Should Americans be Allowed to Buy and Sell Human Organs

Should Americans Be Allowed to Buy and Sell Human Organs (Public)

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#26
#26
When you bring "pragmatism" or "saving lives" or "public interest" or "greater good" in then you are moving away from pure personal freedom to restrictions to achieve some larger societal purpose. Once you start down that path you can't cherry pick the personal freedom card on some issues but not on others while using a societal purpose as the underlying rationale.
 
#27
#27
Every one of you will change your tune if you end up on a wait list, btw. Unless you know powerful people. Then you can get a bump.
 
#29
#29
I am more interested in the government legalizing marijuana than selling organs. With marijuana, huge revenues would be realized
 
#30
#30
volinbham said:
When you bring "pragmatism" or "saving lives" or "public interest" or "greater good" in then you are moving away from pure personal freedom to restrictions to achieve some larger societal purpose. Once you start down that path you can't cherry pick the personal freedom card on some issues but not on others.
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If I can't accomplish 100% total freedom, I'm not supposed to make concessions? I disagree. Partial freedom is better than no freedom.
 
#32
#32
I think a better option would be to make organ donation default, unless you otherwise opt out.
 
#34
#34
nbakerld said:
If I can't accomplish 100% total freedom, I'm not supposed to make concessions? I disagree. Partial freedom is better than no freedom.
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When you defend it as a "greater good" argument you open up the inclusion of the ethical and other problems issue to the debate. Using that metric I see way more greater good problems than solutions with this approach.
 
#36
#36
golfballs03 said:
I think a better option would be to make organ donation default, unless you otherwise opt out.
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See, I would think a personal freedom argument would be staunchly against this since the default is you have to surrender personal property unless you opt out.
 
#38
#38
golfballs03 said:
But people are free to choose.
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I agree on the surface but think an "opt in" is more in line with personal freedom than an opt out.

Look at the crap Perry is catching for the HPV vaccination - it had an opt out but is still considered massive government over-reach.
 
#39
#39
my left kidney is for sale on craigslist, I'm asking for the paltry sum of $1 million plus surgical expenses and a paid 3-month vacation in the Swiss Alps.
 
#40
#40
I don't have an organ for sale, but ladies can rent it for the right price. heyoooo
 
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#41
#41
MG1968 said:
my left kidney is for sale on craigslist, I'm asking for the paltry sum of $1 million plus surgical expenses and a paid 3-month vacation in the Swiss Alps.
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Well now you're just helping the rich! Unfair!
 
#42
#42
volinbham said:
When you defend it as a "greater good" argument you open up the inclusion of the ethical and other problems issue to the debate. Using that metric I see way more greater good problems than solutions with this approach.
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Well that's insane to me. What exactly are the problems? Here are some benefits:

Increase choice and freedom
Save those dying on organ waiting lists
Poor people who harvest their dead loved one's organs can now afford a proper funeral, etc.

As it stands, organ donation is a highly regulated industry. Why does regulation increase if donors get paid? That doesn't make sense. Doctors get paid. Nurses get paid. Insurance companies get paid. The recipient gets a benefit. Why does everybody get paid while the most crucial individual in the equation does not benefit?
 
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#44
#44
nbakerld said:
Well that's insane to me. What exactly are the problems? Here are some benefits:

Increase choice and freedom
Save those dying on organ waiting lists
Poor people who harvest their dead loved one's organs can now afford a proper funeral, etc.

As it stands, organ donation is a highly regulated industry. Why does regulation increase if donors get paid? That doesn't make sense. Doctors get paid. Nurses get paid. Insurance companies get paid. The recipient gets a benefit. Why does everybody get paid while the most crucial individual in the equation does not benefit?
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We switch from need to $ resources as method of selection.

We encourage people surrendering organs for $ when such an action may create medical hardships (and associated costs) for donors.

We encourage dumb, dangerous behavior like the kid selling a kidney for an iPad and yes that's more severe than buyer's remorse

We encourage a black market and unauthorized harvesting of organs

We encourage any number of imaginable fraud activities

Just of the top of my head I came up with these. I'm sure there are many more problems.
 
#47
#47
MG1968 said:
it's my kidney, I'll sell it to the highest bidder
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That's the thing...you're not getting anybody to bid very high, unless it's an extremely rare match. That's what competition does. You might get a million for a rare kidney on the black market, but nowhere near that in a competitive market.
 
#48
#48
volinbham said:
(1)We switch from need to $ resources as method of selection.

We encourage people surrendering organs for $ when such an action may create medical hardships (and associated costs) for donors.

(2)We encourage dumb, dangerous behavior like the kid selling a kidney for an iPad and yes that's more severe than buyer's remorse

(3)We encourage a black market and unauthorized harvesting of organs

(4)We encourage any number of imaginable fraud activities

Just of the top of my head I came up with these. I'm sure there are many more problems.
Click to expand...

(1) SFW? A lot of people don't get kidneys when it's based on need. Under a system where organs can be purchased, everyone can get an organ and almost everybody will. Talk about fulfilling needs.

(2) Apparently banning the sale of kidneys does not stop people from trading them for IPads. Obviously if you can sell a kidney it would not be available for minors to do without parental consent (if they're allowed at all). This would actually ensure that kids aren't selling their kidneys to some random stranger for an Ipad.

(3) Are you serious? We're encouraging a black market by banning it. The best way to defeat the black market is to legalize the black market offering. What happened to the black market for booze once prohibition ended?

(4) I don't understand this argument in the least. If a product opens potential for fraud, we should consider banning it? Wouldn't we be encouraging more criminal activity through a black market than we would through a free market that is susceptible to fraud? Let's ban credit cards, the trade of stocks, etc. because of fraud potential. If we're going to ban a life-saving measure because of potential fraud, we definitely don't need to be trading stocks and bonds.
 
#49
#49
BTW, one benefit I forgot to mention is that while legalization will destroy the black market, all those people who sell their kidneys are going to get a lot better care in a hospital than they are going to get in someone's bathtub full of ice.

So it takes care of that horrible aspect of the black market.
 
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