Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

I've been watching UT basketball for 30 years. I will take what we have now. I like the type of basketball we have and I like the type of players CRB gets. Life is full of ups and downs. Basketball is no different. They players work hard and play team basketball. I think way more people have this point of view. Go find somewhere else to complain.
 
People are still stuck in the 2000’s. We aren’t some pushover anymore in basketball. It’s perfectly fine to have more expectations for Barnes.. the last 3 coaches all went to at least a S16. Barnes has to get over the hump, don’t want to retire here with the same tournament success as cuonzo

Last 3 went to at least a S16? That is, only ONE went past the S16. Barnes has gone just as far. He’s done just as well as every other coach at UT except one. He won something Pearl never won and is 10-7 against UK. Comparing him to Cuonzo is dumb, dumb, DUMB! We have some dumb fans.
 
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Nailed it, prior to winning it the nega Barnes were using SECT as evidence he couldn’t win a modern day tournament or using it against him for lack of postseason success, now he wins one and all of a sudden it doesn’t matter and it’s all about NCAAT lol. It will be the same song and dance if he makes it past the first weekend like folks are saying they want to see, it will then be gotta make E8. And same thing if/when he makes E8, it will be so what big deal, Bruce did it, should’ve made the Final Four.

There is no doubt the goal posts have moved.
 
There are plenty on here that can't see this program ever getting any better, so they will tell you that yes we should always be satisfied even if it stagnates. "Anybody that has a criticism obviously wasn't around for Wade Houston" is their battle cry.

I do think the next step in the program needs to be getting to the 2nd weekend in March with some sort of regularity.
That's a fair goal and criticism. Saying that we need to move on from Barnes, the program is heading in the wrong direction, and already predicting gloom and doom for next season aren't fair/timely criticisms.
 
You don't know that. Better recruiting usually equates to better seasons especially if the analytics show it. At sometime it should result in longer runs in the tournament. The knock on Barnes by many at Texas was his Less with More reputation. surely fans here want to see him return to his first ten season at Texas form. Only the sheep and idiots would deny they want that.
How does the majority of your comment address the part of BTO's comment that you bolded?

How is it untrue that winning the SECT no longer matters to people who want to criticize Barnes? There is plenty of evidence of people minimizing its importance and plenty of historical evidence of people using that very tournament as a benchmark of failure for him. It sure seemed important at the time when it was gasoline for the Barnes sucks in March fire. Pretending neither conversation has ever been had is disingenuous.
 
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I've been watching UT basketball for 30 years. I will take what we have now. I like the type of basketball we have and I like the type of players CRB gets. Life is full of ups and downs. Basketball is no different. They players work hard and play team basketball. I think way more people have this point of view. Go find somewhere else to complain.
That’s a loser attitude.. I’m sorry but I didn’t watch ut basketball for 30 years I’ve been watching since 06. Since then tennessees mens basketball has been really good, an elite 8 appearance a few sweet 16s and a sec championship, and a pretty much a guarantee run for the tournament.
Idk how they did back in your time but the Tennessee mens basketball team I’ve seen is improving and I would like to see us get to the next level, but your kind of thinking just settling is not what the program needs. We need to keep making strides to get better and with Rick Barnes we know what we’ll get, yea a solid regular season, a pretty good team here and there, but they will eventually underperform when it matters most.. sorry but I just don’t wanna settle with I’m fine with have an okay year.
 
That’s a loser attitude.. I’m sorry but I didn’t watch ut basketball for 30 years I’ve been watching since 06. Since then tennessees mens basketball has been really good, an elite 8 appearance a few sweet 16s and a sec championship, and a pretty much a guarantee run for the tournament.
Idk how they did back in your time but the Tennessee mens basketball team I’ve seen is improving and I would like to see us get to the next level, but your kind of thinking just settling is not what the program needs. We need to keep making strides to get better and with Rick Barnes we know what we’ll get, yea a solid regular season, a pretty good team here and there, but they will eventually underperform when it matters most.. sorry but I just don’t wanna settle with I’m fine with have an okay year.
Been following this thread for the pure enjoyment of the hot takes and opposing views. The occasional well thought out responses and debates, although few and far between, are fun.
But I have to say, your first sentence there is exactly why you get crap here. It’s not your semi-hot takes, your lack of experience of bad times as a UT sports fan or anything like that. It’s simply that you’re an immature poster who very poorly lives up to their screen name. Such a shame to be honest. It’s not even like you’re attempting to troll. At this point, I truly believe you believe a lot of what you say.
I’ll end the “get off my lawn” rant here.
 
That doesn't really address the question.
I didn’t complain about the lack of SECT success in the last 43 years because it wasn’t a big deal to me. It always felt like a forgone conclusion we’d lose given our lack of SECT success. The SECT is meaningless
 
I didn’t complain about the lack of SECT success in the last 43 years because it wasn’t a big deal to me. It always felt like a forgone conclusion we’d lose given our lack of SECT success. The SECT is meaningless
So doing something that was considered meaningless to you across 9 head coaches and 43 years because you had no faith in our ability to accomplish it...actually accomplishing that feat carries no weight with you?

Wow...tough crowd.
 
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Been following this thread for the pure enjoyment of the hot takes and opposing views. The occasional well thought out responses and debates, although few and far between, are fun.
But I have to say, your first sentence there is exactly why you get crap here. It’s not your semi-hot takes, your lack of experience of bad times as a UT sports fan or anything like that. It’s simply that you’re an immature poster who very poorly lives up to their screen name. Such a shame to be honest. It’s not even like you’re attempting to troll. At this point, I truly believe you believe a lot of what you say.
I’ll end the “get off my lawn” rant here.
I am not going to sweat him. He will never make it in life if he defines success as winning it all or bust. Ricky Bobby says hello.

Seriously, Peyton Manning only won two Super Bowls and didn't win a national championship. Is he a loser? Does he have a loser mentality?

Getting yourself in position to compete at a high level and achieving some, maybe not all of your goals, year after year is really what it takes and really what success looks like. This goes for life and any tournament that is single or even double elimination.
 
That's a fair goal and criticism. Saying that we need to move on from Barnes, the program is heading in the wrong direction, and already predicting gloom and doom for next season aren't fair/timely criticisms.

Well if you agree that the next step/goal for the program is making it to the 2nd weekend in March with some regularity; I think the question of “is Barnes the right coach to take you to that next step” is a legit question given his track record in March.

I don’t think Barnes should be fired, nor do I think the program is trending down or anything like that. I actually felt like this was his best coaching year since he got here. However, if you are looking to take the program deeper in March, it’s hard for me to believe Rick Barnes is the guy for that.
 
Well if you agree that the next step/goal for the program is making it to the 2nd weekend in March with some regularity; I think the question of “is Barnes the right coach to take you to that next step” is a legit question given his track record in March.

I don’t think Barnes should be fired, nor do I think the program is trending down or anything like that. I actually felt like this was his best coaching year since he got here. However, if you are looking to take the program deeper in March, it’s hard for me to believe Rick Barnes is the guy for that.
Wonder how the KY fans felt about Cal's coaching after getting dumped by No. 15 St. Peters?
 
Well if you agree that the next step/goal for the program is making it to the 2nd weekend in March with some regularity; I think the question of “is Barnes the right coach to take you to that next step” is a legit question given his track record in March.

I don’t think Barnes should be fired, nor do I think the program is trending down or anything like that. I actually felt like this was his best coaching year since he got here. However, if you are looking to take the program deeper in March, it’s hard for me to believe Rick Barnes is the guy for that.
I guess then it becomes a question of how rigidly you adhere to that goal/expectation, then.

You can't really have an explicit expectation of reaching the second weekend, and also hold sumultaneous beliefs that A.) Barnes probably isn't the right coach to attain that goal, and B.) Barnes shouldn't be fired. Those two ideas are mutually inclusive.

So, you're either more flexible regarding that goal of regularly reaching the second weekend, or you believe Barnes needs to go in favor of someone who will accomplish that goal. And then the question becomes, who replaces him that is more likely to put Tennessee in that position? I wonder how exhaustive the list is of current coaches who have reached the second weekend in 3 of the last 4 NCAATs.
 
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Well if you agree that the next step/goal for the program is making it to the 2nd weekend in March with some regularity; I think the question of “is Barnes the right coach to take you to that next step” is a legit question given his track record in March.

I don’t think Barnes should be fired, nor do I think the program is trending down or anything like that. I actually felt like this was his best coaching year since he got here. However, if you are looking to take the program deeper in March, it’s hard for me to believe Rick Barnes is the guy for that.

I think that the next step is to continue making the NCAAT field every year. Bruce went to 6 straight NCAATs. Devoe went to 5 straight. Green went to 4 straight. Barnes has been to 4 straight (with 2020 cancelled). Bruce was the ONLY TN coach to EVER go to back-to-back Sweet 16s. It takes a great deal of luck to win those back-to-back, first week games. Especially a good draw. Bruce had Long Beach State and American in the opening round games and then won tight matches with Virginia and Butler. It is a crap shoot. Make it every year and there will be runs. TN has had some really bad luck in the most recent NCAATs. Loyola’s lucky bounce(s). Purdue’s off guard having a career game making every 3-pointer he throws up go in. Purdue also benefited from the lucky whistle that directly lead to overtime. Michigan having a non-three point shooting big knock several down in the opening minutes (Dickinson had made 18 3-pointers in 58 games). Kyle Alexander missing the Loyola game with a hip injury. Fulk missing 2021 after being assaulted in the SECT by the Florida goon. Being matched up with 2 teams that were far better than their seeds (Oregon State/Michigan). The key is to continue getting into the tournament.
 
How does the majority of your comment address the part of BTO's comment that you bolded?

How is it untrue that winning the SECT no longer matters to people who want to criticize Barnes? There is plenty of evidence of people minimizing its importance and plenty of historical evidence of people using that very tournament as a benchmark of failure for him. It sure seemed important at the time when it was gasoline for the Barnes sucks in March fire. Pretending neither conversation has ever been had is disingenuous.
Actually I think I read it wrong. thought he was saying if we started making the second weekend on a consistent basis people would still be calling for his head. Why I responded 'u don't know that'. We know they're discounting the SECT, but at the same time before we won one it wasn't important to the SHEEP.

PS To be clear, my stance has always been in post season, if we have a choice of going 6-0 or 9-0 I'd choose the easiest route.
 
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I guess then it becomes a question of how rigidly you adhere to that goal/expectation, then.

You can't really have an explicit expectation of reaching the second weekend, and also hold sumultaneous beliefs that A.) Barnes probably isn't the right coach to attain that goal, and B.) Barnes shouldn't be fired. Those two ideas are mutually inclusive.

So, you're either more flexible regarding that goal of regularly reaching the second weekend, or you believe Barnes needs to go in favor of someone who will accomplish that goal. And then the question becomes, who replaces him that is more likely to put Tennessee in that position? I wonder how exhaustive the list is of current coaches who have reached the second weekend in 3 of the last 4 NCAATs.

I define goals and expectations differently. Expectation for me is what should happen (barring something unforeseen) vs a goal (reasonable goal that is) where I see that is something we are trying to achieve that is beyond the expectation but attainable realistically. I totally understand that the ultimate goal is to win a natty, but I don't find that as a realistic goal for our program currently. I do think making it to the second weekend in March is realistic for any top 20 team in the country and I think everyone would agree.

When I say that the goal for our program to take the next step is to make the sweet 16 on a more regular basis that is me setting the expectation for the program as making the NCAA tournament. Anything less than making the tournament is a failure in my eyes in our current state. I think that is a fair assessment right? If you want to take that further, I view us as a top 20 program, so we should win our first game in March way more often than we lose, but that is nitpicking.

If you are on board with the previous then the logical next step forward as a program is the second weekend. That isn't the expectation though, that is the goal. We haven't shown an ability to make it to the S16 with any type of regularity so I can't call Barnes a failure. However, you make the tourney every single year, especially as a 5 seed or higher, I would think that we would make it to the 2nd weekend more than 25% of the time (which is what Barnes has done the last 4 appearances).

So it really boils down to are you ok meeting expectations or do you want more? How long will you accept just meeting expectations vs wanting more? Right or wrong, fair or unfair, Barnes has a relatively underwhelming record when it comes to the NCAA tourney. It really just is what it is at this point and I've seen even his staunchest of supporters on here back away from trying to defend it. I think Barnes is great overall, but I am not sure he is the coach to take us up another notch. I think he has raised this program entirely, but the only stretch he had where he got his team into the S16 consistently was about 20 years ago. I just don't have much faith that Rick Barnes gets us to that goal.

I also don't think you can fire a guy when he is meeting expectations which Barnes has. At some point though the program has to take another step forward or you have to seriously look at making a change. I don't think we are there yet nor should we be, but if we are still in the same spot 3 or 4 years from now, I do think it's time to start talking to Rick about retirement. Which also means I'm fully aware we may take a step back, but sometimes you have to take a step back to take two forward.
 
Been following this thread for the pure enjoyment of the hot takes and opposing views. The occasional well thought out responses and debates, although few and far between, are fun.
But I have to say, your first sentence there is exactly why you get crap here. It’s not your semi-hot takes, your lack of experience of bad times as a UT sports fan or anything like that. It’s simply that you’re an immature poster who very poorly lives up to their screen name. Such a shame to be honest. It’s not even like you’re attempting to troll. At this point, I truly believe you believe a lot of what you say.
I’ll end the “get off my lawn” rant here.
Well thought out response? So you agree with those who say we shouldn't expect Barnes to get past week one in the tournament because it was rarely accomplished in our basketball history.
I say anyone who thinks like that is the worst of this teams' TROLLS.

And before the ijuts respond I'm not for replacing Barnes, I'm for him to get back to what he was doing 1998 to 2008.
 
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Posters that understand reality don’t EXPECT Sweet 16s yet. TN is still a developing, upward trending program. Mears/Devoe built TN into a top 20-25 program. Then it slide to around the low 30s or worse historically. Basically from being asleep at the wheel as the NCAAT rose in popularity. The program has steadily been trending upward even when considering Pearl nearly dismantled it after elevating it and by the missteps that followed with Cuonzo and Tyndall. TN is well positioned right now and is almost solidly in the top 20-25 of all programs’ RECENT histories. Making the Sweet 16 regularly is a very difficult step as living in the top 10-15 means pushing some very elite programs out of that territory.
 
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Posters that understand reality don’t EXPECT Sweet 16s yet. TN is still a developing, upward trending program. Mears/Devoe built TN into a top 20-25 program. Then it slide to around the low 30s or worse historically. Basically from being asleep at the shell as the NCAAT rose in popularity. The program has steadily been trending upward even when considering Pearl nearly dismantled it after elevating it and the by missteps with Cuonzo and Tyndall. TN is well positioned right now and is almost solidly in the top 20-25 of all programs RECENT history. Making the Sweet 16 regularly is a very difficult step as living in the top 10-15 means pushing some very elite programs out of that territory.
How long has our HoF coach been coaching? How many yrs at TN?
 
How long has our HoF coach been coaching? How many yrs at TN?

What’s your point? Based on your recent posts you’re simply a drive-by Barnes Basher.

The program is trending up by multiple measures. TN has just had it’s highest ever final AP ranking. The SEC Tournament hadn't been won in 43 years. TN also has a recent regular season SEC championship. The 4 weeks with the #1 mid-season ranking is unprecedented. 3 years ago the 31 wins matched the highest total EVER. The 27 wins this year is the 4th most ever. The 26 wins in 2017-18 is tied for the 5th most ever. 3 of the most win totals EVER recorded in a season have happened in the last 5 years. 5-star players are signing and players are being drafted into the NBA in numbers never before achieved.

Losing after another win or 2 in the NCAAT would be great, but it isn’t everything. Check out USCe. Georgia lost in the Final Four one time and has only made it to the Sweet 16 one other time in their history. Building a consistent winner is most important and when that happens more NCAAT wins will follow.
 
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What’s your point? Based on your recent posts you’re simply a drive-by Barnes Basher.

The program is trending up by multiple measures. TN has just had it’s highest ever final AP ranking. The SEC Tournament hadn't been won in 43 years. TN also has a recent regular season SEC championship. The 4 weeks with the #1 mid-season ranking is unprecedented. 3 years ago the 31 wins matched the highest total EVER. The 27 wins this year is the 4th most ever. The 26 wins in 2017-18 is tied for the 5th most ever. 3 of the most win totals EVER recorded in a season have happened in the last 5 years. 5-star players are signing and players are being drafted into the NBA in numbers never before achieved.

Losing after another win or 2 in the NCAAT would be great, but it isn’t everything. Check out USCe. Georgia lost in the Final Four one time and has only made it to the Sweet 16 one other time in their history. Building a consistent winner is most important and when that happens more NCAAT wins will follow.
I don’t live on this board and im not a coach worshipper. Barnes is good coach and deserves praise for the successes. But he isn’t exempt from criticism as well. Many fans would expect a HoF, seasoned coach to get into the 2nd weekend by his 8th season here. The program and culture is established. Mears was good coach and he built nice program and also had to deal with a smaller NCAA tournament
My point was Barnes (HoF) in yr 8 (here) should expect to get into 2nd wkend of tourney. Fans have been reminded how many career wins Barnes has with HoF status. Expectations go with it imo
 
I don’t live on this board and im not a coach worshipper. Barnes is good coach and deserves praise for the successes. But he isn’t exempt from criticism as well. Many fans would expect a HoF, seasoned coach to get into the 2nd weekend by his 8th season here. The program and culture is established. Mears was good coach and he built nice program and also had to deal with a smaller NCAA tournament
My point was Barnes (HoF) in yr 8 (here) should expect to get into 2nd wkend of tourney. Fans have been reminded how many career wins Barnes has with HoF status. Expectations go with it imo

It’s really not coach worshipping or sunshine pumping to recite the unprecedented accomplishments that have been happening recently with the TN basketball program. There’s more to being a highly successful program than to simply make a deep run and then losing further into in a single elimination, made for TV ratings, season ending tournament. TN also has a win over this year’s “national champion”.

Majors nailed it. Legions of the Miserable. They are always going to be miserable. Some are just trolls.
 
It’s really not coach worshipping or sunshine pumping to recite the unprecedented accomplishments that have been happening recently with the TN basketball program. There’s more to being a highly successful program than to simply make a deep run and then losing further into in a single elimination, made for TV ratings, season ending tournament. TN also has a win over this year’s “national champion”.

Majors nailed it. Legions of the Miserable. They are always going to be miserable. Some are just trolls.
You don’t expect a HoF coach to make it past first weekend even after 8 yrs at one school.....TN did it few times before Barnes.
I do expect S16 now.......and guess what......that’s ok
 

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