Reggie White & Peyton Manning: 7th & 8th on "NFL’s Greatest 100 Players of All Time"

#51
#51
MikeVol44 said:
Sorry folks, but Jerry Rice as THE BEST to have ever put the uniform on in the NFL is a JOKE--he may have been in the top 2 or 3 best receivers, but he doesn't even belong in the top 10 on that list!

Just makes the list suspect....I love Reggie, but the fact that Joe Greene (even though I HATED the Steelers) is not even in the top 10 is laughable....
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Joe Greene came close, he was ranked 13th. I have no problem deferring to a Volunteer in choosing between these two players.

Incidentally, you and TOP both make excellent, albeit diametrically opposed points, with respect to Jerry Rice. I tend to look at the wide receiver position as uniquely vulnerable, in terms of productivity, to a lot of factors that are beyond a wideout's control. Larry Fitzgerald has been one of the best at his position for much of his career, but he has been cursed with some absolutely lousy quarterbacks. If a porous line allows a top-tier QB to go down due to injury, an elite receiver's productivity may "wither on the vine." Obviously, matchups with top cover corners may temporarily dampen productivity as well. On the other hand, Jerry Rice's gaudy stats reflect, in my mind, three things: great talent and work ethic, longevity, and being blessed with playing most of his career with two of the top quarterbacks of all time, Joe Montana and Steve Young. In his case, the ingredients for optimal success at the wide receiver position were all present and they persisted for a long, long time.
 
#52
#52
Volosaurus rex said:
Joe Greene came close, he was ranked 13th. I have no problem deferring to a Volunteer in choosing between these two players.

Incidentally, you and TOP both make excellent, albeit diametrically opposed points, with respect to Jerry Rice. I tend to look at the wide receiver position as uniquely vulnerable, in terms of productivity, to a lot of factors that are beyond a wideout's control. Larry Fitzgerald has been one of the best at his position for much of his career, but he has been cursed with some absolutely lousy quarterbacks. If a porous line allows a top-tier QB to go down due to injury, an elite receiver's productivity may "wither on the vine." Obviously, matchups with top cover corners may temporarily dampen productivity as well. On the other hand, Jerry Rice's gaudy stats reflect, in my mind, three things: great talent and work ethic, longevity, and being blessed with playing most of his career with two of the top quarterbacks of all time, Joe Montana and Steve Young. In his case, the ingredients for optimal success at the wide receiver position were all present and they persisted for a long, long time.
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I agree--many things have worked in Rice's favor--but no one can take anything from the man's work ethic! However, their defense gave their offense many more possessions...

Montana, good TEs, RBs, John Taylor, and the nature of the west coast offense worked for Rice....However, he shouldn't be in the top 10 when considering the GREATEST man to EVER PLAY THE GAME! But--that's just my own opinion...
 
#53
#53
235lbVol said:
Sorry but im not on Rice being #1 . Id put LT or Reggie best ever before him. I dont think Rices records will be touched, but I the guys like Megatron, AJ.Green are mch better pure wrs. Rice had two halloffame QBs his career plus played under Bill Walsh in the west coast offense when it was new and teams couldn't defend it. And yes, Deion and Brady need to be top 10.
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Rich Gannon was an NFL MVP with Rice catching balls for him. Rice's records should fall with the no contact rules in place now. I have no problem with Rice being the best player of all time. He was the primary target for three QB's that went to Superbowls.
 
#55
#55
thebjd said:
Rich Gannon was an NFL MVP with Rice catching balls for him. Rice's records should fall with the no contact rules in place now. I have no problem with Rice being the best player of all time. He was the primary target for three QB's that went to Superbowls.
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Gannon made the Pro Bowl from 1999 - 2002. Rice came on board in Oakland in 2001. Gannon completed 418 passes in 2002--92 to Rice, 91 to CHARLIE GARNER, 81 to Tim Brown, and 51 to Jerry Porter. It seems that Gannon's NFL MVP performance was EARNED because of his ability to THROW THE BALL in the West Coast offense--not because of Rice's presence on the field.

Thank you for proving the point I've been trying to make all along--RICE put up the numbers in his career because he came to the right team at the right time--the 49ers! He is a great athlete to be sure--and worked very hard to maintain his longevity--but he is more a product of the west coast offense and system than being qualified as the GREATEST football player of all time. :salute:
 
#56
#56
Cdywolfe said:
I know right... I always love some of the old timers they put on these list. That guy would be lucky to make a roster in today's game.

Go look at SLAM magazine's 500 greatest NBA players of all time and see some of the goofy ass white guys from the 50s and 60s they claim are better than Lebron James.
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Guys, I think the point of the typical "all time" list inherently includes the "factor" of the player's era. It's no less of an achievement to dominate an era 50 years ago, than it would be today.

A 1990 version MJ will not stand a chance of making an NBA All Star team 30 years from now. That should not lessen his superstar status and amazing accomplishments IMO.
 
#57
#57
RichRollin said:
Your comment about dudes being hung over brought back a memory. The movie Cocaine Cowboys where the ex-smuggler claimed Lynn Swann as well as a slew of Steelers purchased a bunch of blow from them, partied like hell all week end in Mia., and we're high as hell on coke when they won the Super Bowl.

On the flip side. The "slow white guys"... It's hard to compare those players to modern players. But I think if they had the sports medicine, work out supplements, etc. that they have today, some of those old schoolers would have been fine ball players to this very day.
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I wouldn't be surprised if what the ex-smuggler claims is true. However, I'd give more credence to the Max McGee incident because it has more than just third party input. Max admits he was drunk and had a hangover. Fellow players commented he reeked of alcohol that day. And he was known for his taste for night life and breaking curfew or what passed for curfews back then.
 
#58
#58
MikeVol44 said:
Gannon made the Pro Bowl from 1999 - 2002. Rice came on board in Oakland in 2001. Gannon completed 418 passes in 2002--92 to Rice, 91 to CHARLIE GARNER, 81 to Tim Brown, and 51 to Jerry Porter. It seems that Gannon's NFL MVP performance was EARNED because of his ability to THROW THE BALL in the West Coast offense--not because of Rice's presence on the field.

Thank you for proving the point I've been trying to make all along--RICE put up the numbers in his career because he came to the right team at the right time--the 49ers! He is a great athlete to be sure--and worked very hard to maintain his longevity--but he is more a product of the west coast offense and system than being qualified as the GREATEST football player of all time. :salute:
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The West Coast offense has been prevalent for over 30 years in the NFL and only one receiver has 200 TD's. Jerry Rice is the prototype for, not the product of the system. How can he not be at minimum in the top two or three?
 
#59
#59
WoodsmanVol said:
I wouldn't be surprised if what the ex-smuggler claims is true. However, I'd give more credence to the Max McGee incident because it has more than just third party input. Max admits he was drunk and had a hangover. Fellow players commented he reeked of alcohol that day. And he was known for his taste for night life and breaking curfew or what passed for curfews back then.
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The dealer/smuggler specifically stated he sold the guys cocaine. I'm not sure why he would have a reason to pick them out of the bunch 30 years later.
 
#60
#60
RichRollin said:
The dealer/smuggler specifically stated he sold the guys cocaine. I'm not sure why he would have a reason to pick them out of the bunch 30 years later.
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Well, he probably enjoyed the attention he got being in the movie and people listening to him. Might be plenty of motivation some old guy with a criminal past to lie. Picking out certain players to make his story sound more solid isn't really any proof of authenticity.

That said, maybe he was telling the truth. But, I'm just saying I wouldn't necessarily trust a known drug dealer's account.
 
#61
#61
oregonvol said:
Well, he probably enjoyed the attention he got being in the movie and people listening to him. Might be plenty of motivation some old guy with a criminal past to lie. Picking out certain players to make his story sound more solid isn't really any proof of authenticity.

That said, maybe he was telling the truth. But, I'm just saying I wouldn't necessarily trust a known drug dealer's account.
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Any theory on why he picked one particular set of players out of everyone in the history of football?
 
#62
#62
Jamal Lewis legitimately could be on this list.

21st most rushing yards all-time (10,000+, with one season lost to knee injury).
3rd most rushing yards in a single season (2,066).
2nd most rushing yardsin a single game (295).
Super Bowl champ.
 
#63
#63
RichRollin said:
Any theory on why he picked one particular set of players out of everyone in the history of football?
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What does it matter? If he was making it up, he was going to pick one set or another. Why did that lady who never met Jerome Bettis accuse him of sexual assault and not accuse Hines Ward instead?
 
#64
#64
oregonvol said:
What does it matter? If he was making it up, he was going to pick one set or another. Why did that lady who never met Jerome Bettis accuse him of sexual assault and not accuse Hines Ward instead?
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What does it matter? Ask yourself that. You went out of your way to comment on it so it must have mattered. I actually thought it was funny that he said it, that's why I brought it up to start with. If you don't think it was true then that's fine. But your reasoning is pathetic at best, and your attitude is rather dikish when nobody was really talking to you to begin with. Fair enough?
 
#65
#65
EZE said:
Jamal Lewis legitimately could be on this list.

21st most rushing yards all-time (10,000+, with one season lost to knee injury).
3rd most rushing yards in a single season (2,066).
2nd most rushing yardsin a single game (295).
Super Bowl champ.
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In terms of NFL productivity, Jamal is probably the only former Volunteer running back for which a legitimate argument can be made. Charlie Garner (55th) and Travis Henry (76th) were the next most productive, based purely on yds. rushing. See NFL Career Rushing Yards Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com. As best I can tell, however, they have only 14 running backs on the list and that is certainly a more than representative number for one position.
 
#66
#66
RichRollin said:
What does it matter? Ask yourself that. You went out of your way to comment on it so it must have mattered. I actually thought it was funny that he said it, that's why I brought it up to start with. If you don't think it was true then that's fine. But your reasoning is pathetic at best, and your attitude is rather dikish when nobody was really talking to you to begin with. Fair enough?
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Oh cool, another master of the over-reaction. It's the internet. If you don't want people to comment on what you post, stick to pen pals.
 
#68
#68
I think if Peyton gets another Super Bowl and rides off into the sunset, he will be definitely in the top 3.
 
#69
#69
livefaith said:
Guys, I think the point of the typical "all time" list inherently includes the "factor" of the player's era. It's no less of an achievement to dominate an era 50 years ago, than it would be today.

A 1990 version MJ will not stand a chance of making an NBA All Star team 30 years from now. That should not lessen his superstar status and amazing accomplishments IMO.
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Its already been 15yrs since MJ's rein, and there's still nobody close. 30yrs from now,same story. Jordan will still be the best ever...id like to see someone better, but I really don't think it will happen.
 
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