Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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#186,426
#186,426
volKano said:
MJ would own today’s league even more than he owned the 80’s. If his dad didn’t get killed he would have stayed with basketball and have a couple more championships. Also he would get smashed and get back up like a man instead of flopping around like sissy. You can say Lebron can do everything MJ could do but 60 pounds heavier but he never had the heart and killer instinct MJ had. It’s like comparing Akeem and Dwight Howard.
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I was referring to their athletic ability, not what they can do with a basketball. Lebron beating the 16 GSW's is still a better feat than anything MJ accomplished though.
 
#186,432
#186,432
drvenner said:
And yet, Wilt won only two championships.
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Bill Russell and the Celtics, man. Too great of a team for him to get past. The same as Ted Williams against Mickey Mantle and the Yankees; and, Peyton Manning against Tom Brady and the Pats. Classic examples of the Greats not being able to beat the great Teams.
 
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#186,433
#186,433
SugarCC said:
Bill Russell and the Celtics, man. Too great of a team for him to get past. The same as Ted Williams against Mickey Mantle and the Yankees; and, Peyton Manning against Tim Brady and the Pats. Classic examples of the Greats not being able to beat the great Teams.
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Well, Peyton did on multiple occasions with two teams
 
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#186,434
#186,434
SugarCC said:
I don't care if he was playing against cardboard cutouts. If you can't see it, I suggest an eye exam.
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He was a god of an athlete by their standards and would still be one of the best athletes at the 5 position today. He wouldn't stand out nearly as much today though.
 
#186,437
#186,437
johnfnkelly said:
He was a god of an athlete by their standards and would still be one of the best athletes at the 5 position today. He wouldn't stand out nearly as much today though.
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Oh, I agree with that; not nearly as much, but...he would still stand out. Although, what would he look like with today's training and conditioning and recovery, and all that jazz. Mind-blowing to think about Wilt in the 21st Century.

Thing is, I've never been a big Wilt fan; but, reality is reality. The man was from another planet.
 
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#186,438
#186,438
SugarCC said:
Read about the Hammer and Nails dunk one time. He would put the ball in his armpit, like a headlock, and he would jump and be so high over the rim, he would punch the ball through the hoop. SLAM magazine, who did a poll of the greatest dunks ever, called it the greatest of all time, even over Jordan's Kiss The Rim...and all the other Jordan dunks, take your pick.
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Depending on what story you believe (or don't believe) he had anywhere from a 40" to 48" vertical leap........ At 7'1". 😱
 
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#186,439
#186,439
johnfnkelly said:
I was referring to their athletic ability, not what they can do with a basketball. Lebron beating the 16 GSW's is still a better feat than anything MJ accomplished though.
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That GSW team didn't have Durant and I'm not sure why Lebron gets all the credit when Kyrie had an elite series. Also worth noting Draymond was suspended for game 5, the first elimination game of the series.

Was it an epic performance by Lebron? absolutely. But when you look at what Kyrie did as well as how badly Curry played it makes it less impressive to me at least.

The following 2 finals series rematches, Cleveland got waxed 8-1 once Durant came to town and Kyrie left (for the 2nd one).
 
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#186,442
#186,442
SugarCC said:
Bill Russell and the Celtics, man. Too great of a team for him to get past. The same as Ted Williams against Mickey Mantle and the Yankees; and, Peyton Manning against Tim Brady and the Pats. Classic examples of the Greats not being able to beat the great Teams.
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Peyton has a winning record against Brady in the playoffs. Peyton's problem was typically the defense, plus he was quite lackluster in the playoffs and big games as well.
 
#186,447
#186,447
MoCo_Vol said:
6 SB titles vs 2 SB titles though. Huge Peyton fanatic, but SugarCC is right not every great player gets to play for great teams. A few other great examples, Barry Sanders & Allen Iverson
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I've always argued that if Peyton and Bill had been matched up that they would have a ton of titles as well. There was a special once about how each planned for the other, and they were the only opponents respectively who had no repetitive traits to take advantage of. They were a perfect nemesis for one another.
 
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#186,448
#186,448
MoCo_Vol said:
That GSW team didn't have Durant and I'm not sure why Lebron gets all the credit when Kyrie had an elite series. Also worth noting Draymond was suspended for game 5, the first elimination game of the series.

Was it an epic performance by Lebron? absolutely. But when you look at what Kyrie did as well as how badly Curry played it makes it less impressive to me at least.

The following 2 finals series rematches, Cleveland got waxed 8-1 once Durant came to town and Kyrie left (for the 2nd one).
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That GSW team won 73 games? lmao who cares if they didn't have Durant. Anybody who counts those L's with KD against Lebron's legacy are delusional. 16-17/17-18 GSW's were the two most talented teams to ever grace a basketball court.

I guess Jordan doesn't deserve any credit for his rings considering he had arguably two of the best defenders of all time on his teams.
 
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#186,449
#186,449
SugarCC said:
Bill Russell and the Celtics, man. Too great of a team for him to get past. The same as Ted Williams against Mickey Mantle and the Yankees; and, Peyton Manning against Tim Brady and the Pats. Classic examples of the Greats not being able to beat the great Teams.
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100%

Most younger folks have recency bias. It's natural to do so, I did when I was younger as well. People forget free agency did not exist back in those days. So, using the number of championships to gauge player greatness is not valid. Other than drafted picks without a lottery like today, teams had to trade to get better and it happened infrequently, unlike today. If they had a superstar they kept him if they could afford him and he would use up a lot of the payroll. Professional team ownership was a hobby for the wealthy that often lost money, so they would keep a close watch on payroll. When television took root with professional sports it evolved.

I grew up a Cincinnati Royals fan, a franchise that had been moved from Rochester, NY. Most pro BB fans remember or have heard about the Big O. He played with a couple of really good players to form the nucleus of the team, Jerry Lucas and Wayne Embry. Big O was a perineal AS and won the MVP. He and Lucas are in the HOF. When he was traded to the Bucks around 1970, the Royals future in Cincinnati become toast - he meant that much to the team. A little over a year later they were sold and moved to Kansas City, which was later moved and sold to ownership in Sacramento.

Still remember as kid sneaking my little transistor radio under my pillow at bed time to listen to a half or so of their games before falling asleep. Good times.
 
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#186,450
#186,450
I posted this on VQ. Would be interested in the RF thoughts:

Just looking over the roster, who do you think gets drafted off of this team? I'm not going to count any of the freshman class because we haven't seen them (except Salter for reasons mentioned below), but just looking at potential, these are my thoughts:

No brainer
There's only one in this category unfortunately:

Cade Mays. He'll be picked in the first few rounds, probably the second next year.

Highly Likely:

HB/Milton/Salter. One of these three will be drafted off of this team if not more than one. I only say that because Heup's reputation. He will get one of these guys to the league. That's what he does. He develop's QB's.

Velus Jones. I believe that he's going to have a breakout year. Has the speed and measurables, played in a bad offense last year. He's going to put up big numbers in this offense and become a late round pick somewhere.

Jalin Hyatt. Again, elite measurables. Needs to add some size, but has all the speed. This is a kid who will be our number 1 receiver sooner rather than later. He's going to be a star in this offense with his speed and running Heup's system. Will be a pick in the first 3 rounds imo when he's eligible.

Darnell Wright. Kid has the talent, size, and mobility. Word out of camp is that he's having his best spring. 2 years under Elarbee and he will be picked and picked somewhere in rounds 2-4 imo.

Probable:

Tyler Baron. I believe this is another kid that has tons of talent and just needs development and experience. He's very strong, has the work ethic, and is already stepping up as a leader on this team. I expect big things from him over the next couple of years and I predict he ends up being taken in the draft.

Calloway/Holiday. Similar to the QB's above, one of these two, if not both, will end up being really good players here. Again, you can't teach 4.3 speed, and these two guys have it. They will be big players in this offense, if not this year, next year especially. Both have received rave reviews and will make an impact on the field. NFL teams love speed and these two guys have it. I bet one or both are picked up in the draft by the time they're done here.

Beckwith: Again, elite athlete. Whether he's a TE, RB, or receiver, Heup will find a way to get him the ball in space, and he's going to impress. He'll be a very good player here imo and will end up getting taken in the draft.

Bryson Eason. Has the size of a DE but the speed and quickness of a LB. He's going to have a breakout season this year on our DL and he's just a sophomore. 2 more years under Garner and he will be taken in the draft.

Tamarion McDonald. A guy we took a flyer on in order to get Eason. Will be starting at safety this year and has 3 years remaining. Has great ball skills, tackling ability, and instincts. Will be one of those guys that Willy Moe puts in the league if he continues to develop.

Jabari Small. A guy who was probably the best pure RB on our roster last year, but Jermy wouldn't play him. He's going to have a big year this year will have a chance to get drafted by the time he's finished at TN imo.

Spraggins. That dude is going to be a stud. Started some last year even as a freshman. I believe this kid will be a very good player in this league which will lead to him likely getting drafted. I mean, teams took long snappers last week. Spraggins is going to be a very good OG.

(Yes I know a lot of these are projections that's why they're in the probable category).

Needs a big year:

Alontae. Taylor has the speed and tackling ability. But if he wants to get drafted, he's going to have to truly breakout this year. I thought he was going to last year after the first few games when he was playing well, but he began struggling again. Hopefully Banks can get enough out of him that an NFL team takes a chance on him. Likely UDFA.

Princeton Fant. This is one that I asked the guys about in the chat last night. I believe he has a shot. He is a great athlete. Has speed, can run good routes, and has good hands, but has not played in a TE friendly offense and he had a QB who couldn't throw the ball over the middle. Once HB was inserted he became much more of a factor in the offense. Golesh really turned around the TE position at Iowa State when he was there. If he can do the same thing here, Princeton may have a shot with a breakout season. He's one to keep an eye on imo.

Young guys too early to tell:

We'll see what becomes of Big O, Morven Joseph, Roman Harrison, Elijah Simmons, and Cooper Mays,
 
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