Soccer equal pay ruling

#26
#26
Fun coupon VOL said:
Did you read my post directly before yours?
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Yes, but it was a goalpost move from your previous argument. The revenue gap is not as big as you might think over the last couple of years because the USMNT sucks.

Now, the specific argument that Rapinoe and some of the others make for higher pay is stupid ("We play for our national team too, so we should make what they make").
 
#27
#27
05_never_again said:
Yes, but it was a goalpost move from your previous argument. The revenue gap is not as big as you might think over the last couple of years because the USMNT sucks.

Now, the specific argument that Rapinoe and some of the others make for higher pay is stupid ("We play for our national team too, so we should make what they make").
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It wasn’t a goal post move. I went into specifics for why they don’t generate the revenue the men do.

Exactly. The revenue gap is so close because the men’s team has sucked the last 3 or 4 years yet they out produce the women by $185k per game. If the men were winning, the revenue gap would be 1.5 or greater to 1.
 
#28
#28
Fun coupon VOL said:
It wasn’t a goal post move. I went into specifics for why they don’t generate the revenue the men do.

Exactly. The revenue gap is so close because the men’s team has sucked the last 3 or 4 years yet they out produce the women by $185k per game. If the men were winning, the revenue gap would be 1.5 or greater to 1.
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I didn't say there was no revenue gap. I said it isn't as big as you might think, or as big as it used to be, because the men have sucked. Insofar as that persists, the women have an argument about wanting more pay relative to the men.

They do themselves a disservice when they make claims like "Well, we're national team players too, so we should make salaries like the men." However, they can still be on the right path, but for the wrong reason.
 
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#29
#29
05_never_again said:
I didn't say there was no revenue gap. I said it isn't as big as you might think, or as big as it used to be, because the men have sucked. Insofar as that persists, the women have an argument about wanting more pay relative to the men.

They do themselves a disservice when they make claims like "Well, we're national team players too, so we should make salaries like the men." However, they can still be on the right path, but for the wrong reason.
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How dare you try to see both sides and arrive at a reasoned conclusion somewhere in the middle.
 
#30
#30
n_huffhines said:
How dare you try to see both sides and arrive at a reasoned conclusion somewhere in the middle.
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The ladies need to work on their line of argumentation though. They have a decent argument to make, which is purely an economic one.

However, some of them jumped on the "We do the same thing as the men, yet make less...gender wage gap!" SJW train, which is a really easy argument to dismiss.
 
#31
#31
05_never_again said:
The ladies need to work on their line of argumentation though. They have a decent argument to make, which is purely an economic one.

However, some of them jumped on the "We do the same thing as the men, yet make less...gender wage gap!" SJW train, which is a really easy argument to dismiss.
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For sure, I've never accused them of making valid arguments. Athletes often don't know how to make a good case for anything. They need to be pushing the economics and the PR angles. Also, it's pretty disappointing that they tried to cherry pick years where the revenue skewed greatly in their favor, relative to what's normal...like nobody was going to see through that, FFS.
 
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#33
#33
#34
#34
n_huffhines said:
Talk about cherry-picking stats, this is about USWNT and USMNT, not worldwide soccer. Fkn hacks. The women are not going after FIFA, they are going after US soccer. They generate way more revenue than other women's national teams so that entire article is irrelevant.

It's amazing to me how few people can be honest about this conversation.
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Be honest? I gave you the numbers and you skirted over that. The women do not draw the attention from sponsors that the men do, which is why networks have to bundle both together. Yippy, you generated more gate revenue(barely) while playing 5 games more a year over the past four years. They are literally looking at a third of the pie chart and trying to say look we don’t get paid what we should without taking into account sponsorship and broadcasting.

I hope the US caves and the US soccer federation goes bankrupt because of how stupid this is from a numbers perspective. If the US was smart they would break everything in regards to sponsorship and broadcasting rights down by men vs women To show what the difference is.

Also, the FIFA numbers go to show the overall perception of women’s sports. They are not equal and never will be(except for gymnastics).
 
#35
#35
n_huffhines said:
Talk about cherry-picking stats, this is about USWNT and USMNT, not worldwide soccer. Fkn hacks. The women are not going after FIFA, they are going after US soccer. They generate way more revenue than other women's national teams so that entire article is irrelevant.

It's amazing to me how few people can be honest about this conversation.
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So what are they going to do when US soccer says no? I'm just curious?
 
#36
#36
Volsfaninva917 said:
So what are they going to do when US soccer says no? I'm just curious?
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I guess wait and see? Why do you think US soccer is going to say "no"?

It should be so obvious to everyone that US soccer should pay the men and women the same % of whatever revenue their teams generate, but everybody just wants pick a side and say the women get nothing or everything. It's so stupid, but this is American politics.
 
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#37
#37
Fun coupon VOL said:
Be honest? I gave you the numbers and you skirted over that. The women do not draw the attention from sponsors that the men do, which is why networks have to bundle both together. Yippy, you generated more gate revenue(barely) while playing 5 games more a year over the past four years. They are literally looking at a third of the pie chart and trying to say look we don’t get paid what we should without taking into account sponsorship and broadcasting.

I hope the US caves and the US soccer federation goes bankrupt because of how stupid this is from a numbers perspective. If the US was smart they would break everything in regards to sponsorship and broadcasting rights down by men vs women To show what the difference is.

Also, the FIFA numbers go to show the overall perception of women’s sports. They are not equal and never will be(except for gymnastics).
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Are you against paying the women the same % of revenue they earn, compared to the men?
 
#38
#38
n_huffhines said:
Are you against paying the women the same % of revenue they earn, compared to the men?
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Sure based on them not requiring broadcasting and sponsorship to be lumped together for the men and women’s team. I bet the discrepancy would be worse if they did that.
 
#39
#39
We dominate the World Cup. If it ain’t broke why fix it? Perhaps if they want to get paid more they would choose to do something else?

Would be hilarious if US Soccer came back and said that they now acknowledge the men and women should get paid the same, and given the men’s poor performances, we’ve decided to dock their pay to make them equal w the women.
 
#40
#40
n_huffhines said:
I guess wait and see? Why do you think US soccer is going to say "no"?

It should be so obvious to everyone that US soccer should pay the men and women the same % of whatever revenue their teams generate, but everybody just wants pick a side and say the women get nothing or everything. It's so stupid, but this is American politics.
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The women's team made approximately 230K per player for the World Cup, that's with bonuses. How much do the men make?
 
#41
#41
Volsfaninva917 said:
The women's team made approximately 230K per player for the World Cup, that's with bonuses. How much do the men make?
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That doesn't matter to the conversation because that involves FIFA money from the WC. USWNT is beefing about their cut from US soccer, not FIFA.
 
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#42
#42
Volsfaninva917 said:
The women's team made approximately 230K per player for the World Cup, that's with bonuses. How much do the men make?
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Pretty sure men play basically on incentives only if they win (then they share gate/merch commissions) and women get an actual salary as well as incentives and they have their awful league subsidized. Don't know the exact numbers though.
 
#44
#44
n_huffhines said:
That doesn't matter to the conversation because that involves FIFA money from the WC. USWNT is beefing about their cut from US soccer, not FIFA.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...han-men/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4d5bad0b71a8

According to this article, a US womens national player has a base salary of 100K plus they can earn bonuses. A player on the US mens national team does not have a base salary and is only paid per match, that also is based on performance. A mens player will earn 5K per match, so essentially like the NFL they get a game check and they to can earn bonuses.

Do women's "friendly's" sell out like the men do? I'm curious because I don't know, if they do not draw the attendance that the men do then I would say they are being treated pretty fairly. I understand the training and long hours but you are being paid a base salary of 100K, there are minor league baseball players that make 50 dollars a week (see the Pecos League) or if you want to talk affiliated baseball a Single A player makes about 800 a month before club house dues, should they strike for equal pay?

I'm just curious how much more they want? They get a base 100K a year salary plus bonuses while the mens pay is based strictly on performance
 
#45
#45
I feel like everyone should get paid a %of what they bring in. I feel like that’s a very simple and easy solution.

Like Huff said though, I don’t even know the actual numbers because both sides cherry pick and frame numbers to suit their argument.
 
#50
#50


Interesting tweet thread for those that are interested in learning more about the whole situation. Found this helpful.
 
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