Ryan's Budget Proposal - It's a Start

#2
#2
Much to like there. But I'm not sold on reducing the tax rate to the level propopsed. If everyone is to be involved and to make sacrifices in order to reduce our collective debt, then taxes must be a hardship to be endured. Lowering taxes is a debate to be had when we're in the black.
 
#3
#3
CSVol said:
Much to like there. But I'm not sold on reducing the tax rate to the level propopsed. If everyone is to be involved and to make sacrifices in order to reduce our collective debt, then taxes must be a hardship to be endured. Lowering taxes is a debate to be had when we're in the black.
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from the article

• Tax reform: This budget would focus on growth by reforming the nation's outdated tax code, consolidating brackets, lowering tax rates, and assuming top individual and corporate rates of 25%. It maintains a revenue-neutral approach by clearing out a burdensome tangle of deductions and loopholes that distort economic activity and leave some corporations paying no income taxes at all.
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while doing this we need to grow the economy and raising taxes won't help that at all.
 
#4
#4
Cutting spending wont help the economy either. You can argue right or wrong on whether these government positions should exist, but a lot of jobs will be lost with cuts to government (none of them being politicians).
 
#5
#5
cutting spending coupled with tax cuts will help. If they're not spending the money then they don't need it anymore right?

As for jobs lost, have you seen the reports coming out about the many gov't agencies doing the exact same work? Trimming the fat from gov't is a good idea for anyone who believes it's becoming too big
 
#6
#6
Weezy said:
Cutting spending wont help the economy either. You can argue right or wrong on whether these government positions should exist, but a lot of jobs will be lost with cuts to government (none of them being politicians).
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but if you don't cut these positions now they certainly wont get cut when we have more money.
 
#8
#8
it's definitely a start. keep cuttying. put more money back into the private sector.

i love all the same old talking points the dems give. old people, poor are all going to die, bla bla bla. it's so funny it's sad.
 
#9
#9
I'd like to hear more on the tax reform. If it's plan is to simplify so everyone pays instead of just lowering taxes, I'm for it. But I'm skeptical of just lowering taxes as a form of fighting the defecit.
 
#10
#10
CSVol said:
Much to like there. But I'm not sold on reducing the tax rate to the level propopsed. If everyone is to be involved and to make sacrifices in order to reduce our collective debt, then taxes must be a hardship to be endured. Lowering taxes is a debate to be had when we're in the black.
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Others responded with the revenue neutral idea and I'll add this.

Historically, regardless of marginal tax rates we see revenues to the Fed equally about 19% of GDP. Interestingly, this number is pretty stable across a wide range of tax policies.

One way to look at it is that 19-20% of GDP is where tax plans max out. Raise taxes substantially and GDP falls those reducing total tax inflows.

This is a pretty informative article and I think it makes the case Ryan is making for a simplified tax code and a revenue neutral impact.

The 19 Percent Solution - Reason Magazine
 
#12
#12
so we're going back to 2008 spending levels, what's the problem? the dems wrote the budget for 2008. shut it down.
 
#13
#13
Weezy said:
I'd like to hear more on the tax reform. If it's plan is to simplify so everyone pays instead of just lowering taxes, I'm for it. But I'm skeptical of just lowering taxes as a form of fighting the defecit.
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they are lowering rates not revenues. It's simplifying but the same money is coming in
 
#14
#14
Weezy said:
I'd like to hear more on the tax reform. If it's plan is to simplify so everyone pays instead of just lowering taxes, I'm for it. But I'm skeptical of just lowering taxes as a form of fighting the defecit.
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When the capital gains rate was cut during the Clinton administration, revenues to the treasury skyrocketed. When the cost of doing business is cheaper, more business gets done. For some reason, the left ignores this example set by one of their heroes.
 
#15
#15
Clearly there is a limit to tax cutting.

Interestingly enough, Ryan is proposing a tax increase for corporations both in the form of simplified structure so all companies pay and the removal of market distorting subsidies.
 
#16
#16
MG1968 said:
When the capital gains rate was cut during the Clinton administration, revenues to the treasury skyrocketed. When the cost of doing business is cheaper, more business gets done. For some reason, the left ignores this example set by one of their heroes.
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Evey time cap gain or dividend rates have gone down, treasury revenues have posted new records. I don't understand how it's so hard to see the "if A then B" correlation here.
 
#18
#18
BeecherVol said:
Exactly. Your not gonna find perfect IMO.
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Impossible. I will be shocked if we ever see a wholesale systematic change to our national budget. Too many special interest groups and we don't have enough elected officials in DC willing to put their jobs on the line in order to make the tough decisions. Being a congressman is more important than actually doing the job a congressman is supposed to do.
 
#19
#19
tigervol9802 said:
Impossible. I will be shocked if we ever see a wholesale systematic change to our national budget. Too many special interest groups and we don't have enough elected officials in DC willing to put their jobs on the line in order to make the tough decisions. Being a congressman is more important than actually doing the job a congressman is supposed to do.
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Yep.

When the wagon is rolling off a bluff you just hope that everyone acknowledges it. Then they figure out a way to stop it, even if the methods do not agree.
 
#20
#20
I think this sets up for an interesting fight. The left is coming out already with the usual accusations but they've put nothing on the table to address the problem. Will the public look at the Ryan plan as a start to an important discussion or listen to the exaggerated complaints.

The optimist in me thinks maybe the majority of the country is ready to listen and consider these type changes.
 
#21
#21
BeecherVol said:
Yep.

When the wagon is rolling off a bluff you just hope that everyone acknowledges it. Then they figure out a way to stop it, even if the methods do not agree.
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Unfortunately I have a feeling the wagon is going to be teetering on edge like in an old western ready to fall before we decide that it's time to actually do soemthign to solve the problem.
 
#22
#22
I think reducing the highest tax brackets while eliminating loopholes is a good idea. I also agree with VBH on this, it is definitely a good start. The repubs deserve some credit here.
 
#23
#23
volinbham said:
I think this sets up for an interesting fight. The left is coming out already with the usual accusations but they've put nothing on the table to address the problem. Will the public look at the Ryan plan as a start to an important discussion or listen to the exaggerated complaints.

The optimist in me thinks maybe the majority of the country is ready to listen and consider these type changes.
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Im sure they will throw rocks at it. But at this point its a mindset that congress and the president need to have.

To the public side, there will be disagreements there as well. But if your standing in line fighting cuts, do be ill when nothing is cut and everything falls apart later.
 
#24
#24
tigervol9802 said:
Unfortunately I have a feeling the wagon is going to be teetering on edge like in an old western ready to fall before we decide that it's time to actually do soemthign to solve the problem.
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Politics normally get in the way of doing whats best. That makes the bigger government ideas asinine.
 
#25
#25
From the article:

As we strengthen and improve welfare programs for those who need them, we eliminate welfare for those who don't. Our budget targets corporate welfare, starting by ending the conservatorship of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that is costing taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars. It gets rid of the permanent Wall Street bailout authority that Congress created last year. And it rolls back expensive handouts for uncompetitive sources of energy, calling instead for a free and open marketplace for energy development, innovation and exploration.
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This says everything right, I have doubts it can get executed though.
 
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