Romney's 2011 tax return released

#26
#26
n_huffhines said:
I don't think you know what you are talking about. The church does tons of real charity. My father-in-law was a bishop and basically every "poor" member of his congregation was in the church's pocket. For instance "fast offerings" (collected once a month) go directly to those who can't afford to feed themselves. People take advantage of it. He said the church was paying phone bills for people. SMH

I went to BYU. I paid $1,800 in heavily subsidized tuition per semester. If I paid what it really cost then it would have been closer $30,000. This is the kind of thing that Romney's contributions would go towards.
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If I can't have overpaid government bureaucrats overseeing this kind of operation, then I don't trust it
 
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#27
#27
n_huffhines said:
I don't think you know what you are talking about. The church does tons of real charity. My father-in-law was a bishop and basically every "poor" member of his congregation was in the church's pocket. For instance "fast offerings" (collected once a month) go directly to those who can't afford to feed themselves. People take advantage of it. He said the church was paying phone bills for people. SMH

I went to BYU. I paid $1,800 in heavily subsidized tuition per semester. If I paid what it really cost then it would have been closer $30,000. This is the kind of thing that Romney's contributions would go towards.
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I actually do know what I am talking about and I am very familiar with how the church works, moreso then you probably think.

Tell me this, then what do the tithes go towards, not the fast offerings? (See bottom of my post for your answer). Furthermore, fast offerings are contributions on top of what members pay for tithe, and the tithe, among other things, make it so members can receive temple recommends and other endowments. Fast offerings are direct to charity, I don't have a problem with that. But let's be honest, the church collects the tithe, the member's fast offerings are paying other peoples phone bills. SMH.

I understand you either are a member of the church, or were. Most members discount much of what is in this post as negative propaganda, but this simply isn't the case. The evidence is there, and there is no ax to grind from business week or the NYT.

KentheOrange said:
And the Southern Baptist Convention and the Catholic Church aren't?

You need your perspective adjusted.
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Are the southern baptists and catholics this cavalier about their other business interests:

Income of Mormon Church Is Put at $4.7 Billion a Year - NYTimes.com

A Phoenix newspaper reported Sunday that the Mormon Church, which does not disclose its finances, collects at least $4.3 billion a year from its members and $400 million more from its many enterprises
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But the newspaper said it was able to conclude that the Mormon Church controlled at least 100 companies or businesses; had become one the nation's largest private landowners, with holdings in all 50 states, and appointed spiritual leaders who could double as business leaders to oversee real estate, communications, tourism, insurance and education operations.
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How the Mormons Make Money - Businessweek


Late last March the Mormon Church completed an ambitious project: a megamall. Built for roughly $2 billion, the City Creek Center stands directly across the street from the church’s iconic neo-Gothic temple in Salt Lake City. The mall includes a retractable glass roof, 5,000 underground parking spots, and nearly 100 stores and restaurants, ranging from Tiffany’s (TIF) to Forever 21. Walkways link the open-air emporium with the church’s perfectly manicured headquarters on Temple Square. Macy’s (M) is a stone’s throw from the offices of the church’s president, Thomas S. Monson, whom Mormons believe to be a living prophet.

On the morning of its grand opening, thousands of shoppers thronged downtown Salt Lake, eager to elbow their way into the stores. The national anthem played, and Henry B. Eyring, one of Monson’s top counselors, told the crowds, “Everything that we see around us is evidence of the long-standing commitment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Salt Lake City.” When it came time to cut the mall’s flouncy pink ribbon, Monson, flanked by Utah dignitaries, cheered, “One, two, three—let’s go shopping!”
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And the Catholic and Baptists are not demanding a 10% tithe in exchange for what they teach to be necessary endowments to achieve the highest form of paradise.
 
#28
#28
so you don't think the Mormon church should be classified as a non-profit, because it successfully manages it's money?
 
#30
#30
bamawriter said:
Actually, he had committed to releasing his 2011 return all along. He isn't backtracking.
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golfballs said:
Yeah, Romney said he would release his 2011 return before the first debate.
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He has been saying he was going to release 2011 when completed.

He and Ann both have stated that was all they were going to release. If you recall Ann said on Good Morning America something like " that is all you people are goin to get"

The flip, if there is one, would be having his accountants release a summary for each year since 1990
A summary is not the return but it is much more than he has been saying he would release. The left will call it a flip.

Personally, I think his tax return issue is a bunch of BS.
We all know Romney is rich, makes a ton of money from investments, gives millions to the mormon church. He , like everyone else is going to use as many deductions and loopholes as possible to lower his tax burden.
I do not support Romney but this is just a tactic for the left to find something to b***h about.
 
#31
#31
Gramps said:
He has been saying he was going to release 2011 when completed.

He and Ann both have stated that was all they were going to release. If you recall Ann said on Good Morning America something like " that is all you people are goin to get"

The flip, if there is one, would be having his accountants release a summary for each year since 1990
A summary is not the return but it is much more than he has been saying he would release. The left will call it a flip.

Personally, I think his tax return issue is a bunch of BS.
We all know Romney is rich, makes a ton of money from investments, gives millions to the mormon church. He , like everyone else is going to use as many deductions and loopholes as possible to lower his tax burden.
I do not support Romney but this is just a tactic for the left to find something to b***h about.
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The campaign also released a statement from PriceWaterhouseCoopers on the Romneys’ tax filings over 20 years, from 1990 – 2009:

In each year during the entire 20-year period, the Romneys owed both state and federal income taxes.

Over the entire 20-year period, the average annual effective federal tax rate was 20.20%.

Over the entire 20-year period, the lowest annual effective federal personal tax rate was 13.66%.

Over the entire 20-year period, the Romneys gave to charity an average of 13.45% of their adjusted gross income.

Over the entire 20-year period, the total federal and state taxes owed plus the total charitable donations deducted represented 38.49% of total AGI.

The Romney campaign also released this letter from former IRS Commissioner (and current Skadden partner) Fred Goldberg:

These returns reflect the complexity of our tax laws and the types of investment activity that I would anticipate for persons in their circumstances. There is no indication or suggestion of any tax-motivated or aggressive tax planning activities. In my judgment, they have fully satisfied their responsibilities as taxpayers. They have done so by relying on a highly reputable return preparer and other advisors, who have in turn relied primarily on information provided by third parties to them and to the IRS. The end result of that process has been returns that include a multitude of schedules, IRS forms and accompanying statements that provide appropriate transparency and the proper payment of taxes that Governor and Mrs. Romney owe under current law.
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TaxProf Blog: Mitt Romney Releases 2011 Tax Return

Letter from PricewaterhouseCoopers | Mitt Romney for President
 
#33
#33
Eat a dog poop sandwich Harry Reid.

Interesting to that he does not deduct all of his charitable giving even though he could - still won't be enough for RJD but only counting 1/2 is pretty generous.

Finally, looks like he's "redistributing" his own wealth to the tune of nearly 40% a year - that seems like a fair share.
 
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#34
#34
that's because he made sure to pay over 13% every year. Something he said he would do. Or something to that effect.
 
#35
#35
Fast offerings and other charitable giving he absolutely should deduct.

Afterlife insurance he pays to Mormon, Inc. shouldn't be counted. JMO.

:)
 
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#36
#36
rjd970 said:
If it is using it for profit, no?

Are you serious?
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Plenty of not-for-profits make profit or more accurately positive margin. There's a reason why the term not-for-profit is used as opposed to non-profit.

If they don't have owners and don't distribute the excess earnings out to said owners then they are not-for-profits.

This is true of tons of charitable organizations.
 
#38
#38
Yeah they'll have to go in a different direction with their bashing now, this deal is dead....
 
#40
#40
Cartervol said:
Yeah they'll have to go in a different direction with their bashing now, this deal is dead....
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Are you kidding? This will just ramp it up - only paid 14% - wants to give the rich a tax break that the middle class will have to pay for.

It will never end.
 
#42
#42
volinbham said:
Plenty of not-for-profits make profit or more accurately positive margin. There's a reason why the term not-for-profit is used as opposed to non-profit.

If they don't have owners and don't distribute the excess earnings out to said owners then they are not-for-profits.

This is true of tons of charitable organizations.
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Mormons make up only 1.4 percent of the U.S. population, but the church’s holdings are vast. First among its for-profit enterprises is DMC, which reaps estimated annual revenue of $1.2 billion from six subsidiaries, according to the business information and analysis firm Hoover’s Company Records (DNB). Those subsidiaries run a newspaper, 11 radio stations, a TV station, a publishing and distribution company, a digital media company, a hospitality business, and an insurance business with assets worth $3.3 billion.
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As a religious organization, the LDS Church enjoys several tax advantages. Like other churches, it is often exempt from paying taxes on the real estate properties it leases out, even to commercial entities, says tax lawyer David Miller, who is not Mormon. The church also doesn’t pay taxes on donated funds and holdings. Mitt Romney and others at Bain Capital, the private equity firm he co-founded in 1984, gave the Mormon Church millions’ worth of stock holdings obtained through Bain deals, according to Reuters. Between 1997 and 2009, these included $2 million in Burger King (BKW) and $1 million in Domino’s Pizza (DPZ) shares. Under U.S. law, churches can legally turn around and sell donated stock without paying capital-gains taxes, a clear advantage for both donor and receiver. The church also makes money through various investment vehicles, including a trust company and an investment fund called Ensign Peak Advisors, which employs managers who specialize in international equities, cash management, fixed income, quantitative investment, and emerging markets, according to profiles on LinkedIn (LNKD).
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Why isn't every corporation "charitable" then? Whether legal or not, it is pretty shady.
 
#43
#43
rjd970 said:
Why isn't every corporation "charitable" then? Whether legal or not, it is pretty shady.
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a better question would be, "what's your beef with the Mormon church?"

and I may be wrong, but the Catholic church probably makes the Mormon church look like amateur hour when it comes to it's financial dealings
 
#45
#45
volinbham said:
Are you kidding? This will just ramp it up - only paid 14% - wants to give the rich a tax break that the middle class will have to pay for.

It will never end.
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No it's not going to end with the media in your hip pocket... More smearing to come i'm sure.....
 
#46
#46
MG1968 said:
a better question would be, "what's your beef with the Mormon church?"

and I may be wrong, but the Catholic church probably makes the Mormon church look like amateur hour when it comes to it's financial dealings
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The catholic church doesn't require tithe to have access to certain temple ceremonies needed for the highest level of heaven. They also don't have a yearly meeting with each member of the church so they can prove it is a full 10%.

No particular beef, I just think the whole thing is a sham. By no means is any of what I say an endorsement of Catholicism or any other religion either. The LDS church is just especially bad at it. The members, like most churches, are good people.
 
#47
#47
rjd970, according to your link the average Mormon church member is giving less than $600/yr to the church. Doesn't look like a major move to obtain godly status within the church.

Any income earned by a 501(C)(3) through activities not exempt from taxes are taxed just like any other business.
 
#48
#48
rjd970 said:
The catholic church doesn't require tithe to have access to certain temple ceremonies needed for the highest level of heaven. They also don't have a yearly meeting with each member of the church so they can prove it is a full 10%.

No particular beef, I just think the whole thing is a sham. By no means is any of what I say an endorsement of Catholicism or any other religion either. The LDS church is just especially bad at it. The members, like most churches, are good people.
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They don't require a tithe either, its just recommended
 
#49
#49
In 2011, the Romneys paid $1,935,708 in taxes on $13,696,951 in mostly investment income.

Romney Campaign Says He Paid More Taxes Than He Had To
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>$13M in Income; most of that was investment income.

Let's assume that "most" simply means >50% (To keep it simple, 51%).

51% x $13M = 6.63M

Now, the top tear of the corporate income tax bracket is 35%; I think it is safe to assume that Romney's investments are mostly in businesses that make well over $18.3M. However, to be safe, let's say that the effective corporate income tax rate that was imposed on all of Romney's investments was 25%.

$6.63M / (1-.25) = $8.84M

$8.84M - $6.63M = $2.21M

Now, let's add the $2.21M that the government took from Romney back into his income:

$13.696M + $2.21M = $15.906M

And, then let's also add the $2.21 into his taxes paid:

$1.935M + $2.21M = $4.145M

Thus, Romney effectively paid $4.145M in taxes, giving him an effective tax rate of 30.03%.
 
#50
#50
RJD - In my mind, the question isn't whether or not the church uses some of that money to build its organization, it's whether or not the money is used in better ways than government would. My answer is that it most certainly is. I would guess that their charitable dollars are spent much more efficiently, and I'm pretty sure none of that money goes to drone-bombing women and children.

I'm totally good with the tax break.
 
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