So you want to fire Fulmer?

[sjt18]

We are bottom feeding right now, so its not really that big of a risk.
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Unless they cancelled the rest of the season, that's premature. Even if they don't finish well, there are those (not me) who will point to the fact that UT is only one year removed from winning the SECE and playing the eventual NC to a one score loss.

 

[volfan2024]

They're coming to play for the University of Tennessee. Not Fulmer.

TRUE! Tennessee was playing football long before Fulmer came here.

 

[volfan2024]

It's obvious the recruiting has slipped over the past few years. Lately, it's been a yo-yo and then half the highly rated prospects Fulmer does get never seem to find the field. Sorry, but I am not going to change my mind on what's best for the future of the program because of the commits of some JC guy (Why isn't he honoring his commitment to Texas Tech? Do they even want him? Smells fishy.) and some kid who is over two years from graduating high school. UTK had no trouble recruiting nationally from the days of the General forward with the obvious hiccup under Battle. Personally, I think a younger more motivated staff could get the Vols back in some states like AL and GA.

Not to mention the players that come to play here because they have family ties(legacies) to the universitiy.

 

[sjt18]

We've talked about this before but, it's not about home state talent, it's the coach. If the coaching is poor the in state recruits will go elsewhere.

The problem is that none of the states close enough for this to count for very much have schools with poor coaching: NC, SC, KY, AR, MS, LA, TX, OK, OH, VA, GA, AL, FL... Which of those states do not have quality coaches at their flagship school(s)?

LSU went from '88 to '95 with no bowl games and '88 to '01 with no SEC titles, didn't matter about instate talent because the coaching was poor.

Exactly! But the talent with a lifelong desire to play at LSU was still there.

Why? Poor coaching, the instate talent went elsewhere because of coaching. With Dubose, Fran and Shula it didn't matter they had more instate talent than UT.

What aren't you getting? My whole point was that the instate talent would continue to go to those schools... and largely did... even through a succession of bad coaches. When a good coach arrived, the talent was there waiting and very willing to sign on.

UT's next coach will either be a smooth transition or else will have to come out of the blocks beating everyone around. If that doesn't happen, they aren't going to raid the states I listed for top shelf talent. There isn't enough top shelf talent in TN to keep the program viable for the guy who follows the first replacement.

Every school is at equal risk regardless of instate talent.

Sorry but that's simply not supported by reality. Georgia kids grow up dreaming of playing for the Dawgs. Some of them might go elsewhere when a bad coach is in place but all other things being equal... that's their first choice. Tn's lack of instate talent leaves them completely dependent on drawing nationally. Dip or have a perception that a new coach won't survive... that hope goes by the way side.

If you get the right guy he will get talent. If you pick the wrong guy like 'Bama and LSU for so many years it will set your program back even if you have more talent in state than Tennessee.

You are missing the point though you keep shooting all around it. LSU now gets out of state talent to compliment instate talent... but that wasn't required for a new coach to come in and turn the program around. There were enough loyal Tigers from instate to do it. If UT loses its national credibility with its first hire, they simply don't have that home base.

Fulmer's replacement has to be a home run choice.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

There are several coaches who we could hire that can out recruit Fulmer. Fulmer has dig himself in a hole with recruiting based on his performance over the past 4 years... even if he is a very good recruiter.. he's never going to get the talent he was once getting due to other schools in the SEC with big name coaches that are great recruiters and the fact the players see he can't coach with crap.

 

[utmba93]

Unless they cancelled the rest of the season, that's premature. Even if they don't finish well, there are those (not me) who will point to the fact that UT is only one year removed from winning the SECE and playing the eventual NC to a one score loss.

One play loss...pick 6 from Ainge.

Still... it's time to explore the options, but I agree with your point that we could do worse than CPF. I think we need his help to do better.

 

[grivira]

They're coming to play for the University of Tennessee. Not Fulmer.

Great point. It reduces our hesitation to fire him or force him to retire.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

Don't get me wrong - there are some that play for the university and the name but they want Fulmer here... a lot of them will change their commit if he's fired at the end of the year because they came to play for him and his staff. But that's how it is in every coaching change so there's no avoiding it.

 

[Zeppelin18241]

Crapton shouldnt count.. he's the biggest QB bust ever..

we need to get a high four star QB, or 5 star, that is really accurate..
he would EXCELL in Clawson's passing system..

It would be nice to have a 4 or 5 star qb, but Sam Bradford, Chase Daniel, and Cult Mccoy were all three star qbs. Whos to say that Petty won't turn out like them?

 

[vols kick balls]

Unless they cancelled the rest of the season, that's premature. Even if they don't finish well, there are those (not me) who will point to the fact that UT is only one year removed from winning the SECE and playing the eventual NC to a one score loss.

One play loss...pick 6 from Ainge.

Still... it's time to explore the options, but I agree with your point that we could do worse than CPF. I think we need his help to do better.

There it is. The moral victory. We are officially Vandy.

 

[Volsguy12]

Fire Fulmer, and get a big name in here that is a likable guy. We'll be alright.

 

[JZVOL]

sj you're right, every kid in states with great talent dream of going to their home state school.

But I'm confused as to why UT has lost many big name instate recruits over the past several years?

They should be flocking to UT since CPF is the only man that can recruit to UT, UT is good most years and everyone in the state dreams of playing for UT.

 

[TennFan]

Crapton shouldnt count.. he's the biggest QB bust ever..

we need to get a high four star QB, or 5 star, that is really accurate..
he would EXCELL in Clawson's passing system..

I agree-Crampton isn't decent material. We need a top 5 QB in the country. We need another Manning. Even though Peyton didn't win the Big One -the Vols were consistent. The SEC , in my opinion, is the toughest football conference in the nation. We beat up on each other. If a team goes through the entire season with no more than 1 loss it's out standing-undefeated and they play for the NC game. Last year was a different story-LSU had 2 losses (I think).

 

[sjt18]

sj you're right, every kid in states with great talent dream of going to their home state school.

But I'm confused as to why UT has lost many big name instate recruits over the past several years?

I think there are number of reasons. One of those reasons IS Fulmer. Because the state doesn't routinely have great talent and has very few football mill HS's, the suggestion has been made that UT doesn't spend alot of energy on developing relationships at instate HS's. Some good instate players like the kid from Alcoa now at UK feel snubbed... and probably were.

Another is that there is more talent in west Tn and several good schools closer to them than UT.

A caveat is that UT will routinely get about the same % of the state's top 10 players as UGA or UF do in their respective states. However about 5 or 6 of the best players in Tn will get 4-5* while you never see a 3* in the top 20 of GA or FL.

IOW's, you don't notice when UF or UGA or in many years even Bama loses a 4* instate player. There's another one in line behind them.

They should be flocking to UT since CPF is the only man that can recruit to UT, UT is good most years and everyone in the state dreams of playing for UT.

Rex posted an article about a North Cobb kid today. He openly admitted he was just waiting for UGA to offer. Sentimore waited a long time for LSU to offer. Those guys are 4*. UT offers EVERY instate 4*. They can't afford to pass on any of them for any reason. Hood and a LB that committed to Ole Miss earlier in the year are good examples of kids that wanted to go to UT but didn't get offers. Both were 3* who apparently had issues.

I guess I still haven't stated it clearly enough. In a state with 25 4-5* players each year like GA, enough of them will be diehard UGA fans to sustain them talent wise through bad coaches. FL produces over 40 per year. AL produces around 15. LA about the same or a little more.

Tn usually has about 5. The most over the past 6 years or so has been 10 (Donald/Walker class) and UT got 5 of them I think.

 

[sjt18]

I agree-Crampton isn't decent material. We need a top 5 QB in the country. We need another Manning.

Jonathan Crompton was the #2 pro-style QB in his class.

Call the kid by his name. He doesn't deserve the contempt... he didn't ruin your football season on purpose. I'm sure if he'd known how much more important football success was to you than him then he would have done much better.

Seriously, why be a jerk toward someone whose dreams have been smashed?

 

[JZVOL]

Jonathan Crompton was the #2 pro-style QB in his class.

Call the kid by his name. He doesn't deserve the contempt... he didn't ruin your football season on purpose. I'm sure if he'd known how much more important football success was to you than him then he would have done much better.

Seriously, why be a jerk toward someone whose dreams have been smashed?

Well said. I'm sick of people thinking they are clever by calling him Crapton.

 

[dantheman617]

We are still getting our butts kicked according to rivals..look at all the SEC teams ahead of us....

 

[JZVOL]

I think there are number of reasons. One of those reasons IS Fulmer. Because the state doesn't routinely have great talent and has very few football mill HS's, the suggestion has been made that UT doesn't spend alot of energy on developing relationships at instate HS's. Some good instate players like the kid from Alcoa now at UK feel snubbed... and probably were.

Another is that there is more talent in west Tn and several good schools closer to them than UT.

A caveat is that UT will routinely get about the same % of the state's top 10 players as UGA or UF do in their respective states. However about 5 or 6 of the best players in Tn will get 4-5* while you never see a 3* in the top 20 of GA or FL.

IOW's, you don't notice when UF or UGA or in many years even Bama loses a 4* instate player. There's another one in line behind them.



Rex posted an article about a North Cobb kid today. He openly admitted he was just waiting for UGA to offer. Sentimore waited a long time for LSU to offer. Those guys are 4*. UT offers EVERY instate 4*. They can't afford to pass on any of them for any reason. Hood and a LB that committed to Ole Miss earlier in the year are good examples of kids that wanted to go to UT but didn't get offers. Both were 3* who apparently had issues.

I guess I still haven't stated it clearly enough. In a state with 25 4-5* players each year like GA, enough of them will be diehard UGA fans to sustain them talent wise through bad coaches. FL produces over 40 per year. AL produces around 15. LA about the same or a little more.

Tn usually has about 5. The most over the past 6 years or so has been 10 (Donald/Walker class) and UT got 5 of them I think.

I guess what I don't understand is you saying the schools like GA have enough diehards to sustain them through bad coaches.

If any school gets the wrong coach they will fall back regardless of how many instate kids like the state school.

LSU got it wrong for years, so what if they had instate talent, they either did nothing with it or the kids went to other schools.

Southern Cal had thin years and it didn't matter that Cali has more instate talent than UT.

Every school takes a risk when they fire a coach.

UT is at no greater risk than any other school and history proves that.

 

[VOLGRAD2006]

yeah if you say Cr*pton you will get a special message from the mods warning you. about how its not his name. hopefully you dont get a warning from them for typing cr*pton

 

[coach31]

The problem is that none of the states close enough for this to count for very much have schools with poor coaching: NC, SC, KY, AR, MS, LA, TX, OK, OH, VA, GA, AL, FL... Which of those states do not have quality coaches at their flagship school(s)?

Ole Miss, Virginia.

 

[Cartervol]

Would i like to fire fulmer? Yeah if i had the power he would have been gone right after the 2001 championship game choke. Phil bringing in 4 and 5 star players is nothing new. They seem to get lost on the sidelines alot.