Should Separate Records Be Kept In Comparing Wins?

[orangetd88]

What's your opinion?

 

[LadyinOrange]

If Geno Auriemma was the subject of the debate, no one would have DARED pose that question. A WIN IS A WIN IS A WIN!!! Nobody is going to make me believe that every single one of Dean Smith's wins was a "quality" win. I know he had his share of cupcakes too. Implying that Pat had it easier because she coached WOMEN is ARCHAIC. I wish our more literate members would go here


http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=7629


and speak up for Pat. I already did.

 

[orangetd88]

I posted this answer on another board...here is my opnion

They should be seperate. Everything else is, why shouldn't this be any different? Honestly, I think this has been hyped by the media simply because there is not much else to compare Summit's number of wins to.

While the game is played on the same court, let's face it, it's a different game. That should in no way diminish what Pat has done for UT, women's basketball, and basketball as a whole. Shiould she be mentioned in the same breath as Simth, Rupp, Wooden, etc? Yes. Should the numbers be thrown into the same mix? No.

Had there been someone before her that had amassed the amount of wins and success in the women's game, we would not even be having this conversation. Since Pat is the first to reach this amount of success in the women's game, she is being thrown in there with other greats from the men's game. As the women's game becomes more established, and others come along to rival her numbers, we probably won't hear their names mentioned with coaches from the men's side. As it stands, though, there aren't any women's coaches to compare her numbers to.

They shouldn't be mentioned together.

 

[LadyinOrange]

Hey la.lovesorange, do you think Dean Smith's record should even compare to Pat Summitt's considering he never had to deal with PMS, hormones, and female rivalries?


I am so mad at this whole debate. :furious3:

 

[orangetd88]

Why get so mad?

No one is diminishing the fact that Pat has won this many games, or what she has done for basketball.

They are different games, though.

Do you compare records in baseball and fast-pitch softball? No, they are different games. Played with similar equipment, on the same field, but they are different.

Tell me, what other records are mentioned in the same breath, or kept on the same book besides win totals?

 

[surrealvol]

This separate records stuff is a crock of crap. Basketball is basketball. Pat is going to win so many more games before she hangs it up that we won't even be comparing anything because she will be so far ahead.

Dean Smith won a boat load of games before the ACC became a competitive conference, so I think anyone who wants separate records has some kind of a hangup as to why Pat Summitt should be mentioned as the all time winningest coach in D-1 basketball.

I love both sides of the collegiate game. I am the PA announcer at my university for the ladies and I have done some games for the men. I rarely miss a game. Just because the ladies can't jump two feet above the rim and shoot the easiest shot in basketball (Tha DUNK), doesn't mean the game is inferior.

If we are going to get into this separate records thing, let's separate the pre-steriods and steroids records in baseball, the pre-dunk and dunk records in basketball, the pre-three-point records and the three-point records and so forth.

Pat has dealt with everything any other basketball caoch has dealt with, plus some, and she deserves to be called the winningest coach in D-1, hands down.

I get a little tired of this records thing anything. It is the game that counts and no one has coached it any better than Pat, male or female.

So, as far as I am concerned, this is a moot point and a bit of a pitiful topic to even discuss!!!!!!! End of the story from this perspective right here. :nono:

 

[LadyinOrange]

Originally posted by orangetd88@Mar 22, 2005 1:57 PM
Tell me, what other records are mentioned in the same breath, or kept on the same book besides win totals?

Who cares? My irritation is directed at the fact that her accomplishments are being diminished by a bunch of pantywaist analysts who are either jealous because THEIR coach isn't #1 or are a bunch of chauvinists who need a swift kick in the nether regions.

I am not mad at YOU, 88. I have been mad since the whole question was raised.

 

[LadyinOrange]

Originally posted by orangetd88@Mar 22, 2005 1:49 PM
While the game is played on the same court, let's face it, it's a different game.

How exactly? Do MEN score points differently than women? Do MEN'S teams follow softer rules than women? Do MEN get fewer fouls than women? I have watched men's AND women's basketball for years.

I see no difference, outside the fact the women are better looking.

 

[GoVolsDogg]

There isn't comparison, it's just a fact that Pat Summitt has just as many wins as Dean Smith does.

Dean Smith will be known as having the most wins in the mens college basketball game, and Pat Summitt will be known as having the most wins in the women's college basketball game, but the wins isnt a comparison, it's just a stated fact.

 

[GoVolsDogg]

Originally posted by LadyinOrange+Mar 22, 2005 4:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyinOrange @ Mar 22, 2005 4:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-orangetd88@Mar 22, 2005 1:49 PM
While the game is played on the same court, let&#39;s face it, it&#39;s a different game.

How exactly? Do MEN score points differently than women? Do MEN&#39;S teams follow softer rules than women? Do MEN get fewer fouls than women? I have watched men&#39;s AND women&#39;s basketball for years.

I see no difference, outside the fact the women are better looking. [/quote]
Different shot clocks, smaller ball, no 10 second half court violation, theres a few big differences in the mens and womens game.

 

[LadyinOrange]

Originally posted by GoVolsDogg@Mar 22, 2005 2:16 PM
There isn&#39;t  comparison, it&#39;s just a fact that Pat Summitt has just as many wins as Dean Smith does.

Dean Smith will be known as having the most wins in the mens college basketball game, and Pat Summitt will be known as having the most wins in the women&#39;s college basketball game, but the wins isnt a comparison, it&#39;s just a stated fact.

Well, after tonight, Pat Summitt will still have the most wins of ANYBODY.

You GO, Coach&#33;&#33;

:cheer:

 

[surrealvol]

And, three more things...

1) Most wins doesn&#39;t equivalate to being the best coach ever. It means you are the WINNINGEST coach ever.

2) Wouldn&#39;t you know that it would be :espn: :espn: :espn: that is creating the discussion?

3) Let&#39;s all go back and analyze all of the top two coaches&#39; records and let a distinguished panel (Probably consisting of Geno the Wuss, A select number of ACC authority figures, and the entire ESPeeN crew) evaluate every win by each to come up with "legitimate" wins and then see who has REALLY won the most QUALITY games.

GIVE ME A BREAK&#33; DISGUSTING&#33; :twocents:

 

[GoVolsDogg]

Originally posted by LadyinOrange+Mar 22, 2005 4:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyinOrange @ Mar 22, 2005 4:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GoVolsDogg@Mar 22, 2005 2:16 PM
There isn&#39;t  comparison, it&#39;s just a fact that Pat Summitt has just as many wins as Dean Smith does.

Dean Smith will be known as having the most wins in the mens college basketball game, and Pat Summitt will be known as having the most wins in the women&#39;s college basketball game, but the wins isnt a comparison, it&#39;s just a stated fact.

Pat Summitt still has the most wins of ANYBODY.

You GO, Coach&#33;&#33;

:cheer: [/quote]
Not yet, she&#39;s still tied with Dean Smith.

 

[kiddiedoc]

"How exactly? Do MEN score points differently than women? Do MEN&#39;S teams follow softer rules than women? Do MEN get fewer fouls than women? I have watched men&#39;s AND women&#39;s basketball for years.

I see no difference, outside the fact the women are better looking."


Don&#39;t forget the dunks

 

[LadyinOrange]

Originally posted by GoVolsDogg+Mar 22, 2005 2:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GoVolsDogg @ Mar 22, 2005 2:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Mar 22, 2005 4:18 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-GoVolsDogg

@Mar 22, 2005 2:16 PM
There isn&#39;t  comparison, it&#39;s just a fact that Pat Summitt has just as many wins as Dean Smith does.

Dean Smith will be known as having the most wins in the mens college basketball game, and Pat Summitt will be known as having the most wins in the women&#39;s college basketball game, but the wins isnt a comparison, it&#39;s just a stated fact.

Pat Summitt still has the most wins of ANYBODY.

You GO, Coach&#33;&#33;

:cheer:

Not yet, she&#39;s still tied with Dean Smith. [/quote]
I went back and edited my other post because I realized that before you posted it. LOL

 

[surrealvol]

Originally posted by GoVolsDogg+Mar 22, 2005 3:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GoVolsDogg @ Mar 22, 2005 3:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Mar 22, 2005 4:18 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-GoVolsDogg

@Mar 22, 2005 2:16 PM
There isn&#39;t  comparison, it&#39;s just a fact that Pat Summitt has just as many wins as Dean Smith does.

Dean Smith will be known as having the most wins in the mens college basketball game, and Pat Summitt will be known as having the most wins in the women&#39;s college basketball game, but the wins isnt a comparison, it&#39;s just a stated fact.

Pat Summitt still has the most wins of ANYBODY.

You GO, Coach&#33;&#33;

:cheer:

Not yet, she&#39;s still tied with Dean Smith. [/quote]
Only for about eight more hours&#33; :gun:

 

[LadyinOrange]

Originally posted by kiddiedoc@Mar 22, 2005 2:19 PM
"How exactly? Do MEN score points differently than women? Do MEN&#39;S teams follow softer rules than women? Do MEN get fewer fouls than women? I have watched men&#39;s AND women&#39;s basketball for years.

I see no difference, outside the fact the women are better looking."


Don&#39;t forget the dunks

I&#39;ve seen women players dunk. Michelle Snow was one of them.

 

[GoVolsDogg]

Originally posted by surrealvol+Mar 22, 2005 4:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (surrealvol @ Mar 22, 2005 4:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by GoVolsDogg@Mar 22, 2005 3:19 PM

Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Mar 22, 2005 4:18 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-GoVolsDogg

@Mar 22, 2005 2:16 PM
There isn&#39;t  comparison, it&#39;s just a fact that Pat Summitt has just as many wins as Dean Smith does.

Dean Smith will be known as having the most wins in the mens college basketball game, and Pat Summitt will be known as having the most wins in the women&#39;s college basketball game, but the wins isnt a comparison, it&#39;s just a stated fact.

Pat Summitt still has the most wins of ANYBODY.

You GO, Coach&#33;&#33;

:cheer:

Not yet, she&#39;s still tied with Dean Smith.

Only for about eight more hours&#33; :gun: [/quote]
yep, at approx. 11:30 EST she will have the most wins of all-time.

 

[GoVolsDogg]

Originally posted by LadyinOrange+Mar 22, 2005 4:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyinOrange @ Mar 22, 2005 4:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kiddiedoc@Mar 22, 2005 2:19 PM
"How exactly? Do MEN score points differently than women? Do MEN&#39;S teams follow softer rules than women? Do MEN get fewer fouls than women? I have watched men&#39;s AND women&#39;s basketball for years.

I see no difference, outside the fact the women are better looking."


Don&#39;t forget the dunks

I&#39;ve seen women players dunk. Michelle Snow was one of them. [/quote]
I think what he means is(or at least what I&#39;ll take by it), is that the mens game is the more physical inside post game that the ladies wouldn&#39;t be able to keep up with if they played against each other.

 

[LadyinOrange]

I wonder what Dean Smith&#39;s vote would be? Or John Wooden&#39;s.

 

[surrealvol]

You know, we&#39;re getting off the point here and headed to the men versus women thing.

I can&#39;t stand Carolina, but Dean Smith was a great coach, as was Wooden, Rupp, and numerous others.

HEY GANG, this is about THE MOST WINS. Most of us couldn&#39;t have a consistent .500 record year in and year out.

All these coaches are great, REGARDLESS of gender and the most wins are the most wins.

GO, Pat, GO&#33; Go Lady Vols&#33; NC&#33; NC&#33; NC&#33; :rocks:

 

[orangetd88]

As much as some want to make this a men verrsus women thing, it is not.

I would still like someone to show me in what sport, other than this instance, are the men&#39;s and women&#39;s numbers thrown in to the same category?

 

[LadyinOrange]

No other sport is in this situation, 88. Thank goodness.

 

[orangetd88]

Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Mar 22, 2005 2:54 PM
No other sport is in this situation, 88. Thank goodness.

Exactly the point, LIO. That is why the numbers, ALL OF THE NUMBERS, should be separate.

Men&#39;s and women&#39;s records in every other sport are seprate numbers because #1, they do not compete against each other, and #2 in alot of cases, basketball included, it is a different game.

I know it seems as if I am diminishing Pat&#39;s aaccomplishments. I&#39;m not, and if you read my post on page one of this thread, you&#39;ll see why this is even a greater accomplishment in the women&#39;s game, IMO.

 

[Vols4life]

Basketball is basketball&#33;&#33; Plain and simple&#33; You all must realize the record Pat passes will only be division 1 basketball&#33; Some other coach at Mckendree college has the most wins he is at a NAIA school&#33; So should his record wins not count since he is at a NAIA school? Crap no his wins count just as well&#33;

It is just the fact that Pat coaches womens bball that it is even brought up&#33; Pat is a well of a coach&#33; So this entire arguement is stupid just stupid&#33;

Had womens sports been on par from the start as mens sports Pat would still be breaking the record because she is just that good&#33;&#33;

GO BIG ORANGE AND GO LADY VOLS&#33;&#33;&#33;