Seriously, Is Being too Good Really So Bad?

#27
#27
If making it to the E8 is UT's goal, then the program is meeting expectations. But if the goal is to reach the F4 and compete for championships-- and the AD, HC and players have all said that's the goal-- then the program has failed to meet expectations for eight years. So the LVs either need to re-evaluate program goals... or make the changes necessary to achieve them. If the LVs can't get to the F4 with 7 McD's AAs and a deep bench, it's going to be even harder to get there with less talent and a shorter bench-- which is what they're going to have next year.
 
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#28
#28
Still not U-CONN fought, it's time to bring in some top notch coaching to the game, you got Geno and then a bunch of YMCA coaches, we need more male's coaches in the women's game simple as that some won't not to hear this but the truth is the truth, it' simple most male coaches are better than female coaches, just like playing the game, male player's are better it's just that simple nothing against female coaches, all you got to do is look at U-CONN, Gino will practice his player's harder than our's play in a game , the players get a break when they play a game, before i get bashed stop and think, i believe i am right, now Pat could have coach a men's team but she is the only woman i think that would have had a chance and then she might not have had the respect of the men's team to get the most out of them.
 
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#29
#29
Well credit to Geno Muffet, Tara, Scott Rueck and other coaches who develop their talent well.... the comment was made that Geno always has top flite guards..... but he certainly developed tham to be that..... Moriah Jefferson was too speedy and out of control in her first year.... she also did not shoot at all.... but her outside shot was developed..... same with McBride and Achonwa.... they were developed by Muffet and Ivey so well....

and the whole thing about shooting.... the big part of it is knowing when and which shot to take.... that automatically will bring the percentages up.
 
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#30
#30
terrypedigo said:
Still not U-CONN fought, it's time to bring in some top notch coaching to the game, you got Geno and then a bunch of YMCA coaches, we need more male's coaches in the women's game simple as that some won't not to hear this but the truth is the truth, it' simple most male coaches are better than female coaches, just like playing the game, male player's are better it's just that simple nothing against female coaches, all you got to do is look at U-CONN, Gino will practice his player's harder than our's play in a game , the players get a break when they play a game, before i get bashed stop and think, i believe i am right, now Pat could have coach a men's team but she is the only woman i think that would have had a chance and then she might not have had the respect of the men's team to get the most out of them.
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I agree with the principle of your post. A male coach has a distinct advantage over a female coach when coaching females. A male coach can be tough even brutal where a female coach cannot due to natural differences in temperament. CPS was the closest to this kind of male toughness. This is why Geno was able to make an All-American out of Tina Charles. The only other female coach that could have done this is CPS. BTW, all four Final Four coaches are male.
 
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#31
#31
uconn 's only claim to fame is women's BB . :birgits_giggle: Every now and then the men have a big season.
 
#32
#32
orangeluvr said:
uconn 's only claim to fame is women's BB . :birgits_giggle: Every now and then the men have a big season.
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Actually, the uconn men's team has won 4 national championships since 1999. I think that's more than anyone else during the same time period.
 
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#33
#33
orangeluvr said:
uconn 's only claim to fame is women's BB . :birgits_giggle: Every now and then the men have a big season.
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OK I'll bite -

Tennessee National Championships - 21 depending on who's counting football championships.

UConn National Championships - 20

I'll be the 1st to admit UConn football stinks.
 
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#35
#35
BowlBrother85 said:
Name one men's coach that has been fired after making 3 out of 4 elite 8 appearances.
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Be real what male coach of a D1 top basketball program with zero recruits and failure to reach the final 4 with the talent we have would retain their job. Holly may be a nice person but she is a bad coach that has a tough time coaching quality talent. Name me some top 5 programs she has beat on the way to making 3 out of 4 elite 8 appearance. Every time she goes against top, or near top talent, she folds like a tent Ina 100 mph wind storm. You are talking about Apple and oranges trying to match what Holly has done compared to the talent a male coach has to go through to match what Holly has done. Wake up she is not even a top ten women's coach.
 
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#36
#36
99gator said:
1. Too many people live under some sort of false reality that anyone gives a damn about women's basketball to begin with. They don't.


3. The reality is that everyone is embarrassed because UConn reveals just how bad they suck at what they do in comparison. No one likes to be embarrassed. How come no one at this point has learned anything from UConn? I tried to look it up and think only 4 former UConn players/assistant coaches under Geno are current head coaches. Don't know if that is completely accurate. There isn't a league anywhere that the competition doesn't figure out what winning teams are doing and incorporate it into their own team.

4. In line with #1, since most people don't care, neither do most schools. Therefore, the effort to compete isn't a burning desire for most of the competition out there. How much of a priority is a championship women's basketball program at Alabama? Florida? Kansas? Arizona? Ohio State? Michigan? Etc.?
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I have never quite understood those who proclaim that no one cares about women's basketball on a message board devoted to a women b-ball team.

But the fractured logic being expressed does not stop there.

1.If you care about the sport, you are living in a false reality because no one cares about the sport: "taut" meet "ology"

Moving on...

2. No one cares about the sport but everyone is embarrassed by Uconn's dominance and no one likes to be embarrassed but since no one cares about the sport, no one is trying to compete. Alrighty then, that explains it for sure.

But the issue raised in the OP reflect that the media likes to generate controversy. Uconn's dominance has taken some of the suspense out the tournament, since the general consensus is that they are close to being invincible. And voila, ESPN and company amplify some tweets to create a debate over whether Uconn is bad for the game. It is something to talk about.
 
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#37
#37
madtownvol said:
I have never quite understood those who proclaim that no one cares about women's basketball on a message board devoted to a women b-ball team.

But the fractured logic being expressed does not stop there.

1.If you care about the sport, you are living in a false reality because no one cares about the sport: "taut" meet "ology"

Moving on...

2. No one cares about the sport but everyone is embarrassed by Uconn's dominance and no one likes to be embarrassed but since no one cares about the sport, no one is trying to compete. Alrighty then, that explains it for sure.

But the issue raised in the OP reflect that the media likes to generate controversy. Uconn's dominance has taken some of the suspense out the tournament, since the general consensus is that they are close to being invincible. And voila, ESPN and company amplify some tweets to create a debate over whether Uconn is bad for the game. It is something to talk about.
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Coaches and university AD's both have to be committed to the ideology of breaking UCONN's perceived invincibility. Teams must figure out what makes UCONN so good. A lot of teams have as many 5 stars as UCONN, coaches must figure out what makes them play at the level they play at. If it is the coaching, why is it impossible to study Genno's coaching style and replicate the same success? Right now UCONN has created a gap that teams seem to have a difficult time closing. Genno was hell bent on replicating Pat's success and beyond, is it impossible or are coaches making it impossible to knock Genno from the top of the food chain? Part of UCONN's success is based upon the same thing that made the Tennessee LVs successful, they get in your head. No matter how talented you are, if you allow a team to get into your head, your team defeats itself.
 
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#38
#38
Well, for one thing UConn will not be so invincible next year I think..... just by the nature of losing 3 key seniors and All Americans..

I think UConn's success has been, from what I can see, in that they play hard all the time... every possession.... and do not let up.... they play against themselves, if necessary, as a standard.... and this is where I think other coaches are having a hard time replicating their success.... they simply do not demand as much as UConn coaches demand. JMO Many have been invited to sit in on practice.... but still they cannot replicate what UConn does at their institutions....

How well will they do next year... I do not know.... i do not think they will be undefeated though
 
#39
#39
Benionsopinion said:
Maybe you could explain how the truth casts a bad shadow over anything,especially the Lady Vols. Probably it could be said that it's done,don't beat a dead horse. That at least would make some sense.
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It's the self-righteousness of a small group of LV fans. They ignore the facts.

Tenn committed an equally minor violation recruiting Russell when they gifted her a personal album commemorating her official trip. Back in 2000 Pat and an assistant committed a minor violation when they arranged for free admissions for recruits and their families to the Knoxville HOF.

All these things were self-reported secondary violations. A lot of nothing when compared to what goes on in the men's game. And hardly reason enough to call either school cheaters.

Yeah, someone in the UConn athletic office arranged a tour of ESPN for the Moores. But it was no more egregous than several violations by the LV program but a small group of their fans, abetted by a certain moderator of a LV forum, see only the ESPN tour and are blind to the excesses committed by their own program.
 
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#40
#40
Tiger woods was dominant and winning every major tournament and all he did was make the other golfers have to get better ! Same at Connecticut other tams like tennessee, Stanford, notre dame have to coach and recruit better to compete! I have been a lady vol fan for many years and you should admire and respect their excellence and achievements. ! It's not connecticuts fault that tennessee lost the ambassador of womens basketball and then turned this storied program over to a lame duck coach who has run the program off into the ditch. ! Ric flair used to say to be the man you have to beat the man! So quit whining and beat them or shut up and take your medicine!
 
#41
#41
gee no stinks,

did you see the little fellar crying on the tee vee, yesterday? REAL MEN don't CRY!
 
#44
#44
cwbytruckers said:
I just don't get where so many people thinks this team is so talented.
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The team is clearly not talented. Yet there exists a lot of talent on the team in the form of MickD AA 's on the roster though.

It is the job of WCBB coaches to develop the talent. Had this team been developed on all fronts they could have been a FF contender.

This team got as far as it got un underdeveloped talent. That is a tribute to the talent potential.
 
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#45
#45
linkster said:
It's the self-righteousness of a small group of LV fans. They ignore the facts.

Tenn committed an equally minor violation recruiting Russell when they gifted her a personal album commemorating her official trip. Back in 2000 Pat and an assistant committed a minor violation when they arranged for free admissions for recruits and their families to the Knoxville HOF.

All these things were self-reported secondary violations. A lot of nothing when compared to what goes on in the men's game. And hardly reason enough to call either school cheaters.

Yeah, someone in the UConn athletic office arranged a tour of ESPN for the Moores. But it was no more egregous than several violations by the LV program but a small group of their fans, abetted by a certain moderator of a LV forum, see only the ESPN tour and are blind to the excesses committed by their own program.
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Your point is also what drives my underlying point of the "shadow" comment

No one knows that Geno arranged the ESPN tour personally or that it was done harmlessly just as no one knows that Pat did as you pointed up in the gift to Russell.

Yet, it seems that only a few Lady Vol fans engage in personal name calling of Geno. I see no other team fans posting negative terms in that way. I think those few who do denigrate the whole fan base. But free speech exists if for no other reason than to let those with biases identify themselves
 
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#46
#46
cwbytruckers said:
I just don't get where so many people thinks this team is so talented.
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Maybe because they were able to beat some very talented teams, including two that are in the FF. That's not a fluke. However, they also lost, often because of late-game letdowns to some really mediocre teams, and that's not a fluke either. Judging the LVs solely on either extreme would extreme would be a mistake.

One of the reasons for UConn's recent success is also the flexibility and versatility of the lineup, so the team can throw a lot of very different weapons at an opponent. A team like ND tends to be much less able to stretch itself in different areas because their players tend to be cut much more from the same cloth.
 
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#48
#48
PointGuard said:
PS... with the Vol's talent it could of and should have been the Vols not SU playing for the NC Monday night.
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+++++++++++++

This is without debate, PG. I agree with most of what you have posted in this thread ...The LV's had the path, had the horses and were riding without need or use of a whip... Where they fell is, when they needed to use the whip, they didn't have one.
 
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#49
#49
PointGuard said:
I think it is unfortunate that a few fans have to cast a bad shadow over the Lady Vols with "he cheated for Maya" type comments.
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For those who believe this was an incidence of cheating that was consequential, please ask yourself this question: Do you truly believe that had the office secretary not made the call to ESPN and instead handed the phone to Maya to make the call herself, Moore would have decided that no, UConn's not the place for me?
 
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#50
#50
madtownvol said:
I have never quite understood those who proclaim that no one cares about women's basketball on a message board devoted to a women b-ball team.

But the fractured logic being expressed does not stop there.

1.If you care about the sport, you are living in a false reality because no one cares about the sport: "taut" meet "ology"

Moving on...

2. No one cares about the sport but everyone is embarrassed by Uconn's dominance and no one likes to be embarrassed but since no one cares about the sport, no one is trying to compete. Alrighty then, that explains it for sure.

But the issue raised in the OP reflect that the media likes to generate controversy. Uconn's dominance has taken some of the suspense out the tournament, since the general consensus is that they are close to being invincible. And voila, ESPN and company amplify some tweets to create a debate over whether Uconn is bad for the game. It is something to talk about.
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I'm sorry, but it's the elephant in the room no one wants to discuss.

"Not caring" is the biggest reason for this kind of dominance. That and Pat Summit leaving the game.

Look at college softball. A sport dominated by the Pac 10. Alabama, Florida and Tennessee put out good teams 10 years ago, but that was about it. Michigan has always been good. Then, the other schools in the SEC decided to give a damn. Now, the SEC is the power conference in college softball. The Pac 10 has been left in the dust. It happened that fast.

It's not a coincidence that women's basketball is a sport where a school in a state where 10 people live (none of whom are athletes) can all of a sudden dominate a sport. Connecticut is a pitiful athletic program. Jim Calhoun built a basketball program. I don't know how he did it, but he did it. Along came Geno and we know the rest there. They are not nationally relevant in anything else they do.

Do you really believe if the power schools that dominate the landscape in so many other athletic endeavors put their love and money into it that they couldn't put teams out there that could compete with UConn. I think they could.

But, schools like Ohio State don't care. Not really. They make the tournament every year. Sometimes, they win the Big 10. No big deal. Put them on the 50 yard line during the homecoming football game and congratulate them for winning the Big 10 so they get a golf clap from the capacity crowd. This is a program that would be described, by the way, as a quality women's basketball program. But, there isn't an "arms race" to beat Connecticut. There aren't programs across the country who are tired of this and by God, we're going to put an end to it if it's the last thing we do. That's not happening.

That's one of the things I admire about this board. Tennessee, and their fans, do care. At least a decent percentage of them. They want to get back to where they were. They want to keep Geno from obtaining greater glory than Pat. etc, etc, etc. Tennessee fans care.

And before someone mentions it, yes, it was one of the reasons that John Wooden and UCLA accomplished what they did. There were a lot of athletic programs that didn't care about men's basketball at the time. Several schools had their football coach also as their athletic director. It was a totally different era. Beyond that, no shot clock, no 3 point shot, and other rules aided UCLA's run. But, among the top reasons was that there were a hell of a lot less schools trying to compete for championships. They beat the Jacksonville University Dolphins for the NCAA championship one season for crying out loud.

It is THE reason Kentucky has dominated SEC basketball. They cared. The other teams in the league didn't. They won 37 of the first 57 SEC basketball championships. They have won 11 of the last 28. Other schools actually trying to compete and win has mattered.
 
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