Should Separate Records Be Kept In Comparing Wins?

Should Pat's wins be compared with the men's game?

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#26
#26
I can almost guarantee that it will be a VERY big deal if anyone ever surpasses Pat Summitt.
 
#27
#27
Basketball is basketball!! Plain and simple!
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So a guy who has coached high school for 30 years and has 1,000 wins should be in the same category as Pat or Dean? It's the same principle. It's not the same game.

It is just the fact that Pat coaches womens bball that it is even brought up! Pat is a well of a coach! So this entire arguement is stupid just stupid!
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Of course it is the fact that she coaches women's basketball. That's the whole point of the discussion. She coaches women's basketball, which is a different game than men's. I'm sorry, but that is a fact.

Had womens sports been on par from the start as mens sports Pat would still be breaking the record because she is just that good!!
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Pat would still have alot of wins, but she most likely would not be at the level she is right now for two reasons. One is that she probably would not have gotten a head coaching job as young as she did. the second is that the competition would have been better much earlier than it was in the women's game.
 
#28
#28
Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Mar 22, 2005 3:11 PM
I can almost guarantee that it will be a VERY big deal if anyone ever surpasses Pat Summitt.
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Oh yes it will!!!
 
#29
#29
Originally posted by LadyinOrange@Mar 22, 2005 3:11 PM
I can almost guarantee that it will be a VERY big deal if anyone ever surpasses Pat Summitt.
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It will be a huge deal, especially since she could have 1100-1200 wins by the time she is done.
 
#30
#30
Originally posted by orangetd88@Mar 22, 2005 3:15 PM
It is just the fact that Pat coaches womens bball that it is even brought up! Pat is a well of a coach! So this entire arguement is stupid just stupid!
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Of course it is the fact that she coaches women's basketball. That's the whole point of the discussion. She coaches women's basketball, which is a different game than men's. I'm sorry, but that is a fact.
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How is it different? Sure they have no 10 second violation call and a 30 second shot clock but how is it different? If they put in a 10 sec violation and used a 35 second shot clock it is still the same game as the mens!!! Only two different rules!!
 
#31
#31
Different rules make it a different game. The NBA has different rules than college. Do you consider those games the same?

Do you consider high school and college the same?
 
#32
#32
What a stupid argument. It's too different games. Of course they are seperate.

Women's b-ball only had like 10 teams until the mid-80's right? Heck, even now they struggle to find 64 teams willing to compete in the NCAA Women's Champsionship. The level of competion top to bottom is so far out of whack between the two. UT won by 50 something the other night. When was the last time a men's program won an opening round game by 50? Come on, get real. It's a great record and should be heralded as the greatest feat a women's coach has accomplished.
 
#34
#34
Coach Summit is no doubt not only the greatest womens coach of all-time but one of the best period.

1. Mens Hoops

2. Womens Hoops

In my opinion totally different games, that should however not distract from what Coach Summit has done, nor any other coach in either sport.

In this world of political correctness, why is it so hard to acknowledge that men are men and women are women. Why is it that everyone wants to compare the two games and try and make this issue something it is not.

Congratulations to Coach Summit, one of the greatest coaches of all-time. Certainly she has set the standard for what womens' college basketball is all about. Good Luck tonight and I hope that TN gets the W that you so rightfully have earned!
 
#35
#35
Originally posted by tnvoln77@Mar 22, 2005 4:36 PM
In this world of political correctness, why is it so hard to acknowledge that men are men and women are women. Why is it that everyone wants to compare the two games and try and make this issue something it is not.

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Great post. I couldn't agree more.
 
#36
#36
You can easily put Pat Summit on an equal footing with Dean Smith without having to combine the records.
 
#37
#37
I think people are getting this confused. It's not as if when someone says that Pat is the all-time winningest basketball coach in D-1 history, it takes away from the fact that Dean Smith is the all-time winningest coach in D-1 Men's Basketball history. Pat has the most for D-1 women and overall D-1 (two different categories) and Dean has the most for D-1 men.
In track and field, the fastest mile ever ran is still the fastest mile ever ran, whether it is by a man or a women, a 10-year old or a 90-year old. However, you could break it up into the fastest mile by a woman, the fastest mile by a man, the fastest mile by a senior citizen, or whatever.
I feel that the same principle applies here. Therefore, after the Lady Vols take care of Purdue tonight, Pat Summitt will have won more games than anyone (male or female) in D-1 basketball history.
 
#38
#38
Ok the way I see it is Pat summit is a great college coach, and so was Dean Smith. We should just admire her acomplishments and get on with it.


p.s. And by the way, ESPN will find some way to say Pat summit isn't as ggod as a coach as Smith. Doesn't tennessee always play the harest schedule in college basketball. Not like she is racking up a whole bunch of cup cake wins.
 
#39
#39
Originally posted by surrealvol@Mar 22, 2005 4:36 PM
You know, we're getting off the point here and headed to the men versus women thing.

I can't stand Carolina, but Dean Smith was a great coach, as was Wooden, Rupp, and numerous others.

HEY GANG, this is about THE MOST WINS. Most of us couldn't have a consistent .500 record year in and year out.

All these coaches are great, REGARDLESS of gender and the most wins are the most wins.

GO, Pat, GO! Go Lady Vols! NC! NC! NC! :rocks:
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If you want to compare the wins, then you have a men vs. women thing.

Pat Summitt will be the winningest d-1 coach of all time, plain and simple and is just a stated fact.

But whoever wants to compare the wins to each other is looking for a male vs. female argument.
 
#40
#40
Originally posted by Vols4life+Mar 22, 2005 5:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vols4life @ Mar 22, 2005 5:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-orangetd88@Mar 22, 2005 3:15 PM
It is just the fact that Pat coaches womens bball that it is even brought up&#33; Pat is a well of a coach&#33; So this entire arguement is stupid just stupid&#33;
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Of course it is the fact that she coaches women&#39;s basketball. That&#39;s the whole point of the discussion. She coaches women&#39;s basketball, which is a different game than men&#39;s. I&#39;m sorry, but that is a fact.
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How is it different? Sure they have no 10 second violation call and a 30 second shot clock but how is it different? If they put in a 10 sec violation and used a 35 second shot clock it is still the same game as the mens&#33;&#33;&#33; Only two different rules&#33;&#33; [/quote]
Why dont they play together then if its the same game?
 
#41
#41
Originally posted by DrRosenRosen@Mar 22, 2005 5:27 PM
Women&#39;s b-ball only had like 10 teams until the mid-80&#39;s right? Heck, even now they struggle to find 64 teams willing to compete in the NCAA Women&#39;s Champsionship. The level of competion top to bottom is so far out of whack between the two. UT won by 50 something the other night. When was the last time a men&#39;s program won an opening round game by 50? Come on, get real. It&#39;s a great record and should be heralded as the greatest feat a women&#39;s coach has accomplished.
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The point is that at all times, the Lady Vols competed against other teams that could have easily been their equals. It is not as if the Lady Vols have been competing for 200 years and all other teams have just started.
At some point in men&#39;s basketball, the men were in the same position, only have a certain number of teams and eventually becoming more competitive. Men&#39;s coaches from those years have had just as much of an opportunity as men&#39;s and women&#39;s coaches do now.
In 50 years, those coaches will have the same opportunity as coaches do now, because the competition around them is proportional to their own talent and game.
Not sure if this made sense, but it does in my head...
 
#42
#42
I have to agree with LIO. If this was Geno that we were talking about, it wouldn&#39;t even be a question.

Let&#39;s keep in mind that Pat always plays the hardest of schedules too. Not only is she going to break Smith&#39;s record, but she is going to shatter it considering she is only 52 or so.

*this post is coming out of Philly, I miss my Volnation family*
 
#44
#44
this is a real hard question.

but why shouldnt count.

college is college. men women dog donkey, whatever. u coach to win. u play the game to win.

the man&#39;s game is definetly more competitive though. but women&#39;s basketball is getting better.

but pat has been dominant. it hasnt taken her near as long as smith. she just keeps kicking butt every year. never falls off. they always win.

i think her consistency alone should put her name up there with the greastest ever.
 
#45
#45
For what it&#39;s worth, I think the whole question is moot since Wooden is the best ever.
 
#46
#46
Originally posted by GAVol@Mar 22, 2005 8:55 PM
For what it&#39;s worth, I think the whole question is moot since Wooden is the best ever.
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i agree. wooden was just a basketball master mind. he was a great student of the game. and wonderful teacher.
 
#47
#47
Originally posted by checkerboard_charly@Mar 22, 2005 9:54 PM
this is a real hard question.

but why shouldnt count.

college is college. men women dog donkey, whatever. u coach to win. u play the game to win.

the man&#39;s game is definetly more competitive though. but women&#39;s basketball is getting better.

but pat has been dominant. it hasnt taken her near as long as smith. she just keeps kicking butt every year. never falls off. they always win.

i think her consistency alone should put her name up there with the greastest ever.
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not near as long? Smith coached 35 years, Summitt is in here 31st.

4 years may seem like a long while, but when you&#39;ve coached as long as both have, it&#39;s not that big of a gsp.
 
#49
#49
The womens basektball analysts called it "apples to oranges" when comparing the two marks.

See, it is a different game.
 
#50
#50
This thread sucks.

How about people let other people think of it how they want to? I don&#39;t care about it one way or the other. So what if ESPN analysts say that Summitt is still a notch below Smith? That&#39;s like arguing that Wilt Chamberlain and Julius Evring were not as great as Michael Jordan. So? They&#39;re all amazing players. It&#39;s a crappy point of debate, and at the end of the day, nobody is going to change their minds.
 
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