Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

[GAVol]

Both sides will overplay this. The right will take the opportunity to hold this up as vindication of the pre-war intelligence (it's not) and the left will try to rehash the tired "Bush used flawed intelligence on purpose" argument.

 

[volinbham]

Both sides will overplay this. The right will take the opportunity to hold this up as vindication of the pre-war intelligence (it's not) and the left will try to rehash the tired "Bush used flawed intelligence on purpose" argument.

Sad but true.

 

[CSpindizzy]

The funny thing is that Santorum came out like Chamberlain waving his document. Now there are several in the Pentagon coming out saying this is NOT to be seen as a huge program and viable weapons to be smuggled into the US used as WMD's.

Keep in mind that most of these agents can be made following instructions off of the internet. There have been several cases since 9/11 where some nut has a vial confiscated from him containing Sarin. If terrorists wanted these, they'd be better off taking instructions off the web and making their own.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Oh and whatever came of the anthrax attack we experienced here in the US? In all honesty, it's beginning to look like if you attack the US under Dubya, nothing comes of it. But if you threaten Papa Bush, you're going down..... :machinegun:

 

[volinbham]

Oh and whatever came of the anthrax attack we experienced here in the US? In all honesty, it's beginning to look like if you attack the US under Dubya, nothing comes of it. But if you threaten Papa Bush, you're going down..... :machinegun:

And who should we bomb for the anthrax?

 

[CSpindizzy]

You missed my point. We are not aggressively going after Osama. We've done little on the anthrax investigation beside pursuing one person who has since been cleared. So basically the items of terror and attacks on our soil are back burner while the Axis of Evil takes up our full attention and has done so since 9/11.

 

[rockydoc]

This information WAS released by the White House. Negroponte had it declassified and released. Santorum, close to losing his job, came out with the release from DNI. As the release stated and as many in the Pentagon say, these were very old shells pre-dating the Gulf War. This does not prove Saddam reconstituted his weapons program AFTER the Gulf War. These shells are at least 15 years old. Anyone with knowledge in EOD or even chemical warfare will tell you these shells are all but worthless to use. In their degraded state they can be used in a small crowd and possibly make some sick but these shells are by no means anywhere close to the thousands of gallons of WMD's, drones, warehouses, labs, etc. that was presented to the UN by Colin Powell. These 500 artillery shells of degraded chemical agents are no where near the threat that the Administration went with on going to war. Actually this type of items was actually expected to be found. Most of this was buried. While Saddam did not claim these items to the UN, burying them in the ground for over 15 years severely weakens their whole potential for use. You basically are taking a tank and turning it into a BB gun.

Where's your reference on this Spin? What was it that Saddam used when he killed 5,000 Kurds in one village (all contained in three artillery shells). All of America's chemical weapons are at least 40 to 50 years old. We are now in the process of spending billions to degrade these lethal weapons, most of which are just as potent as the day they were manufactured.

Before making such an absurb statement, without substantiating it, remember there are a few on this board with more than a GED degree. :bad:

 

[DAVOL]

Santorum is politically dead this is pure desperation he's so far down to casey now not even diebold can save him.
:biggrin2:

 

[U-T]

These were not the WMD that we invaded Iraq for when this started.

The funny part about this whole thing is how angry the right and left get in this argument.

The left swares these WMD mean nothing at all
The right swares these WMD show the entire war was justified

Truth lies in between as always.

 

[milohimself]

Good to see you back, marine.

 

[U-T]

Appreciate it. Board looks different

 

[milohimself]

You mean some slight adjustments freak made or the insane division of posters?

 

[U-T]

Both.

I am not back for good but just for a few days

 

[volinbham]

Both.

I am not back for good but just for a few days

Welcome back even if for just a short time. Thanks again for your service.

 

[KYVolFan]

Now we have to hear this for the next week that all of these people were right...there were WMD's in Iraq. I'd love to hit up all of the search engines for the quotes where they all repeated the lines of huge amounts of WMD's and mushroom clouds, etc. Let them all come out and say these are proof they were right. These shells do not excuse the shoddiness of how this whole episode was run. From the get-go, we were told numerous things that proved to be inaccurate. Even after Saddam was toppled, the US botched the insurgency and even now the reconstruction. Santorum can dance in the streets all he wants but thousands of Iraqis and 2500 Americans dying for this is inexcusable.

Let me guess, you are another syndicated and unbiased columnist for the "Tennessean", "Pravda", the "Daily Worker" and the "New York Times" while also serving as a speech-writer for Hilarious Clinton and John "Hines Catsup" Kerry.

You should consider a job with ABC as Anchorman.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Where's your reference on this Spin? What was it that Saddam used when he killed 5,000 Kurds in one village (all contained in three artillery shells). All of America's chemical weapons are at least 40 to 50 years old. We are now in the process of spending billions to degrade these lethal weapons, most of which are just as potent as the day they were manufactured.

Before making such an absurb statement, without substantiating it, remember there are a few on this board with more than a GED degree. :bad:

Check the news Doc. It's there. Pentagon and CIA are all saying these are degraded beyond any major use. Check the boys who are in the know who are quoting the same thing I've said. These shells of over 15 years are of no strategic value. As I said, you could get some sick people out of this if you had the tech to modify. There is a difference in shells that are recently made and those being buried and degraded. So comparing these to anything that killed the Kurds is absurd.

So before automatically calling my statement absurd, check the news stories out there that confirm.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Let me guess, you are another syndicated and unbiased columnist for the "Tennessean", "Pravda", the "Daily Worker" and the "New York Times" while also serving as a speech-writer for Hilarious Clinton and John "Hines Catsup" Kerry.

You should consider a job with ABC as Anchorman.

Good stereotyping. Good to see how quick people assume. I had a teacher who always had a catchy saying about people who assume. So just because I don't agree with you, that makes me a Communist or a liberal? Good to see you have the epitome of what conservatism is wrapped up. I could be cute and say that would make you a ghost writer for Mein Kampf and be just as absurd.....good to see how if you don't march in step with some people they get creative and name call with liberal references.

 

[therealUT]

Most of the WMD findings were reported when they were found by the BBC (in 2003 and 2004,) yet DoD and the U.S. Government never made any official announcements concerning. Therefore, every (including FoxNews for those of you who believe it is overtly right) American media outlet chose to ignore the vast reporting by the BBC.

Also, is this enough to justify invading Iraq? I could care less when these weapons were manufactured, the fact is that Saddam had access to them is all that matters. Also, the fact that their ability to operate effectively has been called in to question is a moot point. Mustard gas is mustard gas and the sarin agent is the sarin agent. You can farm that gas and the agent out of the warhead and put it to use in other ways.

 

[therealUT]

Check the news Doc. It's there. Pentagon and CIA are all saying these are degraded beyond any major use. Check the boys who are in the know who are quoting the same thing I've said. These shells of over 15 years are of no strategic value. As I said, you could get some sick people out of this if you had the tech to modify. There is a difference in shells that are recently made and those being buried and degraded. So comparing these to anything that killed the Kurds is absurd.

So before automatically calling my statement absurd, check the news stories out there that confirm.

A roadside bomb exploded on May 17, 2004 that was found to contain the nerve agent sarin. Since the chemical weapon shell was used as a bomb, and not fired from the barrel of an artillery piece, the internal rotor did not spin and the deadly agent was not widely dispersed. However, all the soldiers in the convoy required hospitilization.

Sarin gas and mustard gas do not degrade quickly, especially when enclosed in an airtight warhead. The only reason the warheads are being stated as having no strategic value is because the Iraqi's no longer have the missile and artillery systems to employ them correctly. That does not mean that they no longer pose a threat to U.S. Troops, Iraqi civilians, or, in the hands of any viable terrorist organization, the U.S.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Sarin gas and mustard gas do not degrade quickly, especially when enclosed in an airtight warhead. The only reason the warheads are being stated as having no strategic value is because the Iraqi's no longer have the missile and artillery systems to employ them correctly. That does not mean that they no longer pose a threat to U.S. Troops, Iraqi civilians, or, in the hands of any viable terrorist organization, the U.S.

Do not degrade quickly? Try over 15 years. And are you claiming chemical warfare specialists and the Pentagon liars now? They are being quoted as saying the agents were severely degraded and did not serve a strategic threat. These warheads were collected over a long period of time and were very difficult to discover considering many were buried. The agents were degraded and potentency was severely degraded.

As to the story you quoted, didn't it come out some short time later that Sarin was NOT in that bomb?

Again, if you read my post I even said that they could cause an irritant and hospitalize people but this was nowhere near the ability they were designed for. If you want to go with the argument that WMD's were found, many more than this were. Many were actually tagged and identified by the UN and lined up for destruction when Bush called the teams home. So instead of having them destroyed, he pulled the teams out to leave them to whoever could get to them.

People need to check all of the information out there and the info from the experts before believing what they've been fed all these years.

 

[therealUT]

Do not degrade quickly? Try over 15 years. And are you claiming chemical warfare specialists and the Pentagon liars now? They are being quoted as saying the agents were severely degraded and did not serve a strategic threat. These warheads were collected over a long period of time and were very difficult to discover considering many were buried. The agents were degraded and potentency was severely degraded.

As to the story you quoted, didn't it come out some short time later that Sarin was NOT in that bomb?

Again, if you read my post I even said that they could cause an irritant and hospitalize people but this was nowhere near the ability they were designed for. If you want to go with the argument that WMD's were found, many more than this were. Many were actually tagged and identified by the UN and lined up for destruction when Bush called the teams home. So instead of having them destroyed, he pulled the teams out to leave them to whoever could get to them.

People need to check all of the information out there and the info from the experts before believing what they've been fed all these years.

Fed? From that oh so conservative media outlet, the BBC. Right on. Also, it was sarin in the bomb, not enough was released to do more than hospitalize a whole convoy.

Also, being a strategic threat and a tactical threat are two completely different things. We in the military understand the difference between strategic level, operational level, and tactical level. Strategies effectively win wars, or since wars are an extension of diplomacy, resolve the diplomatic issue. The destruction of the WTC was at most an operational victory for Al Qaeda, and most likely only tactical level.

Therefore, because these WMD (which is what they are) are not a strategic threat, in no way implies that they were not a threat to the troops on the ground and the civillians in the vicinity.

 

[KYVolFan]

Good stereotyping. Good to see how quick people assume. I had a teacher who always had a catchy saying about people who assume. So just because I don't agree with you, that makes me a Communist or a liberal? Good to see you have the epitome of what conservatism is wrapped up. I could be cute and say that would make you a ghost writer for Mein Kampf and be just as absurd.....good to see how if you don't march in step with some people they get creative and name call with liberal references.

You are too gracious sir.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Fed? From that oh so conservative media outlet, the BBC. Right on. Also, it was sarin in the bomb, not enough was released to do more than hospitalize a whole convoy.

Also, being a strategic threat and a tactical threat are two completely different things. We in the military understand the difference between strategic level, operational level, and tactical level. Strategies effectively win wars, or since wars are an extension of diplomacy, resolve the diplomatic issue. The destruction of the WTC was at most an operational victory for Al Qaeda, and most likely only tactical level.

Therefore, because these WMD (which is what they are) are not a strategic threat, in no way implies that they were not a threat to the troops on the ground and the civillians in the vicinity.

Convenient how you pulled away from arguing the degrading issue.

And if you read all of the stories out there, only two soldiers (ones actually trying to diffuse the device) were treated for exposure and no one else suffered any symptoms. Even those close to the actual detonation received NO levels of exposure to cause any symptoms. So as to them taking out a convoy, I'd beg to differ. It didn't even take out the two in front of the device. The only reason they were treated was due to precautions. This shell, again, was over 15 years old. Seeing an actual example of this is the field not doing any harm should be pretty conclusive as to the effects of these other 500 degraded munitions.

Again, where did we get those satellite photos of entire warehouses, box cars, tractor trailers, thousands of gallons of chemicals, etc. Colin Powell went to the UN with? We had photos and info on all of these drones to deliver these items. It's hard to believe that these locations and items, MANY of them, could just slip out under our noses. If that happened then our intel across the board is a complete joke.

I still don't see where this justifies going into Iraq and taking out Saddam. While the RealUT claims we're doing charity work with the oppressed people (give Angelina Jolie a gun then), Osama and Al Qaeda, remember the masterminds behind the murder of 3000 Americans, is roaming free and planning more attacks.

How is that possible? It's like a serial killer here in America. We'd rather go after a drug dealer and put resources into that rather than the serial killer picking off people at his leisure. Good logic here.