. You get great secondary play when elite, legit SEC speed DBs are well coached and know their assignments, positioning etc.

But at some point, a well coached 4.7 guy in the right position ain't checking a 4.4 WR. I think of last year's Bama game when our nickel walk-on Toney or Swafford (don't recall which) was in the right position, but had to play off Amari Cooper a couple extra steps because of the speed disparity. MCarron recognized it, rose up and threw a quick screen to Cooper in the slot, who ran right past our nickel untouched for a td. A faster, more athletic DB right there, in that same position, either makes the play after a minimal gain, or is playing up on Cooper a little closer and McCarron doesn't even check to the throw.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Speed's important for a DB but, they gotta have ability to read routes so they can react quickly. If they are not trained properly in this aspect of their game, then they will spend the season recovering.

you can coach some of them up, but instinct is towards the top of importance. Look at Coleman's instinct and Cam's instinct. Not even close.

We are getting some fast and aggressive ballplayers back there now. Many played both ways, which helps, imo.
We are about to go on a run of @ 5-7 yrs of no db's taken in the draft, which is unheard of and will change. If the NFL isn't looking at your db's, physical speed is lacking.

 

[Recoil]

Over the past several years, P Waggner was probably UT's best cover guy and the one most capable of playing on the outside without help. He was slow. Coleman is significantly faster than Waggner.

The mental part (anticipation, instinct, applied film study, etc) is HUGE.

I think you and I are in total agreement. Like I said, if a DB is slow, they have to win at the line of scrimmage ALL the time. Winning doesn't just mean a good jam, it could mean being in the right position, taking good angles, etc...P Waggner was a great example of this. When he 'lost' at the line of scrimmage, he LOST big time because he couldn't make up for his lack of speed.

 

[KBVol]

When I hear Butch mention recovery speed being better because we have much faster, athletic DBs (and LBS for that matter) I think of the concept of limiting big, explosive, game changing plays. For instance, if we had 4.4 DBs last year rather than 4.6 and 4.7 guys, perhaps a relatively slow Aaron Murray only gets 25-30 yds on a QB draw rather than the 60 he got which led to a quicker score, which could've been the difference in that game.

Perhaps all the huge 25+ yd plays we gave up vs Oregon, Bama, Auburn and Mizzou... hell, vs W Ky, don't materialize because we have faster guys that can close gaps and eliminate angles rather than getting run away from.

 

[fade route]

Over the past several years, P Waggner was probably UT's best cover guy and the one most capable of playing on the outside without help. He was slow. Coleman is significantly faster than Waggner.

The mental part (anticipation, instinct, applied film study, etc) is HUGE.

This. That's why Eric Berry was such a rare commodity. He had the mental part mastered early on and track speed to boot.

Oh, and he could knock the taste out of your mouth, just ask knowshon.

 

[Give_All_Vol]

This. That's why Eric Berry was such a rare commodity. He had the mental part mastered early on and track speed to boot.

Oh, and he could knock the taste out of your mouth, just ask knowshon.

Or Tebow lol. I will never forget their collision where they both turned sideways. You couldn't even tell who got the better of the exchange. Just two all americans coming to the same point at the same time and not giving an inch

 

[Bms4880]

I read a story on TOS regarding some of our DB's and Coach J mentioned recovery speed. Seems some of the guys have that now and I took his comment to mean that mistakes may be made but the play would not be lost.

If it means we're no longer giving up 60-yard runs to drop-back quarterbacks, I'm all for it.

 

[DeerPark12]

Is it actual physical speed or mental speed?? I can see a player being faster due to him knowing the assignment better and/or knowing how to correct himself faster/better if he miscalculated. Just have trouble understanding how this would mean a huge improvement in actual physical speed. Which I'm sure many on here will start to say was the only issue.

Not saying they can't get a tad faster, but not enough to make as big of a difference as reaction speed that comes from just knowing what to do. Then using their natural physical speed properly instead of not knowing what they are doing and holding back.

Just imho that's all...
Posted via VolNation Mobile

It's both. The biggest thing is realizing their mistake and recognizing how best to recover from it. Football is a game that relies on recovering from failure on defense every play.

 

[livefaith]

If it means we're no longer giving up 60-yard runs to drop-back quarterbacks, I'm all for it.

Me too. But, AM is a bit more than a "drop back passer". He's a pretty good runner when opportunities arise. He burned us pretty bad in one of the times in Gainesville too.

 

[KBVol]

Me too. But, AM is a bit more than a "drop back passer". He's a pretty good runner when opportunities arise. He burned us pretty bad in one of the times in Gainesville too.

Murray is above average athletically for a QB IMO. But there's just no way he should ever rip off a 60yd run on a draw. He caught UT in man coverage and the middle was wide open, but a team/defense with legit SEC speed runs him down well before a 60 yd scamper and near td. UT just didn't have enough speed to run him down..... 7-8 other SEC teams easily did.

 

[Oskie Volum]

It's both. The biggest thing is realizing their mistake and recognizing how best to recover from it. Football is a game that relies on recovering from failure on defense every play.

Exactly. I totally agree and understand that. Just was pretty vague, and I know that the recent argument on here is whether or players lack physical speed or mental speed. Didn't know if his interview cleared it up.

People act like I said speed doesn't matter, but just said that with knowing the system they will be faster. Getting our players 1 more year in the system is going to bring out some of the physical speed that is natural. Not second guessing or knowing what to do next if they do mess up. People on here like to bash or players as if they aren't trying or as if they could do better. Changing schemes is a huge factor I don't care how fast a players 40 speed is. I'd take a DB with 2 solid yrs in the system with avg (for the position) speed than the fastest man in the world thrown out there for a series.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[AboveAllNations]

This times roughly a thousand. You get great secondary play when elite, legit SEC speed DBs are well coached and know their assignments, positioning etc.

But at some point, a well coached 4.7 guy in the right position ain't checking a 4.4 WR. I think of last year's Bama game when our nickel walk-on Toney or Swafford (don't recall which) was in the right position, but had to play off Amari Cooper a couple extra steps because of the speed disparity. MCarron recognized it, rose up and threw a quick screen to Cooper in the slot, who ran right past our nickel untouched for a td. A faster, more athletic DB right there, in that same position, either makes the play after a minimal gain, or is playing up on Cooper a little closer and McCarron doesn't even check to the throw.

You make a great point, but our struggles on defense over the past few years haven't entirely been attributable to a lack of team speed. You can hide slower corners by going with Cover 2 zone schemes that don't require them to turn around and run with people - just ask Rhonde Barber, a Pro Bowl 4.6 corner who stuck around in Tampa for what felt like 20 years. Our defensive coordinators the past few years could've done more to help mask our shortcomings. Hopefully this will be a non-issue going forward, with the DBs we have coming in...

 

[oregonvol]

How fast will they need to be to make up for mistakes like this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxhgITqg1sg[/youtube]

 

[Recoil]

How fast will they need to be to make up for mistakes like this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxhgITqg1sg[/youtube]

I still say that receiver came out of the stands.

 

[KBVol]

You make a great point, but our struggles on defense over the past few years haven't entirely been attributable to a lack of team speed. You can hide slower corners by going with Cover 2 zone schemes that don't require them to turn around and run with people - just ask Rhonde Barber, a Pro Bowl 4.6 corner who stuck around in Tampa for what felt like 20 years. Our defensive coordinators the past few years could've done more to help mask our shortcomings. Hopefully this will be a non-issue going forward, with the DBs we have coming in...

Agree. Always gonna play faster when you know what you're doing, when the scheme is sound. We saw the horrors of what can happen when you're slow, relatively unathletic and you're completely confused by arguably the worst DC in the history of college football in Sal Sunseri..... you give up 700+yds and 40 pts to a bad Troy team.

That being said, I still think our lack of DB talent trumped our DB coaching deficiencies/scheming, to whatever extent those were last year. No doubt the coaches could've done better, but there were tons of examples where the opposing player just looked like he was goofing input DBs and LBs as they ran away from them.

At different times we had 3 walkons playing in the secondary....Arnold, Swafford, Toney. Coleman is being moved to nickel this year because he's not a true SEC level cover corner, and it showed quite often. By far our best DB was a 3 star rated true freshman who arrived on campus 8-9 weeks before the season started. Guess the point is that scheme can only cover up so much for so long until your lack of speed, vs teams with superior speed and athletic ability. The difference in speed seemed to be particularly striking vs the better teams on our schedule.