So much for global warming.

[BigPapaVol]

Oh no, I've been noticed.

Never a good thing on VN.

I was referring to TT's resemblance to the pasting machine.

 

[MWR]

I was referring to TT's resemblance to the pasting machine.

OK, nevermind my post

I preferr to remain anonymous.

 

[TennTradition]

I was referring to TT's resemblance to the pasting machine.

Evil abounds here, apparently.

 

[gsvol]

GS - you might not, she moved back to the Cumberland plateau when she was in her teens. Her maiden name was Smith...a pretty common name! Her dad was Andrew Jackson Smith, but he died in about 1930 (not sure, that is a rough estimate).

What year did she move??

Pass near there every day on the way home from work.

Out I-24?

 

[TennTradition]

I'm not sure of the year....not even sure if it was called Scottsboro then!

 

[BeecherVol]

Out I-24?

Prolly Hwy 12. to Briley Pkwy. From Ashland City.

 

[gsvol]

I'm not sure of the year....not even sure if it was called Scottsboro then!

It was.

Prolly Hwy 12. to Briley Pkwy. From Ashland City.

Then he drives right through downtown Scottsboro twice daily, on workdays, uh provided he doesn't go home for lunch in which case that would be four times daily.

 

[shootermcgavin7]

I assume you guys are referring to the current cold snap.

Which only confirms your utter lack of understanding of the issue.

Don't you know that a single data point invalidates a long set of time-series data?

 

[JTrainDavis]

It's real easy, watch this.....

Climate Change has occurred since the Earth has been. Temperatures go up, and go down. Sometimes temperature are hotter in certain times, and colder in certain times. It's been going on like that since the beginning.

The whole global warming BS revolves around money. It's a political science, not one that will benefit humanity. Do I believe we need alternative fuels?? Absolutely, but not at the cost of making the average American household pay for it. If it's needed, the private sector will provide it.

except now we blame pollution, which may play a secondary role to natural earth cycles, as opposed to the days of yore, when we blamed the true causes, Witches...or, if there were none available, the Jews

 

[gsvol]

Don't you know that a single data point invalidates a long set of time-series data?

If LG is hit by a frozen iguana falling out of a palm tree, would that illustrate you data point theory?

In the actual, real data, long set of time-series data, your snake oil theory sucks like a shop vac.

 

[shootermcgavin7]

In the actual, real data, long set of time-series data, your snake oil theory sucks like a shop vac.

What is my "snake oil theory"?

And, forgive my curiosity, what time-series data are you speaking of?

 

[gsvol]

What is my "snake oil theory"?

And, forgive my curiosity, what time-series data are you speaking of?

You ought to be able to get that.

LG is a leading proponent of the CO2 global warming (snake oil) theory and we were joking about the arctic blast were are experiencing he jumped up with his usual crappola about one day not proving anything and you seemed to support his assertion.

All the snake oil salesmen want to start with the industrial revolution and claim it is going to kill us all.
(ala Karl Marx)

If you look at a much longer time line, say a million years, or a hundred thousand years, or ten thousand years or a thousand years and put the last one hundred and fifty years in that context, ANY DAMNED FOOL WITH HALF A BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND IT'S ALL SNAKE OIL CRAPPOLA!!!

(unless the data is manipulated in wuch a way as tend to prove the snake oil theory.)

 

[gsvol]

What is my "snake oil theory"?

And, forgive my curiosity, what time-series data are you speaking of?

You ought to be able to get that.

LG is a leading proponent of the CO2 global warming (snake oil) theory and we were joking about the arctic blast were are experiencing he jumped up with his usual crappola about one day not proving anything and you seemed to support his assertion.

All the snake oil salesmen want to start with the industrial revolution and claim it is going to kill us all.
(ala Karl Marx)

If you look at a much longer time line, say a million years, or a hundred thousand years, or ten thousand years or a thousand years and put the last one hundred and fifty years in that context, ANY DAMNED FOOL WITH HALF A BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND IT'S ALL SNAKE OIL CRAPPOLA!!!

(unless the data is manipulated in wuch a way as tend to prove the snake oil theory.)

 

[shootermcgavin7]

You ought to be able to get that.

LG is a leading proponent of the CO2 global warming (snake oil) theory and we were joking about the arctic blast were are experiencing he jumped up with his usual crappola about one day not proving anything and you seemed to support his assertion.

I fail to see where it is my theory, as you claimed in a prior post. I am not a climate theorist, I have no theory at all (especially not one to my name).

I am not supporting any "assertion", I simply observe that the general trend is that the global temperature is rising, and that a Canadian air blast coupled with El Nino doesn't affect the trend of the time series that empiricists have observed.

In a similar manner, I don't take two hours trading data from Wall Street and make claims about the economy over 40 years.

If you look at a much longer time line, say a million years, or a hundred thousand years, or ten thousand years or a thousand years and put the last one hundred and fifty years in that context, ANY DAMNED FOOL WITH HALF A BRAIN CAN UNDERSTAND IT'S ALL SNAKE OIL CRAPPOLA!!!

You see the same trend over all five time-series you listed? Most random series (like stocks) are indistinguishable regardless of which time-series you look at (for example a stock's daily chart looks similar to its yearly chart, etc).

 

[gsvol]

I fail to see where it is my theory, as you claimed in a prior post. I am not a climate theorist, I have no theory at all (especially not one to my name).

I am not supporting any "assertion", I simply observe that the general trend is that the global temperature is rising, and that a Canadian air blast coupled with El Nino doesn't affect the trend of the time series that empiricists have observed.

In a similar manner, I don't take two hours trading data from Wall Street and make claims about the economy over 40 years.





You see the same trend over all five time-series you listed? Most random series (like stocks) are indistinguishable regardless of which time-series you look at (for example a stock's daily chart looks similar to its yearly chart, etc).

Sorry about the double post.

I was referring to your;

Don't you know that a single data point invalidates a long set of time-series data?

That was the theory that I referred to as "your theory."

It was a joke.

Anyone understands you can't take one day or one week and make some long term prediction just as you can't take one hundred and fifty years out of the greater context and make such a dire prediction for the next century mandates we must act immediatly in a very radical manner that doesn't even solve the problem but does surrender vast amounts of freedom to governments while enriching a few to the tune of $$$$ trillions, or maybe even quadrillions.

 

[shootermcgavin7]

Sorry about the double post.

I was referring to your;



That was the theory that I referred to as "your theory."

It was a joke.

Gotcha. Jokes are theories.

Anyone understands you can't take one day or one week and make some long term prediction just as you can't take one hundred and fifty years out of the greater context

You can if the process is non-random. Like I said, most daily charts for a particular stock are identical to the annual charts. These are mostly random processes.

 

[gsvol]

Gotcha. Jokes are theories.




You can if the process is non-random. Like I said, most daily charts for a particular stock are identical to the annual charts. These are mostly random processes.

A long long long time ago my wife (then girlfriend) was the executive secretary for the head of the top stock and bond house in this state, they called her 'the spook', maybe because of the innocent, innocuous little questions I used to feed her.

Crunch those numbers white boy, you are chasing a carrot you will never get a bite of no matter how many hoops you jump through the way you are going.

If CO2 is the problem, (not that I believe it is, human habitation of Earth historically has been possilbe with ten times the present CO2 levels,)why not this?

 

[shootermcgavin7]

Your chart goes to ~2013. Is that a mistake or are you working with pretend data?

I'm also not sure what it is supposed to represent. I'm not sure what data you are graphing, but it isn't a stock, which is what I claimed is random. I don't think debt issues are random. Again, this has the caveat that I'm not sure what you graph represents..............but I'm pretty sure it isn't a time series of stock prices or global temps.


I am, however, interested in this thought process:

If CO2 is the problem, (not that I believe it is, human habitation of Earth historically has been possilbe with ten times the present CO2 levels

I am not sure how the possibility of existence relates to a claim that humans are causing marginal increases of global temperatures. To extend your logic (on the survival link), you are basically saying that if some humans survive gunshots, then guns cannot be man-made. Feel free to object, then insert any deadly man-made object that humans occasionally survive. I can walk you through it if you like.

The causes of the upward trend in temps should be exposed to rigorous debate, but hopefully exposed to better counterarguments than that one.

 

[IPorange]

The Earth hasn't had 10 times the amount of CO2 it currently has in 500 million years. That's 270 million years before the dinosaurs. Life on Earth looked like this:

It might as well have been a different planet.

 

[shootermcgavin7]

The Earth hasn't had 10 times the amount of CO2 it currently has in 500 million years.

I was playing along, because even if it had, the point was irrelevant.


Besides, a large body of the anti-global-warming crowd here in Georgia thinks that the earth is 6,000 years old, and would toss you in a river to make sure you weren't a witch if you made that statement in public

 

[gsvol]

Your chart goes to ~2013. Is that a mistake or are you working with pretend data?

You are unschooled in the futures market?

I'm also not sure what it is supposed to represent. I'm not sure what data you are graphing, but it isn't a stock, which is what I claimed is random. I don't think debt issues are random. Again, this has the caveat that I'm not sure what you graph represents..............but I'm pretty sure it isn't a time series of stock prices or global temps.

Good guess.

I am, however, interested in this thought process:



I am not sure how the possibility of existence relates to a claim that humans are causing marginal increases of global temperatures. To extend your logic (on the survival link), you are basically saying that if some humans survive gunshots, then guns cannot be man-made. Feel free to object, then insert any deadly man-made object that humans occasionally survive. I can walk you through it if you like.

Go ahead.

The causes of the upward trend in temps should be exposed to rigorous debate, but hopefully exposed to better counterarguments than that one.

I already have not only ocassionally but ad nauseum.

Check back on the board.

The Earth hasn't had 10 times the amount of CO2 it currently has in 500 million years. That's 270 million years before the dinosaurs. Life on Earth looked like this:

It might as well have been a different planet.

Different planet or not, the climate and atmosphere were hospitibal and condusive to human habitation.

The CO2 scare is a scam, dig it.

 

[shootermcgavin7]

You are unschooled in the futures market?

Not at all. I am, however, educated enough not to label 2013 futures prices as the "real 2013 price".

Go ahead.

Really? You don't realize how screwed up that is?

Your argument:

[1] Some humans living in high CO2 environments live.
[2] Global warming says CO2 levels are rising.
[3] Thus, global warming isn't caused by humans.


Let's go with the old-school childrens' magazines - can you find the flaw?

[1] Sometimes people who are shot survive.
[2] Theory predicts that gunshots are caused by guns.
[3] Thus, gunshots aren't performed by people.

Logically, it is the same argument. Now, waste your time nitpicking with details.

I already have not only ocassionally but ad nauseum.

Check back on the board.

I would be happy to. Post your dataset?

 

[MG1968]

Global warming is becoming so severe that a leading climate researcher/alarmist is now predicting a 30-year-long mini-ice age.

arguing with AGW alarmists is like arguing with a woman, pointless and frustrating

 

[gsvol]

More fall out from knee jerk governmental reaction to the idiotic radical enviro lobby, I give you the:

biomass subsidy program

In a matter of months, the Biomass Crop Assistance Program -- a small provision tucked into the 2008 farm bill -- has mushroomed into a half-a-billion dollar subsidy that is funneling taxpayer dollars to sawmills and lumber wholesalers, encouraging them to sell their waste to be converted into high-tech biofuels. In doing so, it is shutting off the supply of cheap timber byproducts to the nation's composite wood manufacturers, who make panels for home entertainment centers and kitchen cabinets.

If the enviro lobby wishes to drive America into hyper inflation and economic collapse, it couldn't be doing much better unless perhaps they are successful in passing crap and tax or barring that the epa could unilatterally eforce such lunacy.
--------------------------------------

I can't find the link to the following, so I will cut and paste parts, my apologies to slow scrollers beforehand.

To: NewMediaJournal

This article is BS as applies to northern CA. We have hundreds of thousands of acres burning annually and threatening communities because it is too expensive to thin and remove fuels in dangerously overstocked forests.

All wildfires emit air pollution. These fires account for approximately one-fifth of the total global emissions of carbon dioxide (Levine and Cofer 2000; Schimel 1995). Andreae and Merlet (2001) calculate that 5,130 Tg per year of biomass is consumed in fires, emitting 8,200 Tg per year of carbon dioxide, 413 Tg per year of carbon monoxide, and 19.4 Tg per year of methane.

The Quincy Library Group came up with a series of “prescriptions” for treating their dry forests to restore them to a healthy state and return forest resilience to wildfire.

Here are some examples of what that looks like taken from the 235 acre Elam Thin Project:

Overhead canopy was reduced from 94 percent to 52 percent. Trees were thinned from an average of 780 trees per acre to 120 trees per acre. 1.5 mmbf of sawlogs were removed. 8,800 green tons of biomass was removed. The process employed a crew of 19 people for 45 days and the contactor actually made money. (The Klamath-Trinity currently has stocking at 2-3,000 trees per acre.)

We need higher prices for the chips to overcome the cost of hauling and we need to have biomass/cogen facilities built in the first place. (We don’t have any in our area.) These won’t be built unless they ease up on the opportunity for environmental NIMBYs to sue and a sustainable opportunity and supply of chips is secured to offset the investments in these facilities. Locally, we have more than 500,000 tons of biomass available each year from our private and public forests.

For instance, currently the Klamath National Forest (KNF) alone has 13 billion board feet of standing inventory. An additional 650 million is grown each year. Yet only about 52 million board feet is offered for harvest and removal each year – about a quarter of that is firewood and biomass.

If a facility is built, it has about a 50 mile radius from which to harvest biomass. Beyond that, the costs of hauling become too great. It takes about 7,000-7,500 Bone Dry Tons (BDT) to produce one megawatt of power. A five megawatt facility uses about 70,000 green tons or 35,000 BDT. Forty acres of fuel reduction produces an estimated 7-10 BDT.

Moore talked about the pricing problem with biomass.

Currently, big utilities are willing to pay 20-30 cents per kWh for wind and solar energy, but the going rate for biomass energy is only 3-5 cents. It is estimated that the rate would have to be increased to at least 12 cents to make the industry sustainable.

The new Farm Bill has a two year “crop assistance” funding where USDA will provide a one for one match to suppliers on the price being paid per bone dry ton. The subsidy program could help the biomass industry off the ground in northern California.

The market is already cattiwampus from the subsidies to competing sources of alternative energy skewing competition in the market place.

In addition, the subsidies will offset the costs of treating the fuels in the forest and eventualy create a sustainable market system for maintaining forest health.

 

[gsvol]

Not at all. I am, however, educated enough not to label 2013 futures prices as the "real 2013 price".





Really? You don't realize how screwed up that is?

Your argument:

[1] Some humans living in high CO2 environments live.
[2] Global warming says CO2 levels are rising.
[3] Thus, global warming isn't caused by humans.


Let's go with the old-school childrens' magazines - can you find the flaw?

[1] Sometimes people who are shot survive.
[2] Theory predicts that gunshots are caused by guns.
[3] Thus, gunshots aren't performed by people.

Logically, it is the same argument. Now, waste your time nitpicking with details.



I would be happy to. Post your dataset?

Hockey sticks, puck you!

You personify nitpickedness.

Global warming is becoming so severe that a leading climate researcher/alarmist is now predicting a 30-year-long mini-ice age.

arguing with AGW alarmists is like arguing with a woman, pointless and frustrating

You jest? :birgits_giggle: