Roe vs Wade Overturned

#3,626
#3,626
Allvols1996 said:
You can’t have individual rights without individuals. So, yes, you can be libertarian and pro-life.
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You can be pro-life but not really pro govt regulation

Allvols1996 said:
Yes. I’m not the one making a positive claim. You are saying these rights exist, so please show me where they exist.
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Are you unfamiliar with natural rights? They can exist without govt. Actually they should exist outside govt and any good govt should recognize them
 
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#3,627
#3,627
Allvols1996 said:
Yes. I’m not the one making a positive claim. You are saying these rights exist, so please show me where they exist.
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I can't show you where. But you can't show me any evidence of a government granting basic human rights either.
 
#3,631
#3,631
utvolpj said:
You can be pro-life but not really pro govt regulation


Are you unfamiliar with natural rights? They can exist without govt. Actually they should exist outside govt and any good govt should recognize them
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Sure you can. Libertarians aren’t anarchist. There is a growing trend in the movement that is borderline anarchy, but that isn’t the party at its core.
 
#3,633
#3,633
utvolpj said:
Are you unfamiliar with natural rights? They can exist without govt. Actually they should exist outside govt and any good govt should recognize them
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Familiar with them? yes, as a concept. Do I think they hold up? Only in the sense if we are speaking about some universal human worth like what Aquinas described. If you get into Lockeian ideas it gets a little tricky to support. That’s where Jefferson borrowed much of his work for the DOI.
 
#3,634
#3,634
utvolpj said:
So they're now in favor of govt laws limiting individual freedoms? Interesting shift
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Only if you look at through that lens. Life is the basic, fundamental, property of individualism. Impossible to separate the two. How can you have true liberty if you are in danger of having your future wiped out before you exit the protective confines of your Mother?? Kind of pulls the rug out on that, no?
 
#3,638
#3,638
bnhunt said:
It's the woman's right to choose what she does with her body. It's not your choice or mine.
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Yet women can't sell body parts for money, neither can men. Anyways, define a woman. The baby sure didn't have a choice to get their brains sucked out. What did that baby do?
 
#3,640
#3,640
utvolpj said:
So they're now in favor of govt laws limiting individual freedoms? Interesting shift
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Do you see laws against murder as the same shift? The premise that being against killing a life is some how contradictory to anti gov is asinine.

If you view the baby as an individual, which scientifically it is, then protecting his or her life is the first moral test. I'm not libertarian but I don't see the contradiction.
 
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#3,643
#3,643
utvols88 said:
Do you see laws against murder as the same shift? The premise that being against killing a life is some how contradictory to anti gov is asinine.

If you view the baby as an individual, which scientifically it is, then protecting his or her life is the first moral test. I'm not libertarian but I don't see the contradiction.
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The concept of individuality is a value-based judgment. Science does not deal in value-based judgements.
 
#3,644
#3,644
PKT_VOL said:
The concept of individuality is a value-based judgment. Science does not deal in value-based judgements.
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Being an individual is attained by having your own DNA making you your own being. The turtle inside the egg is an individual. When it hatches, it is still an individual. There's nothing value based about it.
 
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#3,646
#3,646
utvols88 said:
Being an individual is attained by having your own DNA making you your own being. The turtle inside the egg is an individual. When it hatches, it is still an individual. There's nothing value based about it.
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Regardless of however you feel about what constitutes "individuality", it is your own philosophical value judgment. It is not a scientific one as science does not and cannot make those judgements.
 
#3,647
#3,647
PKT_VOL said:
Regardless of however you feel about what constitutes "individuality", it is your own philosophical value judgment. It is not a scientific one as science does not and cannot make those judgements.
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Science can absolutely state those are two separate life forms. Which seems to be the going definition of individual. A separate human life
 
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#3,648
#3,648
Vol8188 said:
Science can absolutely state those are two separate life forms. Which seems to be the going definition of individual. A separate human life
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Science cannot do that. What constitutes "two separate life forms" is a philosophical value judgement.

Science can only design falsifiable experiments to test whether a specific criteria is present within a previously delineated philosophical framework.
 
#3,650
#3,650
PKT_VOL said:
Science cannot do that. What constitutes "two separate life forms" is a philosophical value judgement.

Science can only design falsifiable experiments to test whether a specific criteria is present within a previously delineated philosophical framework.
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It seems scientist make the distinction between life and none life, and distinguish one life form from another constantly. So I’m not sure I’m following
 
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