So taking out NIL and even looking at the situation as an NCAA infraction

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volbound1700

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#1
I am still confused on how this is an infraction even pre-NIL.

Assuming NY Times facts are true that Nico had a flight to Knoxville paid for during his recruiting, aren't schools allowed to fly players in for recruiting? I mean, I am sitting here playing NCAA 2013 and scheduling visits. I thought that was legal under the old regime as well.

Is it because it was Sprye and not UTK itself?
 
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#2
#2
volbound1700 said:
I am still confused on how this is an infraction even pre-NIL.

Assuming NY Times facts are true that Nico had a flight to Knoxville paid for during his recruiting, aren't schools allowed to fly players in for recruiting? I mean, I am sitting here playing NCAA 2013 and scheduling visits. I thought that was legal under the old regime as well.

Is it because it was Sprye and not UTK itself?
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the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.
 
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#3
#3
topdog4tn said:
the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.
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Thanks, that part was confusing me.

Agree on later paragraph and understand that issue as well but I was thinking the old mindset before collectives/Alston.
 
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#4
#4
topdog4tn said:
the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.
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It is a thin line with some of the collectives. They are more than likely receiving contributions and have connections with individuals that are boosters and contribute to the university programs.

If they are truly independent and serve to connect players with companies / organizations that will provide $$ to the player for the NIL regardless of where they choose to attend college. That is okay. But if any connections are back to a university that is going to be an issue and will violate the other bylaw.

Many of the players when they transfer end up connecting with collectives that are tightly coupled with a university.

This may not be as simple as many think to unwind and it could backfire on UT.
 
#5
#5
volfan102455 said:
It is a thin line with some of the collectives. They are more than likely receiving contributions and have connections with individuals that are boosters and contribute to the university programs.

If they are truly independent and serve to connect players with companies / organizations that will provide $$ to the player for the NIL regardless of where they choose to attend college. That is okay. But if any connections are back to a university that is going to be an issue and will violate the other bylaw.

Many of the players when they transfer end up connecting with collectives that are tightly coupled with a university.

This may not be as simple as many think to unwind and it could backfire on UT.
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Yeah but Tennessee is pretty freaking confident they have done everything right with Nico. They have checked every back alley and are sure the school or coaches had nothing to do with that flight
 
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#6
#6
volfan102455 said:
It is a thin line with some of the collectives. They are more than likely receiving contributions and have connections with individuals that are boosters and contribute to the university programs.
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There's no thin line as almost every fan could fit the NCAAs booster definition. That's why the separation was so important at the time since nil couldn't be connected. That's also why the ncaa wants to retroactively reclassify the collectives as boosters so they can have control
 
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#7
#7
The big issue with the wrong rules, even discounting the fact they limit players, is that they are virtually impossible to enforce fairly. You can't track people giving a player money or backroom deals. It is impossible. NCAA never had that ability and only relied on whistleblowers or favoritism. It was problematic from day one.

Rules on paying players are not going to work and will never work in the scheme of things because there is so many ways to hide it.
 
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#8
#8
volbound1700 said:
The big issue with the wrong rules, even discounting the fact they limit players, is that they are virtually impossible to enforce fairly. You can't track people giving a player money or backroom deals. It is impossible. NCAA never had that ability and only relied on whistleblowers or favoritism. It was problematic from day one.

Rules on paying players are not going to work and will never work in the scheme of things because there is so many ways to hide it.
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It has been going on forever under the table. The whole thing is dumb. The thing I am concerned about is if the ncaa loses this case they will constantly be on the hunt to nail UT with anything they can including setting up traps and frameups to get us in the end. The ncaa should be abolished and a new governing body needs to be formed that has the ability to handle the new world of NIL and transfer portal. They are so locked into the past the current staff will never be able to comprehend the situation as is now exists and what is needed as things evolve.
 
#9
#9
utvolpj said:
There's no thin line as almost every fan could fit the NCAAs booster definition. That's why the separation was so important at the time since nil couldn't be connected. That's also why the ncaa wants to retroactively reclassify the collectives as boosters so they can have control
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But if they can name anyone a booster they effectively can kill NIL hence the suit against the NCAA by the AGs.
 
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#11
#11
topdog4tn said:
the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.
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And the fact that the NCAA took it on their own to make that determination regarding boosters instead of the membership making that decision. The decision by the NCAA was also made AFTER the event had occurred.
 
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#12
#12
volfan102455 said:
It is a thin line with some of the collectives. They are more than likely receiving contributions and have connections with individuals that are boosters and contribute to the university programs.

If they are truly independent and serve to connect players with companies / organizations that will provide $$ to the player for the NIL regardless of where they choose to attend college. That is okay. But if any connections are back to a university that is going to be an issue and will violate the other bylaw.

Many of the players when they transfer end up connecting with collectives that are tightly coupled with a university.

This may not be as simple as many think to unwind and it could backfire on UT.
Click to expand...
Spyre sports represents professional golfers and other sports as well, and the lawyer representing them has said Nicos contract was written with Spyre as them signing him as a potential NFL talent, it states nothing about college. I truly believe the paper trail is clean in this one and thats why our administration is so confident.
 
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#13
#13
topdog4tn said:
the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.
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They have a very weak case. GBO
 
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#15
#15
Dadof2Vols said:
But if they can name anyone a booster they effectively can kill NIL hence the suit against the NCAA by the AGs.
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That's what I was thinking. I thought I saw years ago that the NCAA can say anyone who buys a ticket or attends a NCAA sporting event can be considered a "booster" so all those people would not be legally allowed to donate to a collective.
 
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#16
#16
#17
#17
volfan102455 said:
It is a thin line with some of the collectives. They are more than likely receiving contributions and have connections with individuals that are boosters and contribute to the university programs.

If they are truly independent and serve to connect players with companies / organizations that will provide $$ to the player for the NIL regardless of where they choose to attend college. That is okay. But if any connections are back to a university that is going to be an issue and will violate the other bylaw.

Many of the players when they transfer end up connecting with collectives that are tightly coupled with a university.

This may not be as simple as many think to unwind and it could backfire on UT.
Click to expand...
Do you honestly think Tom Mars would have taken this case if any of that were true? And also, what’s the true definition of a booster?
 
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#18
#18
BigOrangeTrain said:
Do you honestly think Tom Mars would have taken this case if any of that were true? And also, what’s the true definition of a booster?
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The case will have lots of publicity and money for any lawyer involved.

Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:

  • Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
  • Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.
  • Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
  • Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
  • Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
  • Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
  • Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.
By this definition, I am a booster because I have season tickets.
 
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#19
#19
topdog4tn said:
the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.
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Also, if I’m not mistaken, doesn’t Spyre qualify more as a business in itself and not the actual collective? If im understanding it right, The Volunteer Club is our actual collective which didn’t have anything do do with Nico flying in. Am I right? 🫠🙃
 
#20
#20
topdog4tn said:
Spyre sports represents professional golfers and other sports as well, and the lawyer representing them has said Nicos contract was written with Spyre as them signing him as a potential NFL talent, it states nothing about college. I truly believe the paper trail is clean in this one and thats why our administration is so confident.
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I think the key is: who set up the flight for Nico?

If Spyre arranged the flight, absolutely no problem IF he had Spyre related business or meetings in Knoxville.

If Spyre flew him in for the unofficial visit and nothing more, it's a gray area.

If UT arranged the flight, that's not good.
 
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#23
#23
topdog4tn said:
the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.
Click to expand...
Boosters can now be a part in nil? I thought they could contribute to nil collectives legally? If so I don't see a problem, and if Nico went on a unofficial visit, what is the problem, can't any player do this? I don't know the answers, maybe you or someone else can explain.
 
#25
#25
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I think the key is: who set up the flight for Nico?

If Spyre arranged the flight, absolutely no problem IF he had Spyre related business or meetings in Knoxville.

If Spyre flew him in for the unofficial visit and nothing more, it's a gray area.

If UT arranged the flight, that's not good.
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For your first and last point, I'm pretty positive from the details that have been released, Spyre setup the flight.

For the 2nd and 3rd point, how would the NCAA even know? Spyre could label almost anything as Spyre related business....they could fly him in for dinner and just have friendly conversation dealing with no business and the NCAA wouldnt know the difference. Even if Spyre flew him in only for the unofficial visit, how would the NCAA prove that?

If Spyres only intention was to fly him in to unofficially visit, the NCAA could never prove that because there would be no paper trail to follow to prove it. Spyre could take him to play putt-putt say bye to him, and then he could go jump in an Uber to the University because he was "in town".

If i can come up with that scenario...these people running the show could definitely come up with something.

I mean none of this in a smart a** way either....I know sometimes when using text for communication, the intent is up to pure interpretation, so just wanted to be clear.
 
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