See ya Selby, a BP fan gets nervous

#26
#26
Maybe that's why Bruce is overseas. Maybe he's maturing himself as a coach. Maybe he's being a good father and maturing there. We will see. But in reality, it seems we lost just another talented player that has a poor attitude. And with that said, I'd rather know my coach is building his skills, helping the program as a whole and being around his son in an important developmental period for him and not worried about chasing around a guy who already has attitude issues. But that's just me.[/QUOTE]

I do really love in all seriousness that Bruce is spending time with his son. Tubby Smith took a lot of flack at UGA and UK for nepotism, but like Tubby, Bruce does not play his son more than he should and is in fact developing a hard working and smart player who may one day be an excellent coach.
 
#27
#27
Maybe that's why Bruce is overseas. Maybe he's maturing himself as a coach. Maybe he's being a good father and maturing there. We will see. But in reality, it seems we lost just another talented player that has a poor attitude. And with that said, I'd rather know my coach is building his skills, helping the program as a whole and being around his son in an important developmental period for him and not worried about chasing around a guy who already has attitude issues. But that's just me.

I do really love in all seriousness that Bruce is spending time with his son. Tubby Smith took a lot of flack at UGA and UK for nepotism, but like Tubby, Bruce does not play his son more than he should and is in fact developing a hard working and smart player who may one day be an excellent coach.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I see they just lost to Russia. Maybe that means they will be back sooner than later? I am curious as to what Bruce's response is to this entire situation.
 
#28
#28
They play Argentina tomorrow and if they win by 4+ they will still be in the medal round and could win the gold. I would expect them to bounce back from the loss with better defense and offense tomorrow.
 
#29
#29
I have read the previous threads and I wanted to give my own perspective. I love TN basketball. I have personally attended games during the Wade Houston, O'Neill, Green, Peterson and Pearl eras. I also love learning history and so I think I have a realistic vision of what TN basketball is and should be.

TN has basketball history. The complete idiots posting on here that Bruce Pearl saved TN basketball that has always sucked need to shut their mouths until they have looked at cumulative basketball records and learned about Coach Devoe.

TN has top 20 in the nation facilities. Thompson Boling used to have the problem of being too big, which tons of schools would love to have, now it is one of the truly special venues in college basketball and aside from being top notch it is in an area where when the product is exciting, the mens program can make the school alot of money.

TN mens program has nothing to fear from the womens program. A mediocre mens team has always outsold the very best women's teams in the history of college basketball and it will always be so. That could be because lots of us are aware that we can hang with some of the UT womens players 1 on 1, and that we would be humiliated by Skyler McBee. Put another way, Pearl's son would be the best player in the WNBA.

Pearls product is exciting. Was I ecstatic when TN beat UK in Rupp under O'Neill? Yes! But was it painful to watch that game that I think ended up 44-42? Sure was. Jerry Green had fast players who scored alot of points and sometimes quit playing defense. Pearls teams do more to put pressure on inbounders and to press when they have the personnel than Green ever did. It is an exciting style of play.

Pearl's recruiting has been less than stellar.
In another thread people talked about who Pearl brought in, I will discuss these players.
5* Scotty Hopson his highest rated recruit. Pearl homers claimed that he was going to be one and done. He was not ready to play in the SEC as a freshman. He may end up being a great player, it remains to be seen. I think he has the most raw potential for NBA play since V Yarborough, and I hope it is coached better.
5* JP Prince - He WAS NOT a 5 star recruit for TN. You either know about basketball and you purposely left out the truth or you are ignorant. JP was a 5 star recruit for Arizona who showed up and was not good enough to play in the PAC 10. Rumors from prolonged mono to Lyme's disease surrounded his lethargy and struggles as he lost weight on an already skinny frame. He came back to his home state with high expectations for those who remembered his high school hype. Since he has been at UT he has been a disaster as a PG, and struggled as an SG and is too small to be a F. Maybe this year he has a great year (I actually think he will) and maybe he even gets in late and hangs on at an NBA team (I think that is likely also) but he is not a 5 star TN recruit.
5* Ramar Smith - Kid with tons of skills and tons of attitude problems right off the bat. This kids is the opposite of a Stephon Curry, but reminds me of other players like T White who never made the NBA because they let other parts of life drag them down.
5* Duke Crews - He was recruited in part to be nasty. He was and is nasty...Thug life did not work out for UT.
4* Tyler Smith - Remarkable young man, fell into our lap because of his Father's cancer. Not a TN recruit, rather and Iowa tranfer.
4* Emmanuel Negedu He brought Marisa Miller to a TN game which gives us a star to outshine Ashley Judd. I am hopeful he will develop more, but for now he is a Stanley Asumnu guy who has great hops and nice dunks but who never fills up a stat sheet the way that a less talented Dane Bradshaw does.
4* Renaldo Woolridge - Did not seem ready. Could end up being good. Sad so far.
4* Kenny Hall He seemed like he did well in the Rocky Top League so I am hopeful he will beef up some and be great.
4* Jordan McRae a JP Prince replacement? What will his role be?
4* Phillip Jurrick - This is the worst knock on Pearl. If he doesnt take a hometownish guy (Chatt) who wants to come and is a 4 star, people rip him, but like with Kiffin and Tahj Boyd, PJ never fit Pearls system at all.
3* Bobby Maze - JUCO All-American. We needed him because we had no good PGs. He has been okay but not good enough to pressure the ball and keep people from collapsing on the inside.
3* Brian Williams Best coaching job by Pearl so far by far. This guy gets better every year and was a PROJECT and a half. Credit to big Brian for doing the work and to Pearl for knowing he could/would.


What does it mean that Bruce Pearl takes off to go to coach the Maccabiah games and while watching Grunfeld and his son (who is finally starring) rip up teams by 70 points our best recruit in his tenure here decommits? It means something.

No one is publicly discussing much the turmoil in Bruce's private life and the toll that may be taking, people just prayed that the big house and the new girl would get him all the way back on track.

Where do we go from here? Does TN have to have a Nike contract to be successful in basketball? No. Given that unlike Kansas we are not one of the top 5 basketball programs of all time, would it help if we had a different shoe contract? Yes.

Bruce Pearl took over a program with some real talent left by Buzz Peterson. He is a better coach than Buzz. He had unbelievable facilities that are now even better than they were. Practice, locker rooms etc we should not miss a recruit because of facilities. We are also not devoid of tradition but if a kid grows up thinking of top programs he will want to head to Duke, Carolina, Kansas etc. If a stud kid wants to go to the NBA, he will think about the guy he models his game after and look to his school. Big men can go to Georgetown, pgs to Texas etc.

Bruce Pearl needs to have point guards who are fast as anything and who can shoot the three. He also needs point guards who want to press and steal and have thunder dunks. His system should be easy to sell to top recruits. We need hard workers, not lazy prima donnas who hate defense, we need model citizens, not illiterate pot smoking thugs etc. I think Bruce knows all of this. I think my worry is that sometimes he seems to recruit the wrong players, and we are to the place now where he has his best team talentwise and a VERY small window to do something with it.

All of that said, TN gets to the Elite 8 this year. It is the best finish in my lifetime and should bring in some of the studs who are thinking about TN. We will settle into the groove of 2nd best team in SEC East and a constant threat in the NCAA tournament. That will keep Bruce here and will be a ton of fun. It is also incredible when you think about how he eased past Billy D and Florida. Thanks Dane Bradshaw amongst others.

I am a little sad at this point but I know Bruce is a better coach than anyone else we would get to come to TN at this point, and I know he will really make something special happen with this team. Talent wise, Prince, Hopson, Smith and Chism will give us 4 starters who all could play in the NBA potentially. That has never been the case in my life. A problem is that we still have too many tall guys who are not fast enough to press, but I am hoping that when we beat Memphis this year and they have a bad year post Cal, some of the Worldwide Wes express will be derailed and we will start getting more Memphis area ballers. Willie Kemp would have done much better under Pearl than he will do in his career at Tiger High.

Thanks for reading, I look forward to continuing the conversation.

Tennessee didn't beat UK at Rupp under O'Neill. Maybe you should study your UT history a little more. That was Green.
 
#30
#30
I'd rather beat UK 44-42 than to lose by over 20 twice a season.

Which obviously means I want Jerry Green back.
 
#31
#31
I have read the previous threads and I wanted to give my own perspective. I love TN basketball. I have personally attended games during the Wade Houston, O'Neill, Green, Peterson and Pearl eras. I also love learning history and so I think I have a realistic vision of what TN basketball is and should be.

TN has basketball history. The complete idiots posting on here that Bruce Pearl saved TN basketball that has always sucked need to shut their mouths until they have looked at cumulative basketball records and learned about Coach Devoe.

TN has top 20 in the nation facilities. Thompson Boling used to have the problem of being too big, which tons of schools would love to have, now it is one of the truly special venues in college basketball and aside from being top notch it is in an area where when the product is exciting, the mens program can make the school alot of money.

TN mens program has nothing to fear from the womens program. A mediocre mens team has always outsold the very best women's teams in the history of college basketball and it will always be so. That could be because lots of us are aware that we can hang with some of the UT womens players 1 on 1, and that we would be humiliated by Skyler McBee. Put another way, Pearl's son would be the best player in the WNBA.

Pearls product is exciting. Was I ecstatic when TN beat UK in Rupp under O'Neill? Yes! But was it painful to watch that game that I think ended up 44-42? Sure was. Jerry Green had fast players who scored alot of points and sometimes quit playing defense. Pearls teams do more to put pressure on inbounders and to press when they have the personnel than Green ever did. It is an exciting style of play.

Pearl's recruiting has been less than stellar.
In another thread people talked about who Pearl brought in, I will discuss these players.
5* Scotty Hopson his highest rated recruit. Pearl homers claimed that he was going to be one and done. He was not ready to play in the SEC as a freshman. He may end up being a great player, it remains to be seen. I think he has the most raw potential for NBA play since V Yarborough, and I hope it is coached better.
5* JP Prince - He WAS NOT a 5 star recruit for TN. You either know about basketball and you purposely left out the truth or you are ignorant. JP was a 5 star recruit for Arizona who showed up and was not good enough to play in the PAC 10. Rumors from prolonged mono to Lyme's disease surrounded his lethargy and struggles as he lost weight on an already skinny frame. He came back to his home state with high expectations for those who remembered his high school hype. Since he has been at UT he has been a disaster as a PG, and struggled as an SG and is too small to be a F. Maybe this year he has a great year (I actually think he will) and maybe he even gets in late and hangs on at an NBA team (I think that is likely also) but he is not a 5 star TN recruit.
5* Ramar Smith - Kid with tons of skills and tons of attitude problems right off the bat. This kids is the opposite of a Stephon Curry, but reminds me of other players like T White who never made the NBA because they let other parts of life drag them down.
5* Duke Crews - He was recruited in part to be nasty. He was and is nasty...Thug life did not work out for UT.
4* Tyler Smith - Remarkable young man, fell into our lap because of his Father's cancer. Not a TN recruit, rather and Iowa tranfer.
4* Emmanuel Negedu He brought Marisa Miller to a TN game which gives us a star to outshine Ashley Judd. I am hopeful he will develop more, but for now he is a Stanley Asumnu guy who has great hops and nice dunks but who never fills up a stat sheet the way that a less talented Dane Bradshaw does.
4* Renaldo Woolridge - Did not seem ready. Could end up being good. Sad so far.
4* Kenny Hall He seemed like he did well in the Rocky Top League so I am hopeful he will beef up some and be great.
4* Jordan McRae a JP Prince replacement? What will his role be?
4* Phillip Jurrick - This is the worst knock on Pearl. If he doesnt take a hometownish guy (Chatt) who wants to come and is a 4 star, people rip him, but like with Kiffin and Tahj Boyd, PJ never fit Pearls system at all.
3* Bobby Maze - JUCO All-American. We needed him because we had no good PGs. He has been okay but not good enough to pressure the ball and keep people from collapsing on the inside.
3* Brian Williams Best coaching job by Pearl so far by far. This guy gets better every year and was a PROJECT and a half. Credit to big Brian for doing the work and to Pearl for knowing he could/would.


What does it mean that Bruce Pearl takes off to go to coach the Maccabiah games and while watching Grunfeld and his son (who is finally starring) rip up teams by 70 points our best recruit in his tenure here decommits? It means something.

No one is publicly discussing much the turmoil in Bruce's private life and the toll that may be taking, people just prayed that the big house and the new girl would get him all the way back on track.

Where do we go from here? Does TN have to have a Nike contract to be successful in basketball? No. Given that unlike Kansas we are not one of the top 5 basketball programs of all time, would it help if we had a different shoe contract? Yes.

Bruce Pearl took over a program with some real talent left by Buzz Peterson. He is a better coach than Buzz. He had unbelievable facilities that are now even better than they were. Practice, locker rooms etc we should not miss a recruit because of facilities. We are also not devoid of tradition but if a kid grows up thinking of top programs he will want to head to Duke, Carolina, Kansas etc. If a stud kid wants to go to the NBA, he will think about the guy he models his game after and look to his school. Big men can go to Georgetown, pgs to Texas etc.

Bruce Pearl needs to have point guards who are fast as anything and who can shoot the three. He also needs point guards who want to press and steal and have thunder dunks. His system should be easy to sell to top recruits. We need hard workers, not lazy prima donnas who hate defense, we need model citizens, not illiterate pot smoking thugs etc. I think Bruce knows all of this. I think my worry is that sometimes he seems to recruit the wrong players, and we are to the place now where he has his best team talentwise and a VERY small window to do something with it.

All of that said, TN gets to the Elite 8 this year. It is the best finish in my lifetime and should bring in some of the studs who are thinking about TN. We will settle into the groove of 2nd best team in SEC East and a constant threat in the NCAA tournament. That will keep Bruce here and will be a ton of fun. It is also incredible when you think about how he eased past Billy D and Florida. Thanks Dane Bradshaw amongst others.

I am a little sad at this point but I know Bruce is a better coach than anyone else we would get to come to TN at this point, and I know he will really make something special happen with this team. Talent wise, Prince, Hopson, Smith and Chism will give us 4 starters who all could play in the NBA potentially. That has never been the case in my life. A problem is that we still have too many tall guys who are not fast enough to press, but I am hoping that when we beat Memphis this year and they have a bad year post Cal, some of the Worldwide Wes express will be derailed and we will start getting more Memphis area ballers. Willie Kemp would have done much better under Pearl than he will do in his career at Tiger High.

Thanks for reading, I look forward to continuing the conversation.
Well good luck trying to get "Memphis Ballers" to come to Knoxville. The fact that you choose to insult their city's school, will help keep them there.

Thanks!!
 
#32
#32
That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of Kemp's career has been spent sitting on UM's bench. What a waste of talent.
 
#33
#33
And they regularly get beaten by those male players.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

That's exactly right. People who act like Lady Vols' or any other women's bball players for that matter are on par with decent to good male players are either stupid or have never played basketball in their life.
 
#35
#35
Back to the topic...BP needs to seriously reevaluate his recruiting methodology and program. I think he's recruiting the wrong players regularly and each year we lack balance with the team on the floor or with the recruiting class.

Has there been any news recently on the UT contract with adidas? I hope we'll switch to something else. From a basketball point, is any other brand than Nike or adidas as influential (corrupt)?
 
#36
#36
Back to the topic...BP needs to seriously reevaluate his recruiting methodology and program. I think he's recruiting the wrong players regularly and each year we lack balance with the team on the floor or with the recruiting class.

Has there been any news recently on the UT contract with adidas? I hope we'll switch to something else. From a basketball point, is any other brand than Nike or adidas as influential (corrupt)?

I don't believe he lacks balance in recruiting. He has just failed to sign a top-level point guard. I'm not going to be like some and act like that I really never wanted Selby to come, but I think if we get the kid that was committed to Wisconsin (whose name escapes me), it might be more what this team needs.
 
#37
#37
That's exactly right. People who act like Lady Vols' or any other women's bball players for that matter are on par with decent to good male players are either stupid or have never played basketball in their life.

I agree - but I view women's sports relatively.

In other words, Steven Pearl is not a better basketball player than all of the current Lady Vols. He would beat them, but only because he was born a man. I would probably take most if not all of the LVs, but it's crazy to think that means I'm better. Relatively, we don't begin to compare to them.

Someone posted that he prefers men's basketball to women's basketball, b/c he gets to see something that he can't participate in. I prefer to watch the men too, but I still view the collegiate female athletes in a similar light as the men, b/c I wouldn't be able to play at that level if I were a girl.
 
#38
#38
I don't believe he lacks balance in recruiting. He has just failed to sign a top-level point guard. I'm not going to be like some and act like that I really never wanted Selby to come, but I think if we get the kid that was committed to Wisconsin (whose name escapes me), it might be more what this team needs.

Vander Blue.

I do think Pearl is a good recruiter and the only reason I do not think he is great is that we end up with guys like Jurick who do not seem to be fits at all for his system.

The Maccabiah team did beat Argentina and will have the opportunity to win a Gold medal. An amazing opportunity for Pearl to bond with his son. Thanks UKvols

Tiger high? Geez. Memphis fans are sensitive. I honestly would not hate Memphis fans at all if it was not for the lie game where the player was down and the refs apologized later but TN lost. That game hurt me deep in my soul. I usually liked watching their style of street ball. I did feel sad when I read Percy and envisioned this glorious green oasis in Memphis and then went to the park by the zoo and saw trash and crack pipes on the ground. Depressing.

Gentlemen, on the bright side...
Who can get you to the NBA has been the knock on Pearl used by all his rivals. Well if this team makes the Elite 8 and in the tourney run several Vols get lots of press and scouts get higher on them (as happened to Florida the year that Noah led the team to the NC) then we could have more than twice as many Vols in the NBA this time next year. That will do wonders for Pearls recruiting ability.
 
Last edited:
#41
#41
Admit it UFScott, you thought that was funny before you posted it, didn't you?

Now turn this post around into some totally unfunny, irrelevant comment.
 
#42
#42
I agree - but I view women's sports relatively.

In other words, Steven Pearl is not a better basketball player than all of the current Lady Vols. He would beat them, but only because he was born a man. I would probably take most if not all of the LVs, but it's crazy to think that means I'm better. Relatively, we don't begin to compare to them.

Someone posted that he prefers men's basketball to women's basketball, b/c he gets to see something that he can't participate in. I prefer to watch the men too, but I still view the collegiate female athletes in a similar light as the men, b/c I wouldn't be able to play at that level if I were a girl.

Good post, and you're right. I can understand why someone chooses not to follow women's basketball, but I don't see why anybody such as the OP feels the need to put down the Lady Vols in order to support the men's program, especially with statements like, "TN men's basketball has nothing to fear from the women's program," as if to say that the women's program is trying to keep the men's program in mediocrity for some reason. It's quite the opposite. Bruce and Pat want to see each other's program succeed, as do I.
 
#43
#43
Good post, and you're right. I can understand why someone chooses not to follow women's basketball, but I don't see why anybody such as the OP feels the need to put down the Lady Vols in order to support the men's program, especially with statements like, "TN men's basketball has nothing to fear from the women's program," as if to say that the women's program is trying to keep the men's program in mediocrity for some reason. It's quite the opposite. Bruce and Pat want to see each other's program succeed, as do I.

It sounds like we agree.

But, I think the OP was just responding to the belief held by some others that having such a successful Women's program hurts the Men's program. Saying the Men have nothing to fear was his reply.
 
#44
#44
It sounds like we agree.

But, I think the OP was just responding to the belief held by some others that having such a successful Women's program hurts the Men's program. Saying the Men have nothing to fear was his reply.

After UT, the second most successful women's program in the country is UConn, and their men's program has 2 national titles in 10 years, as well as last year's Final Four appearance. To me, the OP's argument just doesn't make much sense. JMO
 
#46
#46
That's exactly right. People who act like Lady Vols' or any other women's bball players for that matter are on par with decent to good male players are either stupid or have never played basketball in their life.

An above average high school basketball team would destroy a WNBA team. Wouldn't be close.
 
#47
#47
If I followed the WNBA I could give you at least 10 women that are easily better than him. I know crack heads better than him...

No, you couldn't. You couldn't name one. I was at UT in '98 when the LV's had holdsclaw/catchings and were really REALLY good. Like all LV squads, this squad practiced against a male practice team. Students (mostly kids from the dorms) would come down and try out for this team. Some kids got cut because they were too good. Some got cut because they were too bad. Basically the team was comprised of above average high school basketball players. For example, a good buddy of mine was on it one year. He was an above average player at his very small high school in TN. He was not a world beater. He was not good enough to play for a Div. 1-A team. In other words, he was not as good as Steven Pearl.

These practice teams soundly beat the LV's day-in and day-out. This is the whole reason they are selected -- to allow the LV's to play against a team that is better than them (but not so much better than them that they get just totally demoralized).

So, smart guy Joe Dupree, now that this has all been laid out for you -- and keeping in mind that this was the best team the LV's have ever had -- allow me to once again respectfully submit that there is not a single WNBA player better than Steven Pearl. And that this question is not a close one.

Next!
 
#48
#48
To reiterate, anyone arguing very hard that women can play with men is lost. I think CP3 (ut woman, not Paul) is the best female basketball player ever and I think she is a fantastic player. She would not have played on my HS basketball team, save blowouts. 6'4 folks that are slow and can't shoot don't really cut the mustard.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#49
#49
After UT, the second most successful women's program in the country is UConn, and their men's program has 2 national titles in 10 years, as well as last year's Final Four appearance. To me, the OP's argument just doesn't make much sense. JMO

Understood my point. Many many posters say that Bruce is at a disadvantage because of the success of Pat. Her name is on the court and she is who people think of often when they hear that UT basketball demolished someone. The perception that he would always be in her shadow was false.

Also schools like Ohio State, Texas and even Florida have shown that great basketball can coexist very well and even reinforce and be reinforced by (especially during recruiting) a great football team. So Bruce Pearl can be happy to be in a great overall program.

The poster who tried to argue that I was wrong about attendance and money disappeared. I actually have been to some Lady Vol games where the announced attendance would have been wrong even if the counted every female mullet as another person.
 

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