Science and Religion: Creationism/Evolution Thread

#51
#51
DownTheField said:
francis collins- director of the NIH, leader of the Human Genome Project, and a self-described Evangelical Christian- says that doubting evolution is like doubting the earth orbits the sun... so you might not be as bold in your dissent
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If Francis Collins says, then this makes it gospel? Interesting! People use to say, "When E.F. Hutton speaks, people listen!"
 
#53
#53
Oldvol75 said:
If Francis Collins says, then this makes it gospel? Interesting! People use to say, "When E.F. Hutton speaks, people listen!"
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no, my point was exactly the opposite- when there are dissenting views that are equally well thought out, we should be humble in our approach
 
#54
#54
DownTheField said:
francis collins- director of the NIH, leader of the Human Genome Project, and a self-described Evangelical Christian- says that doubting evolution is like doubting the earth orbits the sun... so you might not be as bold in your dissent
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We have facts supporting the Sun as the center of the solar system. I'm all about the facts. To date no one has shown the an example or even advanced a testable theory of how one species evolves into another. Dogma exists every bit as much in the scientific community as in the theological. I would submit that Mr. Collins is long on dogma and short on facts
 
#56
#56
1974Vol said:
True about Darwin never directly addressing religion, but it was his attempt to offer a theory of how we got here without there having been the necessity of a creator. I don't have an issue with that, just the assertion that Evolution is anymore than a proven theory than say the Big Bang. There is no evidence to support the idea that lower species evolve into higher life forms. There is wide variation within species owing to environment and recently human "tinkering" but there is not one demonstration of one species evolving into another.
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i disagree; he never wanted to disprove god or say religion was wrong or anything of the sorts

it really was more about how animals survive or adapt in the wild (and in means such as why you see very similar species that could be separated by vast distances)

(and of course, people fail sometimes to realize the biggest factor - and i think he points it out - is more oftentimes right place, right time luck than anything else)

i'm a bit removed from my classes on the subject, but iirc he was still a pretty religious man, while a man who sought out knowledge as well

in fact what i do remember is the church of england came after him saying "no you're book counters what we believe", he never went after them or intended to attack them at all
 
#57
#57
1974Vol said:
We have facts supporting the Sun as the center of the solar system. I'm all about the facts. To date no one has shown the an example or even advanced a testable theory of how one species evolves into another. Dogma exists every bit as much in the scientific community as in the theological. I would submit that Mr. Collins is long on dogma and short on facts
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i will take this to mean that you have read his multiple published, peer reviewed works where he has put his money where his mouth is and it has all left you unimpressed
 
#58
#58
The fact is that evolution occurs.

As we so often post over football recruits, where is your link? There is no scientific evidence that any species has ever evolved into another.
 
#62
#62
Oldvol75 said:
Theory, new word for truth???? Nothing like changing a word to make it fit your beliefs!
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Uhm....see, there you go again. I said something can be true and a theory, and that theory doesn't mean what you think it does. What I didn't say is that if something is a theory then it is true. In fact, it is often the things that cause something to be called a theory that are disputable enough to not quite satisfy definitions of truth.
 
#65
#65
1974Vol said:
The fact is that evolution occurs.

As we so often post over football recruits, where is your link? There is no scientific evidence that any species has ever evolved into another.
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...you wouldnt be able to have "facts" as you so deem it (in the chemistry or biology fields) on a process that would take thousands or millions of years, simply because of look at how short a time humanity has occupied the earth,
so unless you have a friend who can speed up time with no adverse effects to you and him....:p

the closest you can get to a proven step "fact" system would be the fossil record and comparison of the similarities and differences between deceased species and current ones

the thing is though, if someone is certain and unwaivering in their ideas and not open to even possibilities, they will throw it and anything that disagrees with their views to the side and declare it lies irregardless
 
#67
#67
TrueOrange said:
...you wouldnt be able to have "facts" as you so deem it (in the chemistry or biology fields) on a process that would take thousands or millions of years, simply because of look at how short a time humanity has occupied the earth,
so unless you have a friend who can speed up time with no adverse effects to you and him....:p

the closest you can get to a proven step "fact" system would be the fossil record and comparison of the similarities and differences between deceased species and current ones

the thing is though, if someone is certain and unwaivering in their ideas and not open to even possibilities, they will throw it and anything that disagrees with their views to the side and declare it lies irregardless
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The fossil record is a minor notch in the evolutionary belt. For some odd reason, people act like it is the buckle.
 
#68
#68
DownTheField said:
i will take this to mean that you have read his multiple published, peer reviewed works where he has put his money where his mouth is and it has all left you unimpressed
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No I am unfamiliar with Mr. Collins work I merely responded to his dogmatic statement. Evolution is very much akin to the theory of Global Warming in that while it to is unproven it elicits strong emotional responses from its defenders when the theory is questioned. I find it telling rather than provide conclusive prove that Evolution takes place Mr. Collins prefers to berate those who would disagree with him.
 
#70
#70
turambar85 said:
The fossil record is a minor notch in the evolutionary belt. For some odd reason, people act like it is the buckle.
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confused here;

I never said it was the fact, but i did say based on the type of subject this is, it's the closest thing - i felt i guess - you can get to a so-defined "fact" unless you can freely transcend time....

i think i was morehonestly getting more at the last part about how people are so sometimes stuck in their ideas that they throw aside anything that disagrees

i mean though if this is a target at "everything could have been alive there at once"....that counters alot about how much life biological systems can hold and sustain at once

again unsure where exactly you're going here or maybe how you read my post as well
 
#72
#72
TrueOrange said:
...you wouldnt be able to have "facts" as you so deem it (in the chemistry or biology fields) on a process that would take thousands or millions of years, simply because of look at how short a time humanity has occupied the earth,
so unless you have a friend who can speed up time with no adverse effects to you and him....:p

the closest you can get to a proven step "fact" system would be the fossil record and comparison of the similarities and differences between deceased species and current ones

the thing is though, if someone is certain and unwaivering in their ideas and not open to even possibilities, they will throw it and anything that disagrees with their views to the side and declare it lies irregardless
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I have no issue with Evolution being promoted as one of several possible theories of how life came to be. It just bothers me when it’s presented as undeniable scientific fact on par with the germ theory of disease. As I previously posted it is no more a proven fact than is Global Warming and elicits the same dogmatic response from those "believers" when the theory is questioned.
 
#74
#74
1974Vol said:
No I am unfamiliar with Mr. Collins work I merely responded to his dogmatic statement. Evolution is very much akin to the theory of Global Warming in that while it to is unproven it elicits strong emotional responses from its defenders when the theory is questioned. I find it telling rather than provide conclusive prove that Evolution takes place Mr. Collins prefers to berate those who would disagree with him.
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well, of course, i didn't give you any context... and, i'm sure you know, a text without a context is a pretext... but i assure you he (and thousands of others on both- or many- sides) aren't throwing out mere "dogma"
 
#75
#75
1974Vol said:
I have no issue with Evolution being promoted as one of several possible theories of how life came to be. It just bothers me when it’s presented as undeniable scientific fact on par with the germ theory of disease. As I previously posted it is no more a proven fact than is Global Warming and elicits the same dogmatic response from those "believers" when the theory is questioned.
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well the problem is that on the other end, religious people give the same dogmatic responses to their creation ideas or stories ever being questioned at all; it's both sides (i know people who call fossils lies from the devil)

that said, alot of this information and studies are being manipulated to support people's agendas...on both sides
 
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