So taking out NIL and even looking at the situation as an NCAA infraction

[TopDog4TN]

Boosters can now be a part in nil? I thought they could contribute to nil collectives legally? If so I don't see a problem, and if Nico went on a unofficial visit, what is the problem, can't any player do this? I don't know the answers, maybe you or someone else can explain.

Boosters can contribute directly in any way toward the recruitment of a player, donating to a collective is indirect so that would be perfectly legal.

The problem is the NCAA trying to define Spyre as a booster under "their rules". Its a leap they're taking based on loose interpretation of what a booster is by their rules and what Spyre's role was in the recruitment of Nico. IMO their argument doesn't have any merrit and that is why we've seen our administration respond the way they have. That's why Danny White basically said in his statement that the NCAA found no direct violation of NIL so they"re trying to come up with a BS method of making allegations based on their predetermined outcome to fit their agenda of reeling NIL in and using Tennessee as the University to do so since Nico was one of if not the biggest recruits in the realm of NIL since it started. They thought it would be easy to sway everyones opinion in their favour since we were just hit with sanctions for the Pruitt era.

 

[KTrain]

the University could pay for flight and travel for official visits. Everything has to be paid for by the recruits family for unofficial visits. The instance the NCAA is pointing to with Nico was an unofficial visit.

Now with Spyre sports there still should be no problem with them paying for his flight or providing transportation because he is their client, what the NCAA is trying to say is collectives fall under the old booster bylaw. This is why many people dont think the NCAA has a very good case.

Yeah it was unofficial, I have no idea but Sprye may also have clients that will be going to say UT Chatt or MTSU or some neighboring State college. Nothing in the contract mentions the college it is directly with this marketing agency.

 

[LWSVOL]

I am still confused on how this is an infraction even pre-NIL.

Assuming NY Times facts are true that Nico had a flight to Knoxville paid for during his recruiting, aren't schools allowed to fly players in for recruiting? I mean, I am sitting here playing NCAA 2013 and scheduling visits. I thought that was legal under the old regime as well.

Is it because it was Sprye and not UTK itself?

fly commercial is ok.. use of a boosters plane would not be ok pre-NIL.

rules pre-NIL and post NIL have not changed in regards to coaches or school staff's involvement in recruiting of players. Those things are still the same. That is true for boosters like say a Larry Smith. Boosters cannot pay for anything directly to recruits or parents. Those rules have remained in place all along.

As long as a recruit has signed an agreement with a collective, that collective can pay for travel expenses for their client. There are no rules being broken for that. Now it has to be legal under state law and in California high school kids can sign with collectives.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

For your first and last point, I'm pretty positive from the details that have been released, Spyre setup the flight.

For the 2nd and 3rd point, how would the NCAA even know? Spyre could label almost anything as Spyre related business....they could fly him in for dinner and just have friendly conversation dealing with no business and the NCAA wouldnt know the difference. Even if Spyre flew him in only for the unofficial visit, how would the NCAA prove that?

If Spyres only intention was to fly him in to unofficially visit, the NCAA could never prove that because there would be no paper trail to follow to prove it. Spyre could take him to play putt-putt say bye to him, and then he could go jump in an Uber to the University because he was "in town".

If i can come up with that scenario...these people running the show could definitely come up with something.

I mean none of this in a smart a** way either....I know sometimes when using text for communication, the intent is up to pure interpretation, so just wanted to be clear.

I'll feel better knowing there's a solid trail that plane ride was donated to Spyre and arranged by Spyre.

If you have Spyre saying they arranged the flight, I'll thank you.

I'm not arguing the NCAA case. I think the rules about unofficial visits are the only potential problem.

 

[turbovol]

First, how does Sprye decide which prospects to offer NIL deals to--and how much they should be worth? It does this on its own,
with no contact with the football program? Or is it allowed to consult with the football program? I can't imagine how it could function without lots of contact with the program.

More important, using NIL as a recruiting inducement is a fool's game--a sucker's game. Do UT fans really think NIL is going to give us a recruiting advantage over bama, georgia, OSU, Texas and everybody else? Please: don't be naive. Sure we can shower one or two top prospects like Nico with absurd, embarrassing sums of money and get them to sign--and everybody else will do the same with other top prospects. And we'll lose a lot more bribery contests than we'll win--because every major has lots of crazy boosters/fans who'll fund collectives with piles of money.

No major is going to sit on its hands and watch its rivals outbid it for top prospects. There is no advantage for anybody--so why engage in it? It's stupid--the equivalent of a bunch of 40 horny, middle-aged men hoping to get a smile and a wiggle from a stripper if they stick a $100 bill in her G string. The collectives are just turning high-school kids into cynical money-grubbing mercenaries. That's what we want college football to be about? And half of them will transfer after a year or two anyway.

We and others can sue the NCAA in the hope of carrying on with offering NIL deals to prospects, but let's not naively think that it's going benefit us at the expense of all the other majors with their boosters and their collectives. It won't. Everybody wll just run around throwing money at kids for no reason other than their desperation to win football games.

 

[volbound1700]

fly commercial is ok.. use of a boosters plane would not be ok pre-NIL.

rules pre-NIL and post NIL have not changed in regards to coaches or school staff's involvement in recruiting of players. Those things are still the same. That is true for boosters like say a Larry Smith. Boosters cannot pay for anything directly to recruits or parents. Those rules have remained in place all along.

As long as a recruit has signed an agreement with a collective, that collective can pay for travel expenses for their client. There are no rules being broken for that. Now it has to be legal under state law and in California high school kids can sign with collectives.

Yeah, this is kind of the ticky tacky stuff that people hated about NCAA rules. Why does type of flight matter and why can't you fly someone to your campus? Does that really give a school a massive advantage? Heck, I have seen schools pay for flights for students for Academic purposes like my sister.

 

[TopDog4TN]

I'll feel better knowing there's a solid trail that plane ride was donated to Spyre and arranged by Spyre.

If you have Spyre saying they arranged the flight, I'll thank you.

I'm not arguing the NCAA case. I think the rules about unofficial visits are the only potential problem.

so the article I was thinking of that made mention of the private jet was the NY Times article. Now we know they dont have the most informed or best writers/editors, so I inferred based on the last paragraph where they said "the collective had a deal with Nico worth 8 mil" that they're speaking on Spyre throughout the article even though Spyre isnt the collective. In this 2nd paragraph they also try and infer that Spyre is made up of boosters and wealthy alumni, which I assume is because the NCAA allegations are labeling Spyre as breaking the "booster" bylaws. Co-founder Hunter Baddour also graduated from Tennessee, but that alone doesnt define him as a booster.

"The N.C.A.A. is investigating the University of Tennessee’s football program for recruiting violations involving a group of outside donors, signaling an escalation of efforts to rein in the growing influence of money flooding into college sports, according to documents and people familiar with the case.

The investigation is focused on Tennessee’s high-profile donor collective, a group of alumni and wealthy boosters who support the team by channeling payments and other benefits to players. The inquiry is looking at, among other things, the group’s role in flying a high-profile recruit to campus on a private jet while the football team was wooing him, one person familiar with the case said."

NY Times article

 

[camp_steveo]

I thought the Spyre contract did not obligate Nico to any particular school. That would mean, IMO, that Spyre paying for a flight would have nothing to do with UT.

Seems like the NCAA is power trippin.

 

[TopDog4TN]

I thought the Spyre contract did not obligate Nico to any particular school. That would mean, IMO, that Spyre paying for a flight would have nothing to do with UT.

Seems like the NCAA is power trippin.

According the Spyres lawyer Tom Mars you'd be absolutely correct.

 

[onevol74]

First, how does Sprye decide which prospects to offer NIL deals to--and how much they should be worth? It does this on its own,
with no contact with the football program? Or is it allowed to consult with the football program? I can't imagine how it could function without lots of contact with the program.

More important, using NIL as a recruiting inducement is a fool's game--a sucker's game. Do UT fans really think NIL is going to give us a recruiting advantage over bama, georgia, OSU, Texas and everybody else? Please: don't be naive. Sure we can shower one or two top prospects like Nico with absurd, embarrassing sums of money and get them to sign--and everybody else will do the same with other top prospects. And we'll lose a lot more bribery contests than we'll win--because every major has lots of crazy boosters/fans who'll fund collectives with piles of money.

No major is going to sit on its hands and watch its rivals outbid it for top prospects. There is no advantage for anybody--so why engage in it? It's stupid--the equivalent of a bunch of 40 horny, middle-aged men hoping to get a smile and a wiggle from a stripper if they stick a $100 bill in her G string. The collectives are just turning high-school kids into cynical money-grubbing mercenaries. That's what we want college football to be about? And half of them will transfer after a year or two anyway.

We and others can sue the NCAA in the hope of carrying on with offering NIL deals to prospects, but let's not naively think that it's going benefit us at the expense of all the other majors with their boosters and their collectives. It won't. Everybody wll just run around throwing money at kids for no reason other than their desperation to win football games.

I agree with this. Schools outside of Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC will have more limited resources and will not be able to compete with the outrageous amounts of money if those schools really want a player. Look at aTm over the last two years. Even Alabama could not afford that roster. I am not sure that major UT donors are willing to get into that game and just start throwing their money away on potential talent. After all, what good are bought championships? You are not really earning them, just buying them.

 

[kckempf]

Is this not impermissible benefits? A player will never be ineligible…

Oregon university will no longer give D- and F grades | The College Fix

The topic of grade inflation remains a pressing concern in higher education today.

www.thecollegefix.com

There's probably some NCAA rule dictating the formula for GPA for a no-pass. It's pretty pointless anyway because the NCAA effectively gave academic responsibility entirely to the schools with the UNC case, basically saying that if a school wants to make automatic pass courses that keep their athletes in good standing they couldn't do anything about it.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

I still have one question: Did Nico visit with the UT coaches while he was in Knoxville for the 'business meeting' with Spyer? Seems this is part of the NCAA's infractions claim of it being an unofficial recruiting visit, thus the private plane trip. Just trying to understand where the NCAA would consider they have a case.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

so the article I was thinking of that made mention of the private jet was the NY Times article. Now we know they dont have the most informed or best writers/editors, so I inferred based on the last paragraph where they said "the collective had a deal with Nico worth 8 mil" that they're speaking on Spyre throughout the article even though Spyre isnt the collective. In this 2nd paragraph they also try and infer that Spyre is made up of boosters and wealthy alumni, which I assume is because the NCAA allegations are labeling Spyre as breaking the "booster" bylaws. Co-founder Hunter Baddour also graduated from Tennessee, but that alone doesnt define him as a booster.

"The N.C.A.A. is investigating the University of Tennessee’s football program for recruiting violations involving a group of outside donors, signaling an escalation of efforts to rein in the growing influence of money flooding into college sports, according to documents and people familiar with the case.

The investigation is focused on Tennessee’s high-profile donor collective, a group of alumni and wealthy boosters who support the team by channeling payments and other benefits to players. The inquiry is looking at, among other things, the group’s role in flying a high-profile recruit to campus on a private jet while the football team was wooing him, one person familiar with the case said."

NY Times article

Thanks. If Spyre was donated the flight, I think UT will be clear.

My only real concern is the flight and the rules prohibiting the school from arranging/funding transportation for unofficial visits.

Without that, the NCAA has nothing, IMO.

 

[Volfan2012]

Spyre was more his employer than a booster for Tennessee. You can fly an employee who has signed a contract with you anywhere they want to go. I'm sure the NCAA is trying to prove intent was UT wanted him to come and visit which could be true. Still he signed with Spyre in high school under California law seems like a real reach by the NCAA and why going to court has come about.

 

[volfan102455]

There's no thin line as almost every fan could fit the NCAAs booster definition. That's why the separation was so important at the time since nil couldn't be connected. That's also why the ncaa wants to retroactively reclassify the collectives as boosters so they can have control

It is a very gray area.

Are those that own and operate the collective also "boosters" under the NCAA definition of a "booster"? Are "boosters" donating money that in turn ends up supporting the university that they are considered a "booster" for? The answer to both of these is probably yes for all collectives associated with all schools BTW.

Was the unofficial visit a spur of the moment thing or discussed / planned as part of the activities that would occur while he was in Knoxville?

Was the individual who donated the private plane considered a "booster"? Did that individual know what said plane was being used for?

Really not sure why so many think this is a slam dunk for Tennessee - in my opinion this is actually testing the loopholes that exist between NIL and the NCAA recruiting rules.

 

[GoodTimeVol]

It is a very gray area.

Are those that own and operate the collective also "boosters" under the NCAA definition of a "booster"? Are "boosters" donating money that in turn ends up supporting the university that they are considered a "booster" for? The answer to both of these is probably yes for all collectives associated with all schools BTW.

Was the unofficial visit a spur of the moment thing or discussed / planned as part of the activities that would occur while he was in Knoxville?

Was the individual who donated the private plane considered a "booster"? Did that individual know what said plane was being used for?

Really not sure why so many think this is a slam dunk for Tennessee - in my opinion this is actually testing the loopholes that exist between NIL and the NCAA recruiting rules.

There are no loopholes the ncaa has no antitrust provisions…this is a slam dunk case

 

[volfan102455]

First, how does Sprye decide which prospects to offer NIL deals to--and how much they should be worth? It does this on its own,
with no contact with the football program? Or is it allowed to consult with the football program? I can't imagine how it could function without lots of contact with the program.

More important, using NIL as a recruiting inducement is a fool's game--a sucker's game. Do UT fans really think NIL is going to give us a recruiting advantage over bama, georgia, OSU, Texas and everybody else? Please: don't be naive. Sure we can shower one or two top prospects like Nico with absurd, embarrassing sums of money and get them to sign--and everybody else will do the same with other top prospects. And we'll lose a lot more bribery contests than we'll win--because every major has lots of crazy boosters/fans who'll fund collectives with piles of money.

No major is going to sit on its hands and watch its rivals outbid it for top prospects. There is no advantage for anybody--so why engage in it? It's stupid--the equivalent of a bunch of 40 horny, middle-aged men hoping to get a smile and a wiggle from a stripper if they stick a $100 bill in her G string. The collectives are just turning high-school kids into cynical money-grubbing mercenaries. That's what we want college football to be about? And half of them will transfer after a year or two anyway.

We and others can sue the NCAA in the hope of carrying on with offering NIL deals to prospects, but let's not naively think that it's going benefit us at the expense of all the other majors with their boosters and their collectives. It won't. Everybody wll just run around throwing money at kids for no reason other than their desperation to win football games.

I agree with this. It is not even how the NFL works. Not sure why folks think a bidding war for 18-year-olds is a good thing.

 

[GoodTimeVol]

It is a very gray area.

Are those that own and operate the collective also "boosters" under the NCAA definition of a "booster"? Are "boosters" donating money that in turn ends up supporting the university that they are considered a "booster" for? The answer to both of these is probably yes for all collectives associated with all schools BTW.

Was the unofficial visit a spur of the moment thing or discussed / planned as part of the activities that would occur while he was in Knoxville?

Was the individual who donated the private plane considered a "booster"? Did that individual know what said plane was being used for?

Really not sure why so many think this is a slam dunk for Tennessee - in my opinion this is actually testing the loopholes that exist between NIL and the NCAA recruiting rules.

Also it doesn’t matter what the ncaa considers a “booster” that doesn’t hold up in court…a private business can do what they want in the scope of state and federal laws that are set up to protect them…

 

[GoodTimeVol]

I agree with this. It is not even how the NFL works. Not sure why folks think a bidding war for 18-year-olds is a good thing.

Don’t agree with him lol he has no understanding of antitrust laws…

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

It is a thin line with some of the collectives. They are more than likely receiving contributions and have connections with individuals that are boosters and contribute to the university programs.

If they are truly independent and serve to connect players with companies / organizations that will provide $$ to the player for the NIL regardless of where they choose to attend college. That is okay. But if any connections are back to a university that is going to be an issue and will violate the other bylaw.

Many of the players when they transfer end up connecting with collectives that are tightly coupled with a university.

This may not be as simple as many think to unwind and it could backfire on UT.

Doesn't matter. Those bylaws are an illegal restraint of trade.

 

[camp_steveo]

I still have one question: Did Nico visit with the UT coaches while he was in Knoxville for the 'business meeting' with Spyer? Seems this is part of the NCAA's infractions claim of it being an unofficial recruiting visit, thus the private plane trip. Just trying to understand where the NCAA would consider they have a case.

So, if he got to Knoxville on a private plane paid for by Spyre, he can't take an unofficial visit while in town? That seems questionable.

 

[volfan102455]

There are no loopholes the ncaa has no antitrust provisions…this is a slam dunk case

The whole situation doesn't play well in the court of public perception which is why in my opinion we have seen the comments from UT officials and why the verbiage is worded like they it is. No one is denying the events that played out. You have one party saying ... it was a recruiting infraction; you have the other saying ... no it wasn't and if it is lots of universities are guilty with how NIL is being handled.

I have taken the time in the last few days to read various opinions. The sticking point seems to be the possible violation with the unofficial visit given that the plane may have been owned by a booster. Why even take the risk? Who thought it was a good idea to allow the unofficial visit given the transportation may have been donated by a booster?

Not saying all i's were not dotted and t's were not crossed - courts will figure that out - but it will regardless of what happens be conceived differently.

 

[camp_steveo]

I agree with this. It is not even how the NFL works. Not sure why folks think a bidding war for 18-year-olds is a good thing.

What does his age have to do with it?

18 is adulthood. Even if he was 17, his parents can co-sign his contract.

 

[OrangeVolMan]

It is a very gray area.

Are those that own and operate the collective also "boosters" under the NCAA definition of a "booster"? Are "boosters" donating money that in turn ends up supporting the university that they are considered a "booster" for? The answer to both of these is probably yes for all collectives associated with all schools BTW.

Was the unofficial visit a spur of the moment thing or discussed / planned as part of the activities that would occur while he was in Knoxville?

Was the individual who donated the private plane considered a "booster"? Did that individual know what said plane was being used for?

Really not sure why so many think this is a slam dunk for Tennessee - in my opinion this is actually testing the loopholes that exist between NIL and the NCAA recruiting rules.

I think you answered your own question on why this is a slam dunk. Almost all donors to NIL funds are “boosters”. Most schools require a donation to buy season tickets so they are boosters. These same people are making donations to NIL funds. Under your reasoning all NIL groups would then be boosters. If that is the case every school would be violating the NCAA booster rule. It’s a slam dunk for UT because the NCAA is not going to go after every P4 school.

 

[LWSVOL]

Yeah, this is kind of the ticky tacky stuff that people hated about NCAA rules. Why does type of flight matter and why can't you fly someone to your campus? Does that really give a school a massive advantage? Heck, I have seen schools pay for flights for students for Academic purposes like my sister.

private plane would be paid for by a booster... that has always been a no-no. If they would have allowed that then buying meals and paying for hotel rooms as a booster would be ok. Which recruits would love to have someone do on unofficial visits. I'm not sure the point of contention with Nico was an official or unofficial visit. Unofficial the recruits pay all expenses.