Recruiting Football Talk VIII

#125,654
#125,654
BigOrangeTrain said:
AD over Jokic is a joke.
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I will admit in their head to head playoff matchups recently Jokic has dominated AD. But in terms of overall impact I would still prefer having an elite two way big like AD on my team than the defensive liability that is Jokic.

I think it's easier to build a championship team around AD than Jokic. I also think you can add AD to more teams and they instantly get better versus Jokic whose lack of defense would be problematic.
 
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#125,655
#125,655
Devo182 said:
Must be.

3x MVP vs...a very good player.

5-yr PER avg of 32 vs 25.5...

It's not close.

Top-3 (if not #1) vs maybe (probably?) borderline top-10.
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If it's a stat padding competition I'll admit nobody is better in NBA history than Jokic. But if we're talking about winning basketball give me the elite two way big who has similar offensive production and significantly better defense.

Its wild to me how fans ignore 50% of the game. My theory is because there aren't as many stats for tracking how good a player is on defense most fans just ignore it as being less important. I on the other hand give defense as much weight as offense when judging elite basketball players.

AD is better on both sides on the court than Jokic. That isn't debatable regardless of how good Jokic is at putting up stats.
 
#125,657
#125,657
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I will admit in their head to head playoff matchups recently Jokic has dominated AD. But in terms of overall impact I would still prefer having an elite two way big like AD on my team than the defensive liability that is Jokic.

I think it's easier to build a championship team around AD than Jokic. I also think you can add AD to more teams and they instantly get better versus Jokic whose lack of defense would be problematic.
Click to expand...
Jokic is the best player in basketball. His defense is not bad at all.

Yeah AD would be better than the most efficient/skilled big man in the history of basketball 😂
 
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#125,658
#125,658
Devo182 said:
Must be.

3x MVP vs...a very good player.

5-yr PER avg of 32 vs 25.5...

It's not close.

Top-3 (if not #1) vs maybe (probably?) borderline top-10.
Click to expand...
PlanetVolunteer said:
Jokic is the best player in basketball. His defense is not bad at all.

Yeah AD would be better than the most efficient/skilled big man in the history of basketball 😂
Click to expand...
 
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#125,666
#125,666
PlanetVolunteer said:
Jokic is the best player in basketball. His defense is not bad at all.

Yeah AD would be better than the most efficient/skilled big man in the history of basketball 😂
Click to expand...

The Denver Nuggets are currently 25th in opponents points per game and 21st in defensive rating. Nobody has a bigger impact on a team’s defense for better or for worse than the center. His responsibility is to protect the rim from being attacked by the offense. Anybody who has watched Jokic play knows he's not a rim protector. Even worse he's generally a matador on the perimeter when defending pick n rolls. Opposing players constantly beat him on drives to the rim. A lot of times it looks like he's not even trying. Jokic's only saving grace is he's decent as a low post defender thanks to his girth. However, it's not 1996 anymore. Low post offense is pretty much a lost art in the modern NBA which is all about spacing and shooting 3s.

In the modern NBA, Nikola Jokic's lack of defense is extremely detrimental to the Denver Nuggets. It's why they've not been close to winning a championship the past two years despite their brilliance offensively.
 
#125,671
#125,671
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I will admit in their head to head playoff matchups recently Jokic has dominated AD. But in terms of overall impact I would still prefer having an elite two way big like AD on my team than the defensive liability that is Jokic.

I think it's easier to build a championship team around AD than Jokic. I also think you can add AD to more teams and they instantly get better versus Jokic whose lack of defense would be problematic.
Click to expand...
AD can’t carry a team. Jokic can. Your point is completely invalid
 
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#125,673
#125,673
Smokey123 said:
AD can’t carry a team. Jokic can. Your point is completely invalid
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AD did a pretty good job carrying the Lakers in 2020 to a championship. In 2019 they were a lottery team without AD. Then in 2020 they win the championship after adding him. He also led the team in almost every stat outside of assists and was overwhelmingly the best player on the team according to the advanced stats.

LeBron only outplayed him in the Finals against an overmatched Heat team which allowed him to steal the Finals MVP. But for the totality of that season and playoff run AD was the clear cut best player on that Lakers team according to every metric.
 
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#125,674
#125,674
Jokic is the best player in the NBA right now, I don't care what he does on defense.

3rd in the league in PPG, 3rd in the league in RPG, 2nd in the league in APG and the only player averaging a triple double. Has played in 43 games of 49. Shooting 57% FG, 47% 3PT and 82% at the FT line as a big... he's a create a player

He's also 4th in SPG even though he doesn't play defense...

So my top 5 current players
1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. SGA
4. Tatum
5. Wemby


AD is a top 5 big though, but the 3 above I'd have ahead of him and KAT could also have a case.
 
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