Recruiting forum off topic thread (no politics, covid, or hot button issues)

[mykidturnedmeintoaVOL]

Good lord and here I thought Dabo was the only one inculcating his evangelism on his program.

No offense. I see your daily post and have no issue with it. I am just of the faction that believes in separation of church and state and thinks it more exclusive rather than inclusive to brand your sports program to a certain religion. It’s one thing to let your faith guide your morality. It’s another to say your program is driven by a faith as opposed to the general morals that most organized religion aims to espouse. If I were a nonreligious or non Christian athlete, that statement would make me question my participation in that program or otherwise dissuade me from joining it.

Baylor is a private Baptist university…there is no state to separate from. So his statements are appropriate for student athletes looking at Baylor.

 

[DD4ME]

Good lord and here I thought Dabo was the only one inculcating his evangelism on his program.

No offense. I see your daily post and have no issue with it. I am just of the faction that believes in separation of church and state and thinks it more exclusive rather than inclusive to brand your sports program to a certain religion. It’s one thing to let your faith guide your morality. It’s another to say your program is driven by a faith as opposed to the general morals that most organized religion aims to espouse. If I were a nonreligious or non Christian athlete, that statement would make me question my participation in that program or otherwise dissuade me from joining it.

Faith is complex. I can fully respect your perspective. If this was a state institution it would resonate more, but you may not have been aware.

Baylor University in Waco, Texas, is a private Christian university and a nationally ranked research institution. Chartered in 1845 by the Republic of Texas through the efforts of Baptist pioneers, Baylor is the oldest continually operating university in Texas.

 

[Adam Sandler]

Odd thing to say about a coach who coaches at a Christian school

Baylor is a Christian school? I had no idea. I thought I knew all the D1 schools that were religion specific: BYU, Notre Dame, SMU, DBU (baseball), Boston college.

Turns out I don’t. I forgot about Duke also. Georgetown and Villanova too. I’m sure there’s more.

Thanks for the call-out.

 

[Adam Sandler]

Faith is complex. I can fully respect your perspective. If this was a state institution it would resonate more, but you may not have been aware.

Baylor University in Waco, Texas, is a private Christian university and a nationally ranked research institution. Chartered in 1845 by the Republic of Texas through the efforts of Baptist pioneers, Baylor is the oldest continually operating university in Texas.

I had no idea. I think Im shocked that such large institutions are still thriving under a religious mandate in an increasing agnostic or nondenominational society. Admittedly I have never paid much attention to demographic labels, which explains my lack of knowledge of such institutions, for better or worse.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

I had no idea. I think Im shocked that such large institutions are still thriving under a religious mandate in an increasing agnostic or nondenominational society. Admittedly I have never paid much attention to demographic labels, which explains my lack of knowledge of such institutions, for better or worse.

Well, there's Notre Dame. But I get what you mean. Still, a number of churches are still formally affiliated with specific sects, and many are still quite serious about it.

 

[Adam Sandler]

I liked for Separation of Church and State comment. Though, the specifics here are a touch different.

I should hope that if I was a Baylor student athlete that I knew it was a Christian school lol. Really showing my ignorance here.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

I should hope that if I was a Baylor student athlete that I knew it was a Christian school lol. Really showing my ignorance here.

I believe in separation of church and state as well but don't think even public employees should be barred from professions of faith so long as they do not use their faith to violate the law and constitutions to which they swore an oath.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Good lord and here I thought Dabo was the only one inculcating his evangelism on his program.

No offense. I see your daily post and have no issue with it. I am just of the faction that believes in separation of church and state and thinks it more exclusive rather than inclusive to brand your sports program to a certain religion. It’s one thing to let your faith guide your morality. It’s another to say your program is driven by a faith as opposed to the general morals that most organized religion aims to espouse. If I were a nonreligious or non Christian athlete, that statement would make me question my participation in that program or otherwise dissuade me from joining it.

You really think Baylors players don't like it? I don't think Drew hides it...players that go there obviously accept it.

You do know that Baylor is a private Christian school...right?

 

[volbeast33]

Good lord and here I thought Dabo was the only one inculcating his evangelism on his program.

No offense. I see your daily post and have no issue with it. I am just of the faction that believes in separation of church and state and thinks it more exclusive rather than inclusive to brand your sports program to a certain religion. It’s one thing to let your faith guide your morality. It’s another to say your program is driven by a faith as opposed to the general morals that most organized religion aims to espouse. If I were a nonreligious or non Christian athlete, that statement would make me question my participation in that program or otherwise dissuade me from joining it.

you do know that Baylor is a private christian school…..

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I had no idea. I think Im shocked that such large institutions are still thriving under a religious mandate in an increasing agnostic or nondenominational society. Admittedly I have never paid much attention to demographic labels, which explains my lack of knowledge of such institutions, for better or worse.

The condescension is strong with this one..lol

 

[Adam Sandler]

I believe in separation of church and state as well but don't think even public employees should be barred from professions of faith so long as they do not use their faith to violate the law and constitutions to which they swore an oath.

It was a faulty observation on my part without the knowledge of Baylor being a Christian school.

Agreed you can’t restrict free speech or freedom to practice religion. I was saying when you are employed and responsible for the reputation of a whole, to publicly proclaim and espouse values that don’t necessarily represent the whole can be dangerous in many ways. I think about Dabo at Clemson as the classic example. It’s not a Christian school but his openly Christian football program excludes or disuades non Christian athletes from being participants there. Additionally when you have a sports program that has as much influence as that one, those ideals bleed into the universities overall population. Whether he believes it or not, he’s inadvertently (or potentially intentionally) created an environment that creates division and prejudice towards “non-believers” in an otherwise not specifically so atmosphere.

 

[Adam Sandler]

You really think Baylors players don't like it? I don't think Drew hides it...players that go there obviously accept it.

You do know that Baylor is a private Christian school...right?

I did not. Thank you.

 

[Adam Sandler]

you do know that Baylor is a private christian school…..

Clearly, I did not.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

It was a faulty observation on my part without the knowledge of Baylor being a Christian school.

Agreed you can’t restrict free speech or freedom to practice religion. I was saying when you are employed and responsible for the reputation of a whole, to publicly proclaim and espouse values that don’t necessarily represent the whole can be dangerous in many ways. I think about Dabo at Clemson as the classic example. It’s not a Christian school but his openly Christian football program excludes or disuades non Christian athletes from being participants there. Additionally when you have a sports program that has as much influence as that one, those ideals bleed into the universities overall population. Whether he believes it or not, he’s inadvertently (or potentially intentionally) created an environment that creates division and prejudice towards “non-believers” in an otherwise not specifically so atmosphere.

I don't think you meant anything by it. Unless you've looked into Baylor specifically and only know them through sports there's no particular reason to know it's a private religious university. I'm just saying, things like where that public high school coach got sued for praying on the middle of the field (not requiring anyone to pray with him, though some players and staff chose to) are overreaches w/r/t separating church and state.

 

[Adam Sandler]

The condescension is strong with this one..lol

Not sure condescension is the appropriate word there. I don’t see myself as superior to more strictly religiously inclined peoples. I know many very religious people that I respect entirely. I just don’t agree with the evangelism, specifically I don’t appreciate the public proliferation of ideals that I would say are generally condescending themselves (as in they are good and right and other ways must be wrong and indecent). One can have morality without being religious or being of a certain religion. The message that they aren’t is a dangerous one I do not agree with or support. And it is rampant, though I know many Christians that don’t push their faith on others and I respect the heck out of them for it.

 

[Adam Sandler]

I don't think you meant anything by it. Unless you've looked into Baylor specifically and only know them through sports there's no particular reason to know it's a private religious university. I'm just saying, things like where that public high school coach got sued for praying on the middle of the field (not requiring anyone to pray with him, though some players and staff chose to) are overreaches w/r/t separating church and state.

Thank you, that’s correct. I had no knowledge of Baylor outside their sports programs, specifically football and more recently basketball.

Is that because the students were minors? Might have been different had they been adults. Got to be very careful when you are entrusted with the youth. But I think a stern conversation would have sufficed? Sueing over something that was not mandatory or with ill intent seems a bit wicked itself, a consequence of an increasingly litigious society.

 

[Orange_Crush]

It was a faulty observation on my part without the knowledge of Baylor being a Christian school.

Agreed you can’t restrict free speech or freedom to practice religion. I was saying when you are employed and responsible for the reputation of a whole, to publicly proclaim and espouse values that don’t necessarily represent the whole can be dangerous in many ways. I think about Dabo at Clemson as the classic example. It’s not a Christian school but his openly Christian football program excludes or disuades non Christian athletes from being participants there. Additionally when you have a sports program that has as much influence as that one, those ideals bleed into the universities overall population. Whether he believes it or not, he’s inadvertently (or potentially intentionally) created an environment that creates division and prejudice towards “non-believers” in an otherwise not specifically so atmosphere.

Clemson has recruited fine while Dabo's been there, and there's been no reports of attempted witch burnings. I think you're inventing problems.

 

[Orange_Crush]

specifically I don’t appreciate the public proliferation of ideals that I would say are generally condescending themselves (as in they are good and right and other ways must be wrong and indecent).

It's incredible that you didn't note the irony in this as you typed it.

 

[Adam Sandler]

Clemson has recruited fine while Dabo's been there, and there's been no reports of attempted witch burnings. I think you're inventing problems.

Well, the overwhelming majority of America, especially the south, is Christian so that makes sense. I should hope though that it doesn’t take such a drastic occurrence to recognize the inherent dangers being created. I’m not inventing problems. I’m warning of the complacency that can let them arise.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Well, the overwhelming majority of America, especially the south, is Christian so that makes sense. I should hope though that it doesn’t take such a drastic occurrence to recognize the inherent dangers being created. I’m not inventing problems. I’m warning of the complacency that can let them arise.

So, Dabo only recruits southerners?

You are caricaturing Christians, sneaking in the assumption that they are all intolerant assholes that can't disagree with other people about metaphysical beliefs while still accepting them as peers and treating them with respect.

You are also holding Christianity to a standard that you apparently won't hold other metaphysical structures to. I.e. Christianity is narrowminded and judgy because it thinks it is correct and others are wrong.

But that can be said of every religion/worldview. Buddhism's beliefs differ from Christianity, else Buddhism would be Christianity. But you don't seem to hold Buddhism to that same critique. Atheism differs greatly from Christianity, and obviously thinks they are correct. Hell, YOU critique Christianity but I guess you won't hold yourself to that same criticism per condescension and judginess for having differing beliefs that you believe to be correct beliefs.

At the end of the day, no group fully agrees with every other group. And generally, people believe things because they believe them to be true. It's seems odd to single out one group for doing so, no?

 

[Girth Brooks]

Not sure condescension is the appropriate word there. I don’t see myself as superior to more strictly religiously inclined peoples. I know many very religious people that I respect entirely. I just don’t agree with the evangelism, specifically I don’t appreciate the public proliferation of ideals that I would say are generally condescending themselves (as in they are good and right and other ways must be wrong and indecent). One can have morality without being religious or being of a certain religion. The message that they aren’t is a dangerous one I do not agree with or support. And it is rampant, though I know many Christians that don’t push their faith on others and I respect the heck out of them for it.

You cannot be a true follower of Christ and not offend others. Matthew 28 commands all Christians to fulfill the Great Commission, and you do that by telling others about the hope found in Christ and Christ alone. Irreligious people look for reasons to be offended because they’re arrogant and beholden to their religion—sin and dishonoring God.

This is not my opinion. It is found throughout the Bible. Paul was a highly religious Jew that murdered Christians. After being blinded on the road to Damascus, he eventually became arguably the greatest missionary during the early church age, perhaps to ever live. How many do you think he, Peter, James, Andrew and the other apostles offended? Enough for every apostle (sans John) to die as martyrs!

 

[KB5252]

You cannot be a true follower of Christ and not offend others. Matthew 28 commands all Christians to fulfill the Great Commission, and you do that by telling others about the hope found in Christ and Christ alone. Irreligious people look for reasons to be offended because they’re arrogant and beholden to their religion—sin and dishonoring God.

This is not my opinion. It is found throughout the Bible. Paul was a highly religious Jew that murdered Christians. After being blinded on the road to Damascus, he eventually became arguably the greatest missionary during the early church age, perhaps to ever live. How many do you think he, Peter, James, Andrew and the other apostles offended? Enough for every apostle (sans John) to die as martyrs!

Above and beyond that you can't have any honest conversation with anyone without being willing to offend. Truth is what it is, even if we didn't want to hear it.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

It was a faulty observation on my part without the knowledge of Baylor being a Christian school.

Agreed you can’t restrict free speech or freedom to practice religion. I was saying when you are employed and responsible for the reputation of a whole, to publicly proclaim and espouse values that don’t necessarily represent the whole can be dangerous in many ways. I think about Dabo at Clemson as the classic example. It’s not a Christian school but his openly Christian football program excludes or disuades non Christian athletes from being participants there. Additionally when you have a sports program that has as much influence as that one, those ideals bleed into the universities overall population. Whether he believes it or not, he’s inadvertently (or potentially intentionally) created an environment that creates division and prejudice towards “non-believers” in an otherwise not specifically so atmosphere.

This may help. . . did you know Wake Forest is a religious affiliated school?

How about Duke?

There are a few on that list that may surprise people.

2010-2011 Division I School Affiliations | RPIRatings.com

Latest Division I school affiliation statistics

rpiratings.com

 

[Adam Sandler]

So, Dabo only recruits southerners?

You are caricaturing Christians, sneaking in the assumption that they are all intolerant assholes that can't disagree with other people about metaphysical beliefs while still accepting them as peers and treating them with respect.

You are also holding Christianity to a standard that you apparently won't hold other metaphysical structures to. I.e. Christianity is narrowminded and judgy because it thinks it is correct and others are wrong.

But that can be said of every religion/worldview. Buddhism's beliefs differ from Christianity, else Buddhism would be Christianity. But you don't seem to hold Buddhism to that same critique. Atheism differs greatly from Christianity, and obviously thinks they are correct. Hell, YOU critique Christianity but I guess you won't hold yourself to that same criticism per condescension and judginess for having differing beliefs that you believe to be correct beliefs.

At the end of the day, no group fully agrees with every other group. And generally, people believe things because they believe them to be true. It's seems odd to single out one group for doing so, no?

I don’t understand the point of the first question.

As about the statement about my feelings towards Christians, could not be farther from the truth. I do not make that assumption. I have no ill will towards Christians in their entirety. Where do you think I stated that all Christians are intolerant assholes? That’s just not true. I know many Christians that are some of the purest and most loving people I’ve ever met. I do not characterize an entire populous based on the label of their collective belief system. That’s actually what I’m standing up to.

My statement wasn’t about a specific belief system. It was about the action of intentionally spreading belief systems based on the premise that they are the good or correct others are bad. I can’t help it that many (not all) Christians have been taught they need to spread the all good word to others that aren’t yet believers in order to be “good Christians”. That’s my experience. That, I do have a problem with. That, I have not experienced from other religions. Maybe it’s just a function of the sample size, but I have not experienced that from other religions and I most certainly have from SOME (not all) Christians. I myself am Jewish, and I’ve never shouted it from the mountain tops or claimed it to be correct. I actually like it about it that their is so much questioning in it.

I hold Christianity to the same standard that I hold all belief systems to. It is admittedly a high one, and hard to meet. That said, I have not stood here and proclaimed my belief “system” to be right while others wrong. However, I will stand here and say that the action of publicly purporting of an entire belief system as good is wrong if it implicitly implies that others are not. If you want to discuss a belief about a specific action or topic, I’m all for it. But I’m not going to sit here and let the label of “good” or “[insert belief system here]” be touted just as I would not tolerate a republican characterize democrats as “[insert gross generalization here]” OR VICE VERSA. There is no correct at the broader level. Just like there is no incorrect.

Drew could have said the same thing as a Jew or Muslim or whatever and I would have reacted the same way. Dabo could be preaching Judaism or Buddhism or Muslim or whatever and I would still believe that practice to be wrong in that setting. I resent identity politics. I resent the “spread” of organized religion.

I’m sorry if it was conveyed through my post that Christianity is wrong or bad. Not the case. Just providing perspective from someone who is a minority and lives every day knowing it and weary of being judged, directly or indirectly, for it.

 

[Adam Sandler]

You cannot be a true follower of Christ and not offend others. Matthew 28 commands all Christians to fulfill the Great Commission, and you do that by telling others about the hope found in Christ and Christ alone. Irreligious people look for reasons to be offended because they’re arrogant and beholden to their religion—sin and dishonoring God.

This is not my opinion. It is found throughout the Bible. Paul was a highly religious Jew that murdered Christians. After being blinded on the road to Damascus, he eventually became arguably the greatest missionary during the early church age, perhaps to ever live. How many do you think he, Peter, James, Andrew and the other apostles offended? Enough for every apostle (sans John) to die as martyrs!

Oh boy…