Saban Does His Thing

#26
#26
davethevol said:
I'm with Saban on this minus throwing the guy's stuff away.
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I don't think the staff did that.. Players.
He already said he didn't want to be part of the team.. I can understand this. GTFO if you don't want to be there.. Locker room mentality I can understand this..
 
#27
#27
TUSKtimes said:
Sure you were. The fact you have to re-post to clarify is only a testament to how poorly you framed the discussion.
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Ha...go back and read it again real slow. The fact that I have to re-post says more about you than me.
 
#28
#28
bamawriter said:
Black left before the Spring, so he didn't have a playbook to divulge. Smith went all the way thru Spring practice before requesting a transfer.
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so its a timing issue now? is saban really changing things that much with a new DC? i am guessing not.
 
#29
#29
LouderVol said:
so its a timing issue now? is saban really changing things that much with a new DC? i am guessing not.
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I don't think it's solely about timing, though I think timing plays into it. The defensive scheme isn't all that different, but most staffs start adding in signals during the Spring. Knowing signals can be a pretty huge advantage for an opposing staff.

But I think more of it is the reasoning behind the transfer, and the way both players approached it. Black has had terrible injury luck, and was going to be somewhere around 6th or 7th on the depth chart. He asked for a transfer near the end of last season, and Saban made an exception for an in-conference transfer. Smith was starting at nickel (which is the base package in Bama's scheme) and waited until after Spring ball to request his transfer. Smith didn't have injury issues, and he wasn't fighting for playing time. Heck, he was willing to ride the pine for 3 years without requesting a transfer. Saban wanted him on the team, and was not willing to grant an exception for a transfer. Smith could have gone anywhere else in the country, but he held out for an SEC school.

Again, whether or not the rule is fair and whether or not you think Saban's decision-making is hypocritical, the two situations are very different.
 
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#31
#31
bamawriter said:
The article's wording in somewhat inaccurate. Saban can't block a transfer. But he's not going to grant Smith's release in conference (which is SEC policy), so Smith would have to sit out 2016 and finish up his final year in 2017. I'm not a fan of transfer restrictions like that; the schools have enough power over players as it is.

That said, something is weird with Smith. This isn't about playing time or injuries. There is logic in refusing to let a kid who knows your signals head off to join a coaching staff that is familiar with your system.

I hope the story about trashing his stuff isn't true. But the staff was 100% right to ban him from the facility, and they told him to clear out his locker and he refused. They should have boxed it up and told him to pick it up from the receptionist.
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Thats the interesting part to me. If it's ultimately the coaches decision (whether you agree with it or not) I don't see the reason for a conference policy.
 
#32
#32
BeecherVol said:
Thats the interesting part to me. If it's ultimately the coaches decision (whether you agree with it or not) I don't see the reason for a conference policy.
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I think the purpose of the rule is to keep SEC coaches from putting blanket restrictions on graduate transfers. If a graduate wants to transfer out of conference, the coach can't stop it. So, in principle, Smart is violating the rule by trying to prevent transfers from UGA to Miami.
 
#33
#33
bamawriter said:
I think the purpose of the rule is to keep SEC coaches from putting blanket restrictions on graduate transfers. If a graduate wants to transfer out of conference, the coach can't stop it. So, in principle, Smart is violating the rule by trying to prevent transfers from UGA to Miami.
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But in this case its the coaches call since he is wanting to go in the conference?

I think they should be allowed to go where ever they want if they have already graduated.
 
#34
#34
BeecherVol said:
But in this case its the coaches call since he is wanting to go in the conference?
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Basically. It's up to the coach whether to grant an exception or not.

I think they should be allowed to go where ever they want if they have already graduated.
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I agree. I see Saban's point when it comes to Smith, but I'd just let him go.
 
#35
#35
bamawriter said:
Basically. It's up to the coach whether to grant an exception or not.



I agree. I see Saban's point when it comes to Smith, but I'd just let him go.
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Yeah. If Smart can jump to a better situation of his choosing that really shouldn't be limited just to him.
 
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#36
#36
and fwiw Butch just let one of our scholarship punters go to Florida (he has a brother there).
 
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#37
#37
This is a specific situation in which the player is a graduate. meaning he's now a free man and done his time. Should be no problem letting him go because he is done with his education.

In the case of other students still in school absolutely I can see why they shouldn't be allowed to go. They are STUDENT athletes. Not professionals, and the school has given them tens of thousands of dollars and a certificate of higher education. means they have to live up to their obligations.

Also, you can't have a wild west situation where kids from all schools can drop and transfer every time salami needs a player to fill a whole. It creates an unfair advantage.

In this case though. Let the kid go. He's a GRADUATE and that's the operative in this case.
 
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#38
#38
IluvdoubleD's said:
This is a specific situation in which the player is a graduate. meaning he's now a free man and done his time. Should be no problem letting him go because he is done with his education.

In the case of other students still in school absolutely I can see why they shouldn't be allowed to go. They are STUDENT athletes. Not professionals, and the school has given them tens of thousands of dollars and a certificate of higher education. means they have to live up to their obligations.

Also, you can't have a wild west situation where kids from all schools can drop and transfer every time salami needs a player to fill a whole. It creates an unfair advantage.

In this case though. Let the kid go. He's a GRADUATE and that's the operative in this case.
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And this post was the point of my original OP. It is hypocritical to control a guy that gave you 4 years - because 4 years is a normal scholarship period. The RS year is on the coach and school. They do not have to RS a player. Especially when you grant an in-conference transfer to another player on your roster while you do not with this one.

Saban uses people and rules like toilet paper. But because his teams win, all is forgiven. No. These are student athletes going to college playing a sport. He should have no ability to make arbitrary decisions any more than the decisions that affect all other students. Make the policy in accordance with NCAA and SEC rules and administer it the same for everybody. Leave the coach out of it.

This is bad stuff that people are ignoring.
 
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#39
#39
Vols4us said:
And this post was the point of my original OP. It is hypocritical to control a guy that gave you 4 years - because 4 years is a normal scholarship period. The RS year is on the coach and school. They do not have to RS a player. Especially when you grant an in-conference transfer to another player on your roster while you do not with this one.
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I may be missing your point, but Smith never redshirted. He played 3 years at Bama and is a true Senior in 2016.

Saban uses people and rules like toilet paper. But because his teams win, all is forgiven. No. These are student athletes going to college playing a sport. He should have no ability to make arbitrary decisions any more than the decisions that affect all other students. Make the policy in accordance with NCAA and SEC rules and administer it the same for everybody. Leave the coach out of it.

This is bad stuff that people are ignoring.
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Again, I may be missing your point, but if you want to apply the SEC rule with no involvement from the coaches then Smith's situation would be identical to how it is now: he'd have to sit out a year at UGA. It would be Chris Black who'd get screwed as he wouldn't be granted an exception to go to Mizzou.
 
#41
#41
bamawriter said:
I may be missing your point, but Smith never redshirted. He played 3 years at Bama and is a true Senior in 2016.



Again, I may be missing your point, but if you want to apply the SEC rule with no involvement from the coaches then Smith's situation would be identical to how it is now: he'd have to sit out a year at UGA. It would be Chris Black who'd get screwed as he wouldn't be granted an exception to go to Mizzou.
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I stand corrected on the RS, although it was not really my point. Once a guy graduates he can transfer if his present school does not offer the graduate program he wants to enter. But the broader point is the players are student athletes. When they graduate they have fulfilled their obligation. The HC at every institution has the right to discontinue any scholarship at that and any point in reality, so should the student athlete. The SEC rule allows for exceptions as it plainly states. The reason Saban (and you) do not want Maurice Smith to transfer to UGA has zero to do with SEC compliance or doing the right thing. He and you know that Kirby will know how to use him against you. If you are doing the right thing as a HC you are looking first at the right thing for the student athlete - not your program or W/L above all. Just like Butch approving the transfer of Tommy Thompson to UF and Saban himself approving Black on the Mizzou transfer. The reason he does not approve it is because Smith could damage Bama's performance on the field while Black is unlikely to do so.

His obstinance and treatment of the player's parents is duly noted in the link below. He walks out on the momma. You sit there and take it like a man if you control the fate of a student athlete who is leaving your program and do not want to accommodate their desires. Especially when said student athlete gave you his all to the program until he graduated. By sitting there, maybe he would learn some lessons on the golden rule, however unlikely that may be.

Maurice Smith, parents speak out about ongoing battle with Alabama | AL.com
 
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#42
#42
TUSKtimes said:
He is a graduate transfer. He can go anywhere he likes and needs no approval. Just not in the SEC. Said he wanted to go to Miami, so go already. Saban would have put him on the plane.
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You're a liar sir. He can go to UGA or any other SEC school IF Saban let's him. Your coach is a liar too. Look up the name Chris Black. He too was a Grad transfer FROM bammer to Mizzou THIS year. There's one difference. Do you (unlike your liar coach) have the honesty to answer?
2 grad transfers from the same school. 1 is allowed and the other isn't. So if it's a rule as liar Saban says, explain how Chris Blach got to transfer to Mizzou?
 
#43
#43
ReaderVol said:
You're a liar sir. He can go to UGA or any other SEC school IF Saban let's him. Your coach is a liar too. Look up the name Chris Black. He too was a Grad transfer FROM bammer to Mizzou THIS year. There's one difference. Do you (unlike your liar coach) have the honesty to answer?
2 grad transfers from the same school. 1 is allowed and the other isn't. So if it's a rule as liar Saban says, explain how Chris Blach got to transfer to Mizzou?
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Like I said earlier in the thread: Black was constantly injured, was buried on the depth chart, and transferred for playing time after requesting his transfer near the end of last season. Smith was in line to start, asked for his transfer following Spring practice, and wants to go to a staff that knows Bama's system and could do a lot of damage if they knew the new signals.

While, again, I would just let Smith go, it's dishonest to act like the situations are identical.
 
#44
#44
ReaderVol said:
You're a liar sir. He can go to UGA or any other SEC school IF Saban let's him. Your coach is a liar too. Look up the name Chris Black. He too was a Grad transfer FROM bammer to Mizzou THIS year. There's one difference. Do you (unlike your liar coach) have the honesty to answer?
2 grad transfers from the same school. 1 is allowed and the other isn't. So if it's a rule as liar Saban says, explain how Chris Blach got to transfer to Mizzou?
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You are incorrect, Smith can go to Georgia right now. No one can stop him, not even Saban, he must, however, sit out a season, but Mo can go. That was fun, let's do another variable?
 
#45
#45
TUSKtimes said:
My first comment spoke on Smith situation specifically. And no he isn't going to a SEC team. I'm also well aware of Black leaving for Missouri and the SEC bylaw about transferring as a graduate.

If it's the coaches discretion on this rule, it's going to be difficult for such a coach to "break" the rule, when he exercises it. And I already know what butch would do, hypocrisy and all. You, on the other hand, should work much more diligently on your reading comprehension issues.
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Strangely enough, I see your side on this. Hypothetically, if this were Dobbs, Reeves-Maybin, or Sutton wanting to transfer to a school we might face in the SECCG, the arguments you are getting would change. If the rules are written that way, so be it. Just because one coach is believed to be the offspring of the devil, and has to stand on phone books at media days because he is a sawed off little squirt does not change that.
 
#46
#46
TNnative said:
Strangely enough, I see your side on this. Hypothetically, if this were Dobbs, Reeves-Maybin, or Sutton wanting to transfer to a school we might face in the SECCG, the arguments you are getting would change. If the rules are written that way, so be it. Just because one coach is believed to be the offspring of the devil, and has to stand on phone books at media days because he is a sawed off little squirt does not change that.
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I think a kid who has graduated has earned the right to decide if and where he would like to continue to play. Smith's defensive statistics are comparable to Evan Berry, not the other guys you mentioned, but it doesn't matter to me. When you have one year of eligibility it's difficult to want to learn a new system (realizing the system at Bama won't change much). The guy want's to follow his DC to UGA, that's completely understandable. I didn't see Saban limit where his assistants go, Muschamp has been at two SEC Schools and of course Smart is at UGA. Who is more of a threat, going up against coaches who know your system or some guy that's made 38 total tackles in three years at Alabama?
 
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#47
#47
TNnative said:
Strangely enough, I see your side on this. Hypothetically, if this were Dobbs, Reeves-Maybin, or Sutton wanting to transfer to a school we might face in the SECCG, the arguments you are getting would change. If the rules are written that way, so be it. Just because one coach is believed to be the offspring of the devil, and has to stand on phone books at media days because he is a sawed off little squirt does not change that.
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it would be more accurate to say it was Gaulden than any of our alleged starters with experience. and it would be like saying no to Gaulden right after we let Tommy Townsend to Florida. oh wait that already happened, welp by, see you Gaulden.

we aren't complaining about the rule we are complaining about the hypocrisy.
 
#48
#48
LouderVol said:
it would be more accurate to say it was Gaulden than any of our alleged starters with experience. and it would be like saying no to Gaulden right after we let Tommy Townsend to Florida.
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I'm not seeing how the Townsend transfer is a good comparison to Smith's. Townsend will be sitting out next season. Given that he's an undergrad, there's no waiver that Butch can give that would allow him to play in 2016.
 
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