Religion of peace spokesman expresses love for Christian leader.

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gsvol

gsvol

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#1
Egyptian Cleric Wagdi Ghoneim Praises Allah for the Death of Coptic Pope Shenouda III: "May Allah Exact Revenge from Him in the Hellfire" - Atlas Shrugs

Egyptian Cleric Wagdi Ghoneim Praises Allah for the Death of Coptic Pope Shenouda III: "May Allah Exact Revenge from Him in the Hellfire"

Tolerance! Peace! Interfaith dialogue! Bridges! Building bridges (to Islam)! Obama say, "respect it!" The Islamc spring -- this is Obama's legacy and what future generations will curse him for.
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One religion is not better, more pious, or more tolerant than another.
 
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#3
Robert Spencer: Sex, Jihad and Islam - Atlas Shrugs

They hate us because we’re pigs. No, not the apes and pigs into which Allah transforms the Sabbath-breaking Jews in the Qur’an (2:62-66; 5:59-60; 7:166), but pigs as in…dogs. Wolves. Immoral, lecherous, lustful, fornicating creeps. Western immorality is a frequent feature of the Islamic critique of the contemporary West, as well as a target for the morality police of Sharia states.
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#11
#11
I think Anne Rice said it best. She actually has a very interesting story and became a believer in Christ after using the Bible for research for one of her books.

And for those who may not know, "Christianity" is actually a somewhat derogatory term that is used in the Bible only three times. It was used by those who chose to mock the followers of Jesus. So it started off with negative connotations and in many ways has gotten worse over time.

However, to compare the teachings and actions of Jesus to those of Islam is absolutely ridiculous.

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bamawriter said:
Islam also condemns non-believers to an eternity of punishment. So non-Muslims get it bad on both ends.
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when discussing eternity I don't think 70yrs will make a big difference

So do all non-believers go to the same place or are their segregated areas? Just wondering because it could be really boring if we can't mingle
 
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utvolpj said:
when discussing eternity I don't think 70yrs will make a big difference
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Perhaps. I'm not a big one on using fear as a motivator for belief. I don't believe in Christ because I'm afraid of hell.

But from a completely practical standpoint, which would you rather have presented to you: "If you don't believe, when you pass you'll be subjected to punishment for all of eternity," or "If you don't believe I'm going to assault you and kill you, and then you will be subjected to punishment for all of eternity"?
 
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bamawriter said:
Perhaps. I'm not a big one on using fear as a motivator for belief. I don't believe in Christ because I'm afraid of hell.

But from a completely practical standpoint, which would you rather have presented to you: "If you don't believe, when you pass you'll be subjected to punishment for all of eternity," or "If you don't believe I'm going to assault you and kill you, and then you will be subjected to punishment for all of eternity"?
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well when you put it that way neither sounds like something I want any part of in my life.

Can the promise of heaven exist without fear of a hell?
 
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utvolpj said:
no it just condemns non-believers to hell for all of eternity

which is greater: 70yrs or eternity?
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I see it as everyone is already condemned. It is up to each person to decide how to escape condemnation. I believe Jesus rescued me from this fate. If others disagree that's their choice and I respect them for making a well thought out decision.
The people who get on my nerves are the ones who don't know why they believe what they think they believe.
 
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bamawriter said:
But I'm betting one sounds better than the other.
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I'm sorry but the "we'll let you live 70yrs before subjecting you to eternal torture" isn't really a solid option. And when viewing the short time of life on earth on the timeline of eternity you'll need a very powerful microscope to even see it. I would even say it approaches so close to zero it's not even measurable
 
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utvolpj said:
I'm sorry but the "we'll let you live 70yrs before subjecting you to eternal torture" isn't really a solid option. And when viewing the short time of life on earth on the timeline of eternity you'll need a very powerful microscope to even see it. I would even say it approaches so close to zero it's not even measurable
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Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I'm actually looking at it from the POV of a non-believer. If you don't think there is any kind of eternal judgment then you think believer A is equally as wrong as believer B. But wouldn't A's proposition be preferable to B's?
 
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orangeslice13 said:
I see it as everyone is already condemned. It is up to each person to decide how to escape condemnation. I believe Jesus rescued me from this fate. If others disagree that's their choice and I respect them for making a well thought out decision.
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Everyone outside of a particular religion is condemned by those who are on the inside. The insiders get to make the rules and profit from their post of power while living in the finite life we observe presently.

Two more abstract thoughts on this.

1) If God (of any religion) is truly omnibenevolent and omniscient, I find it really hard for people to claim that everyone is automatically "condemned" and thus need salvation.

2) If we are truly "condemned" as you claim to believe, I think the self-preservation, which is found in all living beings, breeds the innate selfishness in all of us. This selfishness/self-preservation is going to subconsciously cherry-pick and bend the various scriptures in which we are exposed to in our favor. At the most rudimentary level, that is why there are so many different "interpretations" of scripture.

orangeslice13 said:
The people who get on my nerves are the ones who don't know why they believe what they think they believe.
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I totally agree.
 
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utvolpj said:
I'm sorry but the "we'll let you live 70yrs before subjecting you to eternal torture" isn't really a solid option. And when viewing the short time of life on earth on the timeline of eternity you'll need a very powerful microscope to even see it. I would even say it approaches so close to zero it's not even measurable
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Totally agree. 70 years is a fraction of a nanosecond of eternity.
 
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PKT_VOL said:
Do you believe Christianity is better or more pious than Islam?
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So do you think they are the same because they are both considered religions?

I don't see it as a question of piety at all.

That question is beside the point.

The problem with islam is that it is a complete political and legal system that rules every aspect of it's devotee's lives and furthermore it's beliefs ensure that it is continually at war with any area or government it doesn't rule. As a matter of fact any area not ruled by islam is called 'house of war', meaning that it is the duty of all true muslims to conduct jihad in order to conquer and subdue the 'house of war.'

My original post should leave little to doubt in way of contrast between the teachings of islam and the teachings of Christianity. One only has to read the repeated statements of moslem leaders to see where they are coming from. The continuous spewing of hateful speech is just too difficult to ignore.

Do you see any difference between the teachings of Christianity and those of islam?
 
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PKT_VOL said:
Everyone outside of a particular religion is condemned by those who are on the inside. The insiders get to make the rules and profit from their post of power while living in the finite life we observe presently.
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You know from past conversations how I feel about religion and specifically the word Christian. There is to much of a difference In Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, and so on to call them all Christian but we do.
Jesus had the biggest problem with the organized religion of the day. Placing their tradition and rules on people in the place of seeking God with their hearts and minds. I think Religion is the biggest road block to many people seeking God. This is why I always defer back to personal study and meditation to determine your own value system instead of blindly following what some Preacher or Philosophy teacher said.

PKT_VOL said:
Two more abstract thoughts on this.

1) If God (of any religion) is truly omnibenevolent and omniscient, I find it really hard for people to claim that everyone is automatically "condemned" and thus need salvation.

2) If we are truly "condemned" as you claim to believe, I think the self-preservation, which is found in all living beings, breeds the innate selfishness in all of us. This selfishness/self-preservation is going to subconsciously cherry-pick and bend the various scriptures in which we are exposed to in our favor. At the most rudimentary level, that is why there are so many different "interpretations" of scripture.
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I believe that Reward/punishment and access to God in the next life (Heaven) are separate issues. The Bible is clear that everyone will be judged according to their deeds. this is for the good and the bad. As far as Condemnation is concerned that is probably a poor word choice. My view has been formed around the concept of free will. I feel for some "Going to Heaven" would be Hell. If you do not wish to be subservient to God you don't have to be. Either Go where he is or go where he is not.

I could not agree with you more about scripture and its interpretations being twisted to meet each religions needs. And here we are back at personal responsibility.



PKT_VOL said:
I totally agree.
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I'm wearing you down.:)
 
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