Sobering facts

#1
T

therealUT

Rational Thought Allowed?
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#1
The US provides 50% of all food aid to the world. The EU only provides 10%.

30,000 children under 5 die every day due to malnourishment and treatable diseases like dysentary, TB, measles, etc.

The world population is 6.4B, of which 860M are chronically malnourished.

2B are micro-nutrient deficient. They lack vitamin A, iron, iodine, and zinc.

Half the world's population lack one or more of the following: clean water, sanitary sewer, 2 meals per day, power on demand, health care/medicine, and/or schooling.

The US FoodAid budget is only $1.2B/year. The US domestic food stamp and WIC program account for over $30B/year.
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Living in America is a blessing and a priviledge that very few of us worked to earn.
 
#5
#5
Here is a letter for those who might be interested:
After my last visit to Africa three years ago I worked hard to get a Congressional Delegation to visit Eastern Africa to witness the success/impact of US food aid programs (contrary to popular belief).
My argument to congressman and to this Administration is that the US does not have a more powerful tool than food aid to demonstrate the compassion and goodwill of the American people to the people most at risk in the world. I finally convinced Congressman Jerry Moran, KS-1, to put a group of 4 representatives together to visit Africa. They just returned from that trip and below is an article written by Congressman McGovern. He mentions holding a baby in the Missions of Charity orphanage in Addis Ababa (a Mother Theresa orphanage and mission). When I visited that same mission, Sister asked me if I wanted to enter a ward full of dying children. She said the kids in this ward will never leave the room again alive. I swallowed hard and said yes. When we entered the room children reached out to touch me and I'm ashamed to say that my first reaction was to withdraw my hand in fear on contracting whatever the terrible diseases were that afflicted these little angels.
Fortunately that fear passed quickly as these kids hungered for an embrace and a warm touch.Sister explained to the children that my colleagues and I "were the men that provided their food" and the kids immediately broke out in a song of thanks to us. Needless to say, there were tears streaming down my face and the faces of the other food company executives with me (Cargill, ADM and Bunge). We knew we were going back to a five star hotel for a steak dinner and a good sleep and that we would return, business class, to our beautiful homes, manicured yards and air conditioned offices.
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#6
#6
You almost have to go visit somewhere else for awhile to appreciate how well Americans have it. I spent a couple of weeks in Costa Rica a few years ago -- a relatively well-off country, all things considering -- and when I got back the largess of America almost seemed cartoonish in comparison. We are all very lucky to live here.
 
#8
#8
And the benefit of living in this country? Even those who mooch off the system or just do absolutely nothing are just as much a citizen as anyone else. God bless us all.
 
#9
#9
Not exactly sure I would categorize that as a benefit...unless I was one of those mooches:ph34r:
 
#10
#10
Well meaning we have the ability to do as we choose and please as opposed to having our resources pooled in a strict socialist or even communist nation. I'd say having the ability to choose your course of life and pursuit of happiness is a benefit.
 
#11
#11
therealUT said:
Living in America is a blessing and a priviledge that very few of us worked to earn.
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Amen. I read in an editorial today that the average unskilled immigrant household in the Mexican Border states receives on average $32k a year in government benefit (Food, Housing, Medical), while contributing (once again, on average) $10k a year. So basically, jump the border, have a child on US Soil at an American Hospital (they cannot deny treatment, so you're guaranteed basic care, regardless of your possession of insurance, or ability to pay otherwise), and welcome to the land of milk and honey. We will gladly support you, so long as you contribute $1 in income tax for every $3 we give you in handout aid.

I guess it's my parents fault for giving me a work ethic, whereas i'd be more secure in my lifestyle and earning condition if i milked the system.
 
#12
#12
Without looking into any of the figures, beyond what you have provided, I would have to question the editorial. The average immigrant family pays $10K into the system? Is that a combination of FICA, property, state, etc.? That would be greater than 33% paid in taxes if that family brought in $30K annually? I doubt the average immigrant Mexican household in the border states pulls in $30K annually. I would peg that number closer to $15K-$20K. This would mean they hand over anywhere from 50%-67% of their income to the state.

Compare that number to American Citizens who receive food stamps, WIC, welfare checks, and other handouts. Our Citizens pay nothing more than sales taxes in to the state. They receive rebates for the FICA and the property taxes they pay, as well as any state taxes.

That being said, I have a hard time condemning anyone for getting back a large sum of money from a government that previously confiscated 2/3 of their wealth.
 
#13
#13
JTrainDavis said:
I guess it's my parents fault for giving me a work ethic, whereas i'd be more secure in my lifestyle and earning condition if i milked the system.
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Now we start to get to the crux of the issue. There is no doubt that a society should help those that cannot help themselves and minimize barriers to advancement for those that can help themselves. We've clearly moved beyond that...
 
#14
#14
therealUT said:
Without looking into any of the figures, beyond what you have provided, I would have to question the editorial. The average immigrant family pays $10K into the system? Is that a combination of FICA, property, state, etc.? That would be greater than 33% paid in taxes if that family brought in $30K annually? I doubt the average immigrant Mexican household in the border states pulls in $30K annually. I would peg that number closer to $15K-$20K. This would mean they hand over anywhere from 50%-67% of their income to the state.

Compare that number to American Citizens who receive food stamps, WIC, welfare checks, and other handouts. Our Citizens pay nothing more than sales taxes in to the state. They receive rebates for the FICA and the property taxes they pay, as well as any state taxes.

That being said, I have a hard time condemning anyone for getting back a large sum of money from a government that previously confiscated 2/3 of their wealth.
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I am assuming this is income tax...i am not on a call and ask questions basis with the columnist, so i cannot answer your attempts to make me back up facts which i cannot prove true or otherwise. I also believe that those who get their "guvmit cheese" every month for years on end are worse than those who come here to work hard and make life better for themselves and their families.

But when you have the situation as it is now, when 1/4 of violent criminals in prison are not even Americans, you cannot lie and say that there is not a problem...i understand your point against the statistics i cited, but as i said, i cited them, not formulated them. I have found you to be an intellectual who generally proves a point, therealUT, only once was i upset with your commentary....

Closing, i was citing, not speaking as the entire truth
 
#16
#16
I understand that you did not formulate the numbers. I also understand the the author of the editorial most likely masked their formulation. I am simply stating my feelings if those numbers are correct.
 
#17
#17
therealUT said:
I understand that you did not formulate the numbers. I also understand the the author of the editorial most likely masked their formulation. I am simply stating my feelings if those numbers are correct.
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One writing an editorial on such a tender issue will more likely present the numbers that benefit their position, i guess...though, as someone who does (pro-illegal phrase)"A Job American's won't do", i just dread when people can come here and get something for nothing, i am a combat veteran, work 6 days a week, buy my own food, and send the bank $1500 monthly for my home, it gets me real mad when someone can come here, work under the table, and have themselves and their families fed, housed, clothed, and schooled, for pennies on the dollar.
 
#18
#18
JTrainDavis said:
One writing an editorial on such a tender issue will more likely present the numbers that benefit their position, i guess...though, as someone who does (pro-illegal phrase)"A Job American's won't do", i just dread when people can come here and get something for nothing, i am a combat veteran, work 6 days a week, buy my own food, and send the bank $1500 monthly for my home, it gets me real mad when someone can come here, work under the table, and have themselves and their families fed, housed, clothed, and schooled, for pennies on the dollar.
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It makes me mad also. However, I think we see two different solutions. I believe yours is to get rid of these people. Mine is to get rid of their incentives to come up (abolish the welfare system, abolish the minimum wage, etc.)
 
#19
#19
The federal government spends $30B a year on food stamps and WIC. $30B to people who have grown up with the opportunities afforded to all Americans (as well as color TVs, cell phones, microwaves, etc.) Yet, we only spend $1.8B to feed truly starving people who have never had opportunity in their lifetime.
 
#20
#20
therealUT said:
It makes me mad also. However, I think we see two different solutions. I believe yours is to get rid of these people. Mine is to get rid of their incentives to come up (abolish the welfare system, abolish the minimum wage, etc.)
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The Liberals (forgive my grouping) think that an increased minimum wage will help the poor. They don't realize that raising the minimum wage to, say, $8, will only raise the bottom line for basic needs, say milk, bread, heating oil. The bar is raised slightly at the bottom end, but the guy who works in a factory making $12/hour isnt going to get the same raise that the minimum wage worker gets with an increase. So the "poverty line" stays the same on the bottom end, but lower middle class becomes the upper end of the "poverty grouping".
 
#22
#22
JTrainDavis said:
The Liberals (forgive my grouping) think that an increased minimum wage will help the poor. They don't realize that raising the minimum wage to, say, $8, will only raise the bottom line for basic needs, say milk, bread, heating oil. The bar is raised slightly at the bottom end, but the guy who works in a factory making $12/hour isnt going to get the same raise that the minimum wage worker gets with an increase. So the "poverty line" stays the same on the bottom end, but lower middle class becomes the upper end of the "poverty grouping".
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So true.
 
#23
#23
therealUT said:
It makes me mad also. However, I think we see two different solutions. I believe yours is to get rid of these people. Mine is to get rid of their incentives to come up (abolish the welfare system, abolish the minimum wage, etc.)
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I agree for the most part. Minimum wage being abolished could be a great thing (setup a self sustaining steady payroll for jobs) or cause the pay to go up (like the 8 dollars some want).

I believe it will be the former myself if it ever were to happen though
 
#24
#24
JTrainDavis said:
it gets me real mad when someone can come here, work under the table, and have themselves and their families fed, housed, clothed, and schooled, for pennies on the dollar.
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Keep in mind that there are probably just as many American citizens who do the same thing. Make sure the outrage is actually towards ALL who cheat you and I and not just one group.
 
#25
#25
justingroves said:
I agree for the most part. Minimum wage being abolished could be a great thing (setup a self sustaining steady payroll for jobs) or cause the pay to go up (like the 8 dollars some want).

I believe it will be the latter myself if it ever were to happen though
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I would have to believe that the abolishment of the minimum wage would lead to an overall drop in the price of common goods and in wages (due to union contracts being tied to the greater of some calculation of minimum wage, or some extremely low wage figure...most union contracts would lag in catching up to the abolishment of the minimum wage. This is why unions are so against the prospect.)
 
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