Romney, man of the people

#51
#51
Rasputin_Vol said:
At this point, the people getting welfare checks on the bottom are no more or less dangerous than the people on top that expect govt handouts/bailouts and favorable legislation. The man in the middles is getting squeezed to death on both ends. The middle class is paying for the poor and lazy's welfare checks and paying higher tax rates than a guy like Romney to pay off the interest on the debt. "Faith in the US Govt's ability to pay" means "Faith in the. US taxpayer to continue paying the credit card debt".
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I'll agree to a point, but the 15% rate (11% actual) that I pay on 53k/year amounts to a helluva lot less than what Romney is paying on capital gains.

The percentage isn't what really matters, except to those who want to engage in class warfare. Romney probably paid more this past year than I've ever earned before taxes. I don't begrudge him the money he makes and I certainly don't care if he uses legal ways to keep more of what he earns.
 
#52
#52
MG1968 said:
I'll agree to a point, but the 15% rate (11% actual) that I pay on 53k/year amounts to a helluva lot less than what Romney is paying on capital gains.

The percentage isn't what really matters, except to those who want to engage in class warfare. Romney probably paid more this past year than I've ever earned before taxes. I don't begrudge him the money he makes and I certainly don't care if he uses legal ways to keep more of what he earns.
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I understand that Romney still paid way more than I made last year. My only issue is the rate that he pays. I want that same 15% rate. I paid just over 20% this year...
 
#53
#53
MG1968 said:
I'll agree to a point, but the 15% rate (11% actual) that I pay on 53k/year amounts to a helluva lot less than what Romney is paying on capital gains.

The percentage isn't what really matters, except to those who want to engage in class warfare. Romney probably paid more this past year than I've ever earned before taxes. I don't begrudge him the money he makes and I certainly don't care if he uses legal ways to keep more of what he earns.
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Of course the percentage matters! Why should he pay a smaller chunk just because he has a bigger pile? Tithes are equal, why shouldn't tribute?
 
#54
#54
Rasputin_Vol said:
I understand that Romney still paid way more than I made last year. My only issue is the rate that he pays. I want that same 15% rate. I paid just over 20% this year...
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when you can live off of revenue derived from capital gains, you'll get that 15% rate
 
#55
#55
I can't believe this distortion of earned income vs capital gains continues to come up. It's one of the most intellectually dishonest arguments I've ever seen.
 
#56
#56
if your are on some type of public assistance you should be stripped of your right to vote until you get off public assistance. That is one of the worst soundbites I've seen of someone close to get a Presidential Nomination. I really thought he was suppose to be smarter then that.
 
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#57
#57
GAVol said:
I can't believe this distortion of earned income vs capital gains continues to come up. It's one of the most intellectually dishonest arguments I've ever seen.
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There is no distortion or misunderstanding of what it is. I don't have any hate for Romney regarding how much he pays. My argument is that I should be able to pay the same rate. Actually, what would be even better is if we went with RP's plan of eliminating the income tax all together. Then I would be quite happy.
 
#58
#58
MG1968 said:
Paul supporters are nothing if not consistent in their disdain for anybody who hasn't jumped on their bandwagon.
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That's right. The only way you can possibly think that a choice between Santorum and Romney sucks is to be a Paulbot. Obviously, only someone brainwashed by RP could think that they are horrible choices. Only someone brainwashed by RP could think that there hasn't been a good GOP nominee since I have been old enough to vote. Only a Paultard could hope that we could get something better someday. Only one of RP's minions could think that voting for the same old crap will keep giving us the same old crap.

I wish I had thought of some of those things on my own. Oh, wait. I did. Twenty years ago before I ever heard of Ron Paul.

Have you ever considered that people don't think these things because the great and mighty RP tells them to? Maybe, they are drawn to his message because he is saying what they already think?

I do not plan on voting for RP, but that does not change the fact that he is right about a lot of things. I have never voted for a GOP for president. I usually vote Libertarian or Independent.

Have you ever considered addressing the points that people bring up instead of just making a blanket, and frankly offensive, condemnation of RP supporters?
 
#59
#59
Romney has no cause, no purpose, to being president. I can't think of a thing he has said to make me remark, "that's a pretty good idea." He's just .... nothing.
 
#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
Romney has no cause, no purpose, to being president. I can't think of a thing he has said to make me remark, "that's a pretty good idea." He's just .... nothing.
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You just described almost every politician at a Federal level.
 
#61
#61
lawgator1 said:
Romney has no cause, no purpose, to being president. I can't think of a thing he has said to make me remark, "that's a pretty good idea." He's just .... nothing.
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I agree with this. Unfortunately, the current President fits this description too. Sadness all around.
 
#62
#62
RespectTradition said:
That's right. The only way you can possibly think that a choice between Santorum and Romney sucks is to be a Paulbot. Obviously, only someone brainwashed by RP could think that they are horrible choices. Only someone brainwashed by RP could think that there hasn't been a good GOP nominee since I have been old enough to vote. Only a Paultard could hope that we could get something better someday. Only one of RP's minions could think that voting for the same old crap will keep giving us the same old crap.

I wish I had thought of some of those things on my own. Oh, wait. I did. Twenty years ago before I ever heard of Ron Paul.

Have you ever considered that people don't think these things because the great and mighty RP tells them to? Maybe, they are drawn to his message because he is saying what they already think?

I do not plan on voting for RP, but that does not change the fact that he is right about a lot of things. I have never voted for a GOP for president. I usually vote Libertarian or Independent.

Have you ever considered addressing the points that people bring up instead of just making a blanket, and frankly offensive, condemnation of RP supporters?
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I think the point is that for whatever reason, nobody plays the role of the smartest guy in the room quite like some RP supporters. Their zeal is both admirable and annoying at the same time.
 
#63
#63
GAVol said:
I think the point is that for whatever reason, nobody plays the role of the smartest guy in the room quite like some RP supporters. Their zeal is both admirable and annoying at the same time.
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There is nothing elitist about his philosophy or his supporters. You can't get more grassroots or more simple regarding the Constitutional platform than the Paul position. Paul supporters actually believe in their candidate. Romney/Santorum supporters believe in a strategy. Believing in a strategy is far more complex. With Paul, there is no need for political calculating.
 
#64
#64
GAVol said:
I can't believe this distortion of earned income vs capital gains continues to come up. It's one of the most intellectually dishonest arguments I've ever seen.
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IMO, all income should be counted as income. The tax system needs to be simplified and treat everyone equally.
I do not think it is fair that someone
fortunate enough to earn their money from investments pay a smaller rate than a small businessman or professional couple.
A small business making $145,000 in taxable income after all allowed deductions
is in the 28% bracket which is $40,600 in due taxes.
An investor making the exact same money will be in the 15% bracket and owe $21,750 in taxes.
Why should the investor pay $18,850 less in taxes than someone earning the same amount of money.
The tax rates need to be lowered, do away will all loopholes and treat all income the
same.
In the example above lower the tax bracket to 20%, both parties would pay $29,000 in taxes.
 
#65
#65
Gramps said:
IMO, all income should be counted as income. The tax system needs to be simplified and treat everyone equally.
I do not think it is fair that someone
fortunate enough to earn their money from investments pay a smaller rate than a small businessman or professional couple.
A small business making $145,000 in taxable income after all allowed deductions
is in the 28% bracket which is $40,600 in due taxes.
An investor making the exact same money will be in the 15% bracket and owe $21,750 in taxes.
Why should the investor pay $18,850 less in taxes than someone earning the same amount of money.
The tax rates need to be lowered, do away will all loopholes and treat all income the
same.
In the example above lower the tax bracket to 20%, both parties would pay $29,000 in taxes.
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I don't know. Maybe because THEY ALREADY PAID TAXES ON THE MONEY THAT IS BEING INVESTED.

I am so sick of the it is not fair attitude. Everyone that actually pays taxes should be bi*ching that they pay too much tax money to a wasteful and bloated government instead of bi*ching about his neighbor not paying the same rate on his investment income.

Congrats Obama. The only thing you have been successful on is expanding class warfare and turning every discussion on the size of government into an argument that the rich aren't paying enough.
 
#66
#66
On a related topic, thank god for William Roth. The government will never get to double dip on a large portion of my retirement income thanks to roth iras and roth 401ks.

I cannot stress enough that anyone who can should do everything in their power to max these out each year. It will be a life saver the rate government is growing.
 
#67
#67
Last rant but if everyone would take pride and focus on the things that they earn and achieve as opposed to being jealous of what other people earn and get handed to them, this country would not be in the shape it is in.

It is time to take all this entitlement money and focus on the youth of this country. Then, once they hit a certain age, they are essentially on their own and dependent on private charity. No more lifetime government dependents.
 
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#68
#68
vols4sure said:
I don't know. Maybe because THEY ALREADY PAID TAXES ON THE MONEY THAT IS BEING INVESTED.

I am so sick of the it is not fair attitude. Everyone that actually pays taxes should be bi*ching that they pay too much tax money to a wasteful and bloated government instead of bi*ching about his neighbor not paying the same rate on his investment
income.

Congrats Obama. The only thing you have been successful on is expanding class warfare and turning every discussion on the size of government into an argument that the rich aren't paying enough.
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You have been listening to way too much right wing talk show BS.

The truth is the US tax system is a mess. The tax rates are too high and is loaded with loopholes.

I have been a small businessman since 1977. I have to pay an accountant for advice and do whatever we can legally to lower our tax burden. This is totally uncalled for. The US Government could very easily simplify the tax system and Yes make it fair to all.

Your rant about capital gains profited have already been taxed. That is true, even though the money you use to buy your groceries or anything else, already been taxed, you pay taxes again when you purchase..
Income is Income, I don't care how you earn it, and it should all be taxed the same.
No our system is not fair. The investor should not be paying 10-20% less than a working couple earning the same amount. On the other end. A couple with 2 children earning $20,000 per year and has $2,000 in withholding deducted from their check for taxes should not be entitled to the earned income and receive a refund for $7,000.
We have a very screwed up tax system.
 
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#69
#69
Gramps said:
IMO, all income should be counted as income. The tax system needs to be simplified and treat everyone equally.
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Agree with you on that point heartily.

Somehow taxing money from an investment at a lower rate is suppose to encourage more investment, but what you end up with are the wealthiest men in the world like Warren Buffett paying a tax rate around 15%. Buffet's even said, if he wanted to take advantage of the tax code he could legally not pay any taxes.
 
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#70
#70
WA_Vol said:
Agree with you on that point heartily.

Somehow taxing money from an investment at a lower rate is suppose to encourage more investment, but what you end up with are the wealthiest men in the world like Warren Buffett paying a tax rate around 15%. Buffet's even said, if he wanted to take advantage of the tax code he could legally not pay any taxes.
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Do you realize how few of these people there is?
 
#71
#71
Gramps said:
You have been listening to way too much right wing talk show BS.

The truth is the US tax system is a mess. The tax rates are too high and is loaded with loopholes.

I have been a small businessman since 1977. I have to pay an accountant for advice and do whatever we can legally to lower our tax burden. This is totally uncalled for. The US Government could very easily simplify the tax system and Yes make it fair to all.

Your rant about capital gains profited have already been taxed. That is true, even though the money you use to buy your groceries or anything else, already been taxed, you pay taxes again when you purchase..
Income is Income, I don't care how you earn it, and it should all be taxed the same.
No our system is not fair. The investor should not be paying 10-20% less than a working couple earning the same amount. On the other end. A couple with 2 children earning $20,000 per year and has $2,000 in withholding deducted from their check for taxes should not be entitled to the earned income and receive a refund for $7,000.
We have a very screwed up tax system.
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Where did I say we didn't need tax reform? I just don't see long term capital gains as income that should be as taxed as ordinary income.

There is a federal sales tax? News to me. I would much rather pay lower federal taxes in exchange for higher state taxes. At least then we would have more control of how the money is spent and the people who are deciding how to spend it. Instead we have states that are welfare children of the federal government.
 
#74
#74
WA_Vol said:
Explain
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Long explanation short - it has already been taxed once, taxing it penalizes savers as opposed to incentivizing more people to not depend on the government for retirement, and more money being invested is good for the economy.

I would rather it not be taxed at all, but I am ok with the current rates.
 
#75
#75
A corporation is nothing but a collection of individuals. For legal purposes, there is a need for such entities. The money that a corporation uses is not its own. It is the money of investors, shareholders. In the same vein, the money that the corporation earns is not its own. It belongs to the same investors, shareholders. When the corporation is taxed, in reality, the people who have the rights to its earnings are the ones who are taxed. So, if you own stock in Acme and Acme pays a tax, then you are really paying that tax. When the earnings are payed out as dividends then you are getting your share of earnings that remain after those earnings have already been taxed. To then turn around and tax you again on those earnings is wrong.
 
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