Should Obama have apologized for the burning of korans in Afghanistan?

[n_huffhines]

If a Muslim nation came in to occupy America and during the course of their military campaign, they killed a bunch of civilians and then burned some Bibles, but the President, Prime Minister, King of that country didn't acknowledge the Bible burning, whether an accident or not, I'm sure gs and some of the rest of you would go apepoop. But I guess because of our American Exceptionalism, our leader isn't held to the same standard, unless he's a Republican, which then it would be ok. If a Democrat acts like a decent human being and apologizes on behalf of our country for offending the religion and sensibilities of almost everyone in a country, then he made the right decision. I think some of you just pick at every little thing he does for whatever your reasons are for doing that and complain loudly, like the people shouting him down, carrying weapons to his rallies, yelling "you lie" in the Congress, and shoving finger in his face on the tarmac.

Agreed on everything but the tarmac. That was on Barry. Don't know anything about weapons at a rally.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

Agreed on everything but the tarmac. That was on Barry. Don't know anything about weapons at a rally.

I looked and looked but only found the Youtube video of the Erkel-looking dude carrying an AR-15, who may or may not have been a plant by a left wing radical group. There was a white (power?) guy at one of the rallies, who was carrying a gun and got accosted by a reporter and was really, really strikingly arrogant about having his gun. It was frightening. Too much of guns and Presidents history in America to be allowing whackos to carry guns that close, imo.

AR15 Open Carry Patriot Answers Lady's Questions - YouTube

Ya know, why do you have to be a Ron Paul guy and be so damn reasonable? You're one of about, well, one in the politics forum who makes me question some stuff about my bleeding-heart, liberal ideology.

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

while I don't necessarily agree with the apology it was probably one that needed to be made (and it's his job). We have troops in harm's way and this is a hot-button issue to the citizens of that country. No need to make their job harder or more dangerous is an apology would do the trick

So, it sounds like you're saying, iyo, that one of the mitigating factors that influenced the decision by the President to issue the apology was the safety of our troops on the ground, like several who post here. Not supporting our troops is very un-American, imo.

 

[volsforever27]

So, it sounds like you're saying, iyo, that one of the mitigating factors that influenced the decision by the President to issue the apology was the safety of our troops on the ground, like several who post here. Not supporting our troops is very un-American, imo.

No one is paying attention to anything you say due to your avy. You know this.

 

[NEO]

So, it sounds like you're saying, iyo, that one of the mitigating factors that influenced the decision by the President to issue the apology was the safety of our troops on the ground, like several who post here. Not supporting our troops is very un-American, imo.

un american or not it's stupid for our troops to even be there and the premise of nation building is dumb.

soldiers should be trained for one thing and one thing only, to kill. once they have killed everything that needed to be killed they need to come home.

not their job to stick around and play mommy for a bunch of morons who have had thousands of years to get their chit together and still cant.

 

[utvolpj]

"they need to come home"

wouldn't a better plan be to not send them at all?

 

[NEO]

"they need to come home"

wouldn't a better plan be to not send them at all?

I fall under leave us alone and our trade routes etc and we leave you alone.

Bother us and we do stealth bombers in the night until you're a gravel pit.


I see no reason with todays weaponry to ever invade a country with using human soldiers.

 

[n_huffhines]

I looked and looked but only found the Youtube video of the Erkel-looking dude carrying an AR-15, who may or may not have been a plant by a left wing radical group. There was a white (power?) guy at one of the rallies, who was carrying a gun and got accosted by a reporter and was really, really strikingly arrogant about having his gun. It was frightening. Too much of guns and Presidents history in America to be allowing whackos to carry guns that close, imo.

AR15 Open Carry Patriot Answers Lady's Questions - YouTube

Ya know, why do you have to be a Ron Paul guy and be so damn reasonable? You're one of about, well, one in the politics forum who makes me question some stuff about my bleeding-heart, liberal ideology.

Most people here probably don't think I'm all that reasonable, LOL.

 

[gsvol]

while I don't necessarily agree with the apology it was probably one that needed to be made (and it's his job). We have troops in harm's way and this is a hot-button issue to the citizens of that country. No need to make their job harder or more dangerous is an apology would do the trick

Except the apology didn't do the trick, it did the opposite, it made us appear to be the obedient dogs that they claim Christian infidels to be in their daily prayers to their pagan god.

It is a common misconception that Allah is the same as the Biblical Jehovah/Yahweh. The name "Allah" was applied to a pagan Mid-Eastern tribal god long before Mohammed appeared on the scene.

The following is a great essay on the topic and well worth reading in full, I include brief excerpts.

Sultan Knish a blog by Daniel Greenfield

But if you want to be more practical about it, the price of a Koran is the lives of six American soldiers.

That butcher's bill doesn't count the soldiers who burned the Korans, who despite following procedure will be penalized on orders of the White House which thinks that punishing American soldiers will somehow satisfy the Koran fueled bloodlust of men who aren't satisfied with their corpses.

The nature of the marketplace of human affairs is that a thing is worth what we will pay for it. Once upon a time Americans decided to pay any price for freedom. The price was high, but they got what they paid for... at least for a season or two. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were works of freedom written in blood. They made a free nation possible because that nation was willing to pay the price for them.

Muslims are equally willing to pay the price in blood for slavery, their own slavery and ours, for a book of slavery, written by an owner and abuser of slaves, who created a religion of slaves, where the optimal position was to stand on as many people as possible while reaching for heaven.

The men who fought to make us free placed value on their lives. The men who fight to enslave us place little value on their own. Whatever material pleasures they enjoy in this life, little girls, hashish and wealth, will be vastly improved upon in the afterlife. And they buy their way into that afterlife by killing us, as they have been doing for over a thousand years.

Each of their murders imposes their religion on us. They impose their notion of what is important and what isn't important. Twenty years ago no one would have cared a fig for a burned Koran or a cartoon of Mo. Today either one earns you an accusation of endangering the lives of American soldiers and inciting violence. Dress up as Zombie Mohammed and Judge Mark Martin will tell you that in a Muslim country you would get the death penalty. That's not the way it works here. Yet.

What's the price of a Koran? Whatever Muslims see fit to charge us for it and whatever our leaders are willing to pay. Not just in lives or ranks of men who were risking their lives in the way that B. Hussein could not even begin to imagine, but in the big picture appeasement.
---------------------------------------

This hasn't stopped us from trying to meet the blood price anyway, instead of imposing our own. The blood of free men goes on dripping into the sewers of Kabul or Baghdad and a hundred other places and the Jihad hums along. Slowly and deliberately we learn to censor ourselves, adopting the habits of the Dhimmi, kowtowing to our masters, praising their learning, their wisdom and above all their mercy. If they have gone a day without killing us, does it not show what a peaceful people they are?

Without going through the formalities of reciting the Shahada or donning the Burqa, we are becoming slaves. Our leaders have sold our rights to pay the blood price, our cultural elites are eagerly teaching us the habits and mindset of slavery. To always obey, to never question and to know that our Muslim masters are always right. If they kill us, then we have done something to deserve it. If they fly planes into our buildings, it is time for some soul searching. If they go mad and kill, that is an expression of the pain and suffering that we have made them feel.

We apologize not because we have done anything wrong, but because they are angry. And every time they are angry, we know that we have done something wrong. Like dogs, our leaders develop the moral reflex of a newspaper across the nose, accepting that they are guilty when Muslims carry out violence. The worse the violence, the more they apologize.

What is the price of a Koran? It's any price that we are willing to pay.
-----------------------------------

Between the primitive feudalism of the Muslim world and the postmodern feudalism of Western socialism is a consensus that human freedom is secondary to the rule of the enlightened and the purity of the ideology that serves as the wellspring of their power. The Mullah and the Eurocrat are both seeking a perfect world which is only perfect because the rulers have all the power and the ruled have none.
-------------------------------------

It works both ways. We are just as capable of setting the price of our freedom above that of a Koran. All we have to do as a nation is say it and mean it. All we have to do is replace the price of a Koran with the price of freedom. The men who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to the cause of freedom would have done it. Instead our leaders have pledged our lives and fortunes to the cause of Muslim freedom from regimes that inhibited them from making the Koran into the 100 percent law of the land, instead of only the 60 or 70 percent law of the land.
---------------------------------

A hundred years ago our leaders would have held them to that price. Today we try to buy our way out and sue for peace by way of apologies and appeasement. This doesn't meet the price, it only inflates it as the laws of supply and demand tend to do. The more we are willing to pay for a Koran, the more its worshipers will charge us for it, with no upward limit.
-------------------------

The more we feed their honor with appeasement, the more their honor grows until they fancy themselves kings and caliphs of the world. And when they demand that, our leaders bomb anyone in their way, roll out the red carpet for Muslim democracy and cheer the new Caliphate. And still the blood price isn't met.
---------------------------------------

Unlike the Koran, our freedom is priceless because it is beyond price. The lives of our sons and daughters are equally priceless. And if we allow them to be sold for the price of a Koran, then it is we who have forsaken our sacred honor.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
- Manuel II Palelologus

"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."

King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

Amazing! I think you just ruined your own thread.

tl,dr

 

[possumslayer]

I fall under leave us alone and our trade routes etc and we leave you alone.

Bother us and we do stealth bombers in the night until you're a gravel pit.


I see no reason with todays weaponry to ever invade a country with using human soldiers.

+1
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[possumslayer]

Also if having a deep hatred of all the followers of Islam makes me a racist ,then I'm a racist !
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[The Ron Mexico]

I fall under leave us alone and our trade routes etc and we leave you alone.

Bother us and we do stealth bombers in the night until you're a gravel pit.


I see no reason with todays weaponry to ever invade a country with using human soldiers.

I came here to say this. And also, if we're looking for apologies, plenty of Heads of State owe us (Americans) several apologies.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

Except the apology didn't do the trick, it did the opposite, it made us appear to be the obedient dogs that they claim Christian infidels to be in their daily prayers to their pagan god.

It is a common misconception that Allah is the same as the Biblical Jehovah/Yahweh. The name "Allah" was applied to a pagan Mid-Eastern tribal god long before Mohammed appeared on the scene.

The following is a great essay on the topic and well worth reading in full, I include brief excerpts.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
- Manuel II Palelologus

"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."

King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993

I agree with the original premise of your post. But then you went way over the top with false quotes. Like always. You present some decent arguments, but I can't justify backing them up with falsehoods.

 

[volinbham]

The UN reaction is sad and predictable. They expressed no outrage at Afghanistan for killing our people but are calling for punishment for the US for the accidental burning saying an apology is not sufficient.

Up is down, black is white.

 

[gsvol]

Amazing! I think you just ruined your own thread.

tl,dr

How so?

March 6, 2012 “U.S. State Department Actively Promoting Islam in Europe” by Soeren Kern | newstime.co.nz

The United States ambassador to Spain recently met with a group of Muslim immigrants in one of the most Islamized neighborhoods of Barcelona to apologize for American foreign policymaking in the Middle East.
-----------------------------

The Barcelona meeting, which was held in a Muslim ghetto called Raval (a.k.a. Ravalistan because Muslim immigrants now make up 45% of the barrio’s total population), is an example of the Obama administration’s so-called Muslim Outreach.

The U.S. State Department — working through American embassies and consulates in Europe — has been stepping-up its efforts to establish direct contacts with largely unassimilated Muslim immigrant communities in towns and cities across Europe.
-----------------------------

A key component of the strategy is to “empower” Muslims who can help build a “counter-narrative” to that of terrorists. In practice, however, Obama ideologues are crisscrossing Europe on U.S. taxpayer funded trips to “export” failed American approaches to multiculturalism, affirmative action, cultural diversity and special rights for minorities.

Further, American diplomats are repeatedly apologizing to Muslims in Europe for a multitude of real or imagined slights against Islam, and the U.S. State Department is now spending millions of dollars each year actively promoting Islam — including Islamic Sharia law — on the continent.

In Ireland, for example, the U.S. Embassy in Dublin recently sponsored a seminar ostensibly designed to help Muslim immigrants increase their influence within the Irish business and financial communities.

The opening speech at the event was delivered by Imam Hussein Halawa of the Islamic Cultural Center of Ireland, despite the fact that leaked U.S. State Department cables show that the U.S. government has known for many years that Halawi is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and serves as the right-hand man of the radical Egyptian cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

Halawa, an Egyptian immigrant who has dedicated his life to the cause of introducing Islamic Sharia law in Europe, told those in attendance that the main purpose of the conference was to bring the Irish banking system into conformity with Islamic legal principles. U.S. Ambassador Dan Rooney, a lifelong Republican turned Obama acolyte, said at the same conference that the United States was a “solid partner” behind Halawa’s venture.

In Austria, the U.S. Embassy in Vienna sponsored a film contest in February on the theme of “Diversity and Tolerance” aimed at teaching wayward Austrians that they should show respect for Muslim immigrants who refuse to integrate into their society.
--------------------------------

In Belgium, U.S. Ambassador Howard Gutman, another Obama fundraiser turned diplomat, told lawyers attending a conference in Brussels in November 2011 that Israel is to blame for Muslim anti-Semitism in Europe.
-----------------------------

In France, the U.S. Embassy in Paris co-sponsored a seminar to teach Muslims in France how they can politically organize themselves. Operatives from the Democratic Party coached 70 Muslim “diversity leaders” from disaffected Muslim-majority suburban slums known as banlieues on how to develop a communications strategy, raise funds and build a political base.

The French government — which has been trying to reverse the pernicious effects of decades of state-sponsored multiculturalism — expressed dismay at what it called “meddling.”
----------------------------

In Norway, where Muslim immigrants already have more rights than native Norwegians, the U.S. Embassy in Oslo organized a “dialogue meeting” designed to “empower” Muslim immigrant women in the country.
------------------------------------

In Britain, U.S. embassy employees in London frequently conduct outreach to help “empower” the Muslims across the country. According to a leaked U.S. diplomatic cable, for example, Ambassador Louis Susman “engages with U.K. Muslim communities regularly…he has spoken to Muslim groups in Wales and Scotland, visited the London Central Mosque, and hosted an interfaith breakfast at his residence, among other activities.”

Susman has come under fire for visiting another London mosque, namely the East London Mosque, which is one of the most extreme Islamic institutions in Britain. Built with money from Saudi Arabia to propagate Wahhabi Islam, the sprawling facility is home to the London Muslim Center, which the U.S. government has long known is a haven for Islamic extremists. During his visit, Susman spoke of his “great admiration” for the mosque and his enthusiasm for meeting its staff.

volinbham
The UN reaction is sad and predictable. They expressed no outrage at Afghanistan for killing our people but are calling for punishment for the US for the accidental burning saying an apology is not sufficient.

Up is down, black is white.

"In times of universal deceipt, it is a revolutionary act to tell the truth."
Orwell

We just need more sensitvity training so we can lie better.

Sharia in the US Military: Latest Islamic Training Guide for Military and Contractors - Atlas Shrugs

The Ron Mexico
I agree with the original premise of your post. But then you went way over the top with false quotes. Like always. You present some decent arguments, but I can't justify backing them up with falsehoods.

What quote specifically do you say is false?
Are are the truth.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-- Winston Churchill



Proper disposal of korans:

Again, instead of in effect calling me a liar, tell me which of the quotes do you calim to be false and I will prove it as a factual quote.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
-- Winston Churchill


"The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives."
-- Winston Churchill

We are now choosing the worst alternative, how long will that last?

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

How so?

March 6, 2012 “U.S. State Department Actively Promoting Islam in Europe” by Soeren Kern | newstime.co.nz

"In times of universal deceipt, it is a revolutionary act to tell the truth."
Orwell

We just need more sensitvity training so we can lie better.

Sharia in the US Military: Latest Islamic Training Guide for Military and Contractors - Atlas Shrugs

What quote specifically do you say is false?
Are are the truth.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-- Winston Churchill



Proper disposal of korans:

Again, instead of in effect calling me a liar, tell me which of the quotes do you calim to be false and I will prove it as a factual quote.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
-- Winston Churchill


"The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives."
-- Winston Churchill

We are now choosing the worst alternative, how long will that last?

Probably a dumb question, but do you consider yourself a Christian?

 

[Orangeslice13]

I do. and please do not quote him. it takes forever to load as is.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

I do. and please do not quote him. it takes forever to load as is.

I know you do. But you also don't spew hypocritical intolerance towards everything not Christian.

 

[gsvol]

I know you do. But you also don't spew hypocritical intolerance towards everything not Christian.

What is hypocritical about pointing out the downsides of islam?

Your replies imply that you aren't up on current events and are totally ignorant of history as it concerns islam.

Probably a dumb question, but do you consider yourself a Christian?

Do you?

 

[gsvol]

I agree with the original premise of your post. But then you went way over the top with false quotes. Like always. You present some decent arguments, but I can't justify backing them up with falsehoods.

Again I ask, please point out the falsehoood please.

Orangeslice, fwiw, your pics don't show up for me, I traced one back to it's source and it didn't make any sense to me so I havn't looked at any of the rest. Do you have any other way of posting your pics?

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

What is hypocritical about pointing out the downsides of islam?

Your replies imply that you aren't up on current events and are totally ignorant of history as it concerns islam.






Do you?

I do not.

 

[gsvol]

I do not.

That was a rhetorical question, everyone knew the answer.

Suggested reading material for you:

The book is out now and is for all non-muslims, no matter what you believe.

Political Islam // Articles // Sharia Law for Non-Muslims Chapter 1 May 20, 2010

This is a chapter from an upcoming book: Sharia Law for Non-Muslims. The book was designed to be short, only 48 pages. Many people do not want to know anything about Islam, but experience shows that they may have an interest in Islamic law. Since it doesn't make any difference which part of a rope you pick up first, Sharia law is a great way to start learning about the true nature of Islam.

CHAPTER 1

Sharia in Europe Today

When you study Islam in Europe today, you are seeing America in 20 years. Why? The actions by Muslims in Europe are based on Sharia law, the same Sharia law that is beginning to be implemented in America today.
-----------------------------------------------------

Why Do We Need to Know Sharia?

ISLAMIC SCHOLARS CLAIM: Islamic law is perfect, universal and eternal. The laws of the United States are temporary, limited and will pass. It is the duty of every Muslim to obey the laws of Allah, the Sharia.

SHARIA: Sharia is based on the principles found in the Koran and other Islamic religious/political texts. There are no common principles between American law and Sharia.

Under Sharia law:


· There is no freedom of religion
· There is no freedom of speech
· There is no freedom of thought
· There is no freedom of artistic expression
· There is no freedom of the press
· There is no equality of peoples-a non-Muslim, a Kafir, is never equal to a Muslim
· There are no equal rights for women
· Women can be beaten
· A non-Muslim cannot bear arms
· There is no equal protection under Sharia for different classes of people. Justice is dualistic, with one set of laws for Muslim males and different laws for women and non-Muslims.
· Our Constitution is a man-made document of ignorance, jahiliyah, that must submit to Sharia
· There is no democracy, since that means that a non-Muslim is equal to a Muslim
· Non-Muslims are dhimmis, third-class citizens
· There is no Golden Rule
· There is no critical thought
· All governments must be ruled by Sharia law


Unlike common law, Sharia is not interpretive, nor can it be changed

THE SOLUTION
This book uses a fact-based approach to knowledge that uses analytic or critical thought. When you finish reading, you will know what Sharia law is. More importantly you will know why Sharia is what it is. You will understand how Sharia "works" and why it cannot change. For the first time, you will understand Islam. It will all make sense.

The Three Views of Islam

There are three points of view in dealing with Islam. The point of view depends upon how you feel about Mohammed. If you believe Mohammed is the prophet of Allah, then you are a believer. If you don't, you are a nonbeliever. The third viewpoint is that of an apologist for Islam. Apologists do not believe that Mohammed was a prophet, but they try to be tolerant without any actual knowledge of Islam.

Here is an example of the three points of view.

In Medina, Mohammed sat all day long beside his 12-year-old wife while they watched as the heads of 800 Jews were removed by sword. Their heads were cut off because they had said that Mohammed was not the prophet of Allah. Muslims view these deaths as necessary because denying Mohammed's prophet-hood was an offense against Islam and beheading is the accepted method of punishment, sanctioned by Allah.

Nonbelievers look at this event as proof of the jihadic violence of Islam and as an evil act.

Apologists say that this was a historic event, that all cultures have violence in their past, and no judgment should be passed. They have never actually read any of Islam's foundational texts, but still speak authoritatively about Islam.

According to the different points of view, killing the 800 Jews was:


· A tragedy
· A perfect sacred act
· Another historical event. We have done worse.

There is no "right" view of Islam, since the views cannot be reconciled.

This book is written from the nonbeliever point of view. Everything in this book views Islam from how it affects non-Muslims. This also means that the religion is of little importance. A Muslim cares about the religion of Islam, but all nonbelievers are affected by Islam's political views.

This book discusses Islam as a political system. There is no need to talk about Muslims or religion. Muslims are people and vary from one to another. Religion is what one does to go to Paradise and avoid Hell. It is not useful nor necessary to discuss Islam as a religion. But we have to talk about Islam in the political realm, because it is a powerful political system.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

That was a rhetorical question, everyone knew the answer.

Hey, Susan... don't speak for everyone, because I'd bet my bottom dollar that at least 98% don't agree with anything you say.

 

[lawgator1]

You know, its funny. Last night Gingrich glibly talked about Obama apologizing for the burning but that two American soldiers were being killed by protestors. He said it to a chorus of jeers.

Of course, I suppose it didn't occur to him, or the audience, that not apologizing might have meant more dead.

I really do not understand the far right's reaction to this. The burning was a mistake. We know it will be used by the terrorists to try to garner some empathy to their cause. So why not apologize for what we all know was a mistake and take away that ammunition?