Social Security - your thoughts?

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You can call it a trust fund if you want to, but it was not set up like a trust fund, it does not work like a trust fund and there is nothing it but IOUs, as Cllnton said those bonds in this so called trust fund are not real assets, they are just "bags of sand"......

Lots of trust funds hold IOUs. They’re called bonds. The trustees have been investing the surplus in debt. US Treasuries.

The purpose of having the two trust funds is to segregate the funds from the rest of federal spending. If it was one pool then there wouldn’t be any “IOUs”.

 

[jmacvols1]

175 trillion? lol wut? over what time span?

thats more than our entire GDP, I am not sure how anything could possibly be underfunded that much.

Medicare and Social Security face $175 trillion shortfall, risking future generations

Medicare and Social Security are in big trouble as it is now underfunded by a staggering $175 trillion, according to a new report from the Treasury Department.

abcstlouis.com

“If you take up the entire economic output of every country on planet Earth, it's about $100 trillion,” he said. “The unfunded liability that U.S. taxpayers face over the next 75 years is $175 trillion.”

 

[jmacvols1]

Lots of trust funds hold IOUs. They’re called bonds. The trustees have been investing the surplus in debt. US Treasuries.

The purpose of having the two trust funds is to segregate the funds from the rest of federal spending. If it was one pool then there wouldn’t be any “IOUs”.

.....then lots of trust funds are worthless. The bonds being issued to the SS Administration are non-negotiable, they have as Clinton said no real assets value for they are worthless pieces of paper being kept in filing cabinets at the Bureau of Debt in WV.....they are 'bags of sand' that represent liability, a debt obligations, not assets.

Misleading the Public: How the Social Security Trust Fund Really Works

As political leaders debate how best to fix Social Security, many policymakers are focusing on the wrong issue. Their sole concern seems to be the date when the Social Security retirement and survivors trust fund will run out of its paper assets. This mistaken emphasis misses the fundamental...

www.heritage.org

"The Social Security trust fund is merely an accounting device filled with IOUs that future taxpayers must repay.

Why the Social Security Trust Fund Differs from Real Trust Funds.

Private-sector trust funds invest in real assets ranging from stocks and bonds to mortgages and other financial instruments. However, the Social Security trust funds are only "invested" in a special type of Treasury bond that can only be issued to and redeemed by the Social Security Administration. As the Congressional Research Service noted in a report on May 5, 1998:

When the government issues a bond to one of its own accounts, it hasn't purchased anything or established a claim against another entity or person. It is simply creating a form of IOU from one of its accounts to another.

According to the Office of Management and Budget under the Clinton Administration in 1999:

These [trust fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other trust fund expenditures--but only in a bookkeeping sense. These funds are not set up to be pension funds, like the funds of private pension plans. They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury, that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. [Emphasis added.]

In short, the Social Security trust fund is really only an accounting mechanism. The trust fund shows how much the government has borrowed from Social Security, but it does not provide any way to finance future benefits. The money to repay the IOUs will have to come from taxes (Ponzi scheme) that are being used today to pay for other government programs."

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

.....then lots of trust funds are worthless. The bonds being issued to the SS Administration are non-negotiable, they have as Clinton said no real assets value for they are worthless pieces of paper being kept in filing cabinets at the Bureau of Debt in WV.....they are 'bags of sand' that represent liability, a debt obligations, not assets.

Misleading the Public: How the Social Security Trust Fund Really Works

As political leaders debate how best to fix Social Security, many policymakers are focusing on the wrong issue. Their sole concern seems to be the date when the Social Security retirement and survivors trust fund will run out of its paper assets. This mistaken emphasis misses the fundamental...

www.heritage.org

"The Social Security trust fund is merely an accounting device filled with IOUs that future taxpayers must repay.

Why the Social Security Trust Fund Differs from Real Trust Funds.

Private-sector trust funds invest in real assets ranging from stocks and bonds to mortgages and other financial instruments. However, the Social Security trust funds are only "invested" in a special type of Treasury bond that can only be issued to and redeemed by the Social Security Administration. As the Congressional Research Service noted in a report on May 5, 1998:


According to the Office of Management and Budget under the Clinton Administration in 1999:


In short, the Social Security trust fund is really only an accounting mechanism. The trust fund shows how much the government has borrowed from Social Security, but it does not provide any way to finance future benefits. The money to repay the IOUs will have to come from taxes (Ponzi scheme) that are being used today to pay for other government programs."

90% of revenue to fund Social Security comes from the 6.2% (x2) payroll tax and about 10% from the interest on the past surpluses. If there weren’t the two trust funds then it would all be one pot of money as the 25 year old article written by a guy that’s been dead for 20 years is suggesting.

If anything, Social Security future shortfalls could partially or completely come from the general fund. Not the opposite as is being suggested. The SS trusts haven’t been funding other programs. Buying debt securities with the positive fund balances isn’t giving away trust fund assets.

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Payroll deductions are a (regressive) tax that supports a government run, social welfare program. SS is not a retirement account. I can’t opt out of federal income taxes for the percentage that goes to defense and just buy my own arsenal.

 

[Zues1]

SS, why not stay the course but have the program managed by a fiduciary.
5- 7 % return should be a no brainer.
Maybe I'm over simplifying this.

 

[C-south]

You aren’t investing for you, you’re investing for everyone else.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I bet that Viv and Elon target SS and Medicare. Two HUGE, bloated bureaucracies. They can’t do anything about interest on the debt and defense isn’t a good place to cut with so much world disorder. But as big as military spending is, they should be able to find a few tens of billions in savings.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

SS, why not stay the course but have the program managed by a fiduciary.
5- 7 % return should be a no brainer.
Maybe I'm over simplifying this.

The program is dependent on life long workers paying in with many dying off well before reaching even the breakeven threshold. They can’t even stay out of a fiscal deficit without opt outs. How could the program survive or be drastically shrunk without those funds?

The benefits are based on providing a safety net for the elderly, survivors, and those with disabilities. A 5-7% “return” to the SS tax payers isn’t part of the concept. The benefits are modified every year based on COLA adjustments.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I bet that Viv and Elon target SS and Medicare. Two HUGE, bloated bureaucracies. They can’t do anything about interest on the debt and defense isn’t a good place to cut with so much world disorder. But as big as military spending is, they should be able to find a few tens of billions in savings.

I'll be anxious to see how much they find in bridges to nowhere and shrimps on treadmills kind of stuff. Then there's 'gain of function' kinds of programs.

It will be a huge bonus if the unknown Faucis wind up in prison as a result as well.

MAGA take our country back.

 

[C-south]

I bet that Viv and Elon target SS and Medicare. Two HUGE, bloated bureaucracies. They can’t do anything about interest on the debt and defense isn’t a good place to cut with so much world disorder. But as big as military spending is, they should be able to find a few tens of billions in savings.

Touching either of these will be political suicide. They’ll have to pick battles somewhere else.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Touching either of these will be political suicide. They’ll have to pick battles somewhere else.

Cutting benefits or raising taxes is political suicide. Finding the waste should be something different. I’m not a big Twitter-X user, but I find it interesting that Elon cut 80% of the heads or payroll and it keeps on functioning.

It’s time to hold government employees more accountable. Working from home should have ended a year or two ago except in rare instances.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I bet that Viv and Elon target SS and Medicare. Two HUGE, bloated bureaucracies. They can’t do anything about interest on the debt and defense isn’t a good place to cut with so much world disorder. But as big as military spending is, they should be able to find a few tens of billions in savings.

They absolutely should cut defense spending while at the same time tackling the inefficient wasteful procurement process.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

They absolutely should cut defense spending while at the same time tackling the inefficient wasteful procurement process.

I’m not in favor of slashing the defense budget as long as China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran continue to be a-holes. But cutting waste and making the allies pay their fair share is agreeable.

Unfortunately there is that use it or lose it mentality with spending. Instead of having a highly efficient fiscal year, the excess gets spent to have a bigger base to get the percentage increase in the next year(s).

I wonder what Eisenhower was observing when he labeled it the military industrial complex. I guess the major contractors will always be on the government t*t on can’t weather year to year fluctuations in their revenues.

It’s interesting that Space-X has large defense contracts. That is going to be a PR issue. But there’s going to be so much outrage coming from Trump’s proposal to overhaul the federal government that Elon’s deals might get lost in the noise. Too bad that Dems can’t embrace a smaller federal government.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I bet that Viv and Elon target SS and Medicare. Two HUGE, bloated bureaucracies. They can’t do anything about interest on the debt and defense isn’t a good place to cut with so much world disorder. But as big as military spending is, they should be able to find a few tens of billions in savings.

There is more waste in defense than almost anywhere in the budget.

They dont have the political will to tackle it...

 

[NorthDallas40]

I’m not in favor of slashing the defense budget as long as China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran continue to be a-holes. But cutting waste and making the allies pay their fair share is agreeable.

Unfortunately there is that use it or lose it mentality with spending. Instead of having a highly efficient fiscal year, the excess gets spent to have a bigger base to get the percentage increase in the next year(s).

I wonder what Eisenhower was observing when he labeled it the military industrial complex. I guess the major contractors will always be on the government t*t on can’t weather year to year fluctuations in their revenues.

It’s interesting that Space-X has large defense contracts. That is going to be a PR issue. But there’s going to be so much outrage coming from Trump’s proposal to overhaul the federal government that Elon’s deals might get lost in the noise. Too bad that Dems can’t embrace a smaller federal government.

Eisenhower’s speech was a charge to government employees to hold the line, retain their ethics, and provide oversight on their supply base. He saw first hand in WW2 exactly what the might and riches were in the American industry base and with a pivot to a dedicated defense industry with deep pockets to grease the skids for their products. LEGAL lobbying is a fact of life now and isn’t going anywhere. So the government needs to maintain their neutral position. ILLEGAL lobbying is a different case. Fraud. Throw everyone in jail on both sides of the exchange.

 

[NorthDallas40]

There is more waste in defense than almost anywhere in the budget.

They aren’t in a hurry to take a pay cut to tackle it...

FYP. We get beat up yearly on the acceptable threshold for gifts. I had good friends that also worked at component suppliers and representatives that I couldn’t let buy me a ticket to a baseball game when it was clear it was based solidly on friendship. I’m guessing no politician or staffer has paid for a lunch or dinner in DC in the last 50+ years.

 

[jmacvols1]

You aren’t investing for you, you’re investing for everyone else.

....forced to "invest" for those who will not invest in their own future....

 

[jmacvols1]

Dems opted themselves out of SS when it first started as they opted themselves out of Obamacare. Why would Dems always want to opt themselves out of such great programs of their own creation?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

FYP. We get beat up yearly on the acceptable threshold for gifts. I had good friends that also worked at component suppliers and representatives that I couldn’t let buy me a ticket to a baseball game when it was clear it was based solidly on friendship. I’m guessing no politician or staffer has paid for a lunch or dinner in DC in the last 50+ years.

Every fed dept has a minimum of 25% they can cut with no impact to service....

Factor in contractors, Boeing, etc and 25% is probably conservative...

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Obviously the bigger the program, the more waste is going to exist. Defense is far more complicated than Social Security or Medicare/HHS. SS basically just distributes cash. Medicare just pays for health care. Medicare is attempting to shift a lot of what they do to insurance companies selling Advantage plan based coverage.

Most people don’t realize it, but when healthy people turn 65, it is at a minimum an additional $2,000/year tax on them. Those with large incomes pay about 3x as much. However, most individuals 65 and over will be running up large medical bills eventually.

There’s no telling what goes on with defense - they get to hide a lot more of their operation. How much accountability and transparency is there with programs like Area 51?

 

[TOUCHDOWN!!TN]

Do they still remove funds from the SS system, to routinely fund their own pork barrel ideas ? Say like paying for the EV credits?

 

[jmacvols1]

Do they still remove funds from the SS system, to routinely fund their own pork barrel ideas ? Say like paying for the EV credits?

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finance.yahoo.com

as far as I know the Treasury still borrows money from SSA and issues the SSA gov't bonds as IOUs. Then they try and convince you these bonds make up the SS 'trust fund' when they are just worthless IOUs kept in filing cabinets at the US Dept of Debt in Parkerburg, WV.

If you squandered $5000 of your money then wrote yourself an IOU for $5000 what's that IPU worth? nothing. The gov't issuing itself its own bonds is no different than you writing yourself an iou.....it's all worthless paper.

 

[jmacvols1]

Mike Lee
@BasedMikeLee

1. Of all the deceptive sales techniques the U.S. government has used on the American people, one of them—the Social Security Act—gets far too little attention. Buckle up because this is a wild ride.

2. In 1935, the American people were sold a bill of goods. They were told, “Pay into this system, and it'll be YOUR money for retirement.” Sounds great, right?

3. But here's where it gets juicy, in a really ugly way. Two years later, when the Supreme Court was considering the constitutionality of the Social Security Act, the government did a complete 180.

4. The government—through Assistant Attorney General Robert Jackson—argued in essence, “Oh no, this isn’t YOUR money at all. This is a TAX, and we can do whatever we want with it.” Classic bait and switch.

5. Let’s not forget the ruling in Helvering v. Davis, where the Supreme Court upheld the Social Security Act by embracing the government’s argument / admission that what people pay into Social Security is tax revenue—available to be used as Congress may direct—and not at all money belonging to those who paid it.

6. So, to summarize: the proponents of the Social Security Act told American workers that what they paid into the system would remain *their* money, not the government’s—to get Congress to pass it—and then told the courts the exact opposite when defending the Act’s constitutionality. The Supreme Court accepted the government’s argument, to the great detriment of the American people.

7. Now, let’s talk about what happens to “your money” once it’s in the government's hands. Spoiler alert: it’s not managed like your IRA or 401(k).

8. First of all, this money doesn’t sit in a nice, individual account with your name on it. No, it goes into a huge account called the “Social Security Trust Fund.”

9. But here’s the kicker—the government routinely raids this fund. Yes, you heard that right. They take “your money” and use it for whatever the current Congress deems “necessary.”

10. Every few years, there’s talk in Congress about “saving Social Security.” I’ve introduced and cosponsored a number of measures over the years that would fix it. But most in Congress show little desire to fix it, and are instead constantly looking for ways to “borrow” from it—with no plan to put it back.

11. And the returns? Forget about compound interest or stock market gains. Your “investment” in Social Security can give you a return lower than inflation.

12. If you had put the same amount into literally ANYTHING else—a mutual fund, real estate, even a savings account—you’d be better off by the time you reached retirement age, even if the government kept some of it!

13. Do the math: with Social Security, you’re looking at a return that's pathetic compared to market averages. It’s not even an investment; it's a tax.

14. And let’s talk about how this system is set up to fail. The demographic shift? More retirees, fewer workers. It’s almost fair to compare it to a Ponzi scheme that’s running out of new investors.

15. Every dollar you pay into Social Security, only to see it gobbled up by the government itself, is a dollar you can’t invest in your own future. It’s government dependency at its worst.

16. Remember, this isn’t just about retirement. It’s about independence, about controlling your own destiny. With Social Security, you control nothing.

17. The government promises you security but gives you dependency. It promises ownership but gives you a tax receipt.
......

21. It’s time we acknowledge the truth: Social Security as it now exists isn’t a retirement plan; it’s a tax plan with retirement benefits as an afterthought.
........

24. The history of the Social Security Act—which sadly must include the deceptive manner in which it was sold to the American people—is yet another reason why America’s century-long era of progressive government must be brought to a close.

==========================

My only comment to what Sen Lee posted is that the so called SS "trust fund" does not work like a true trust fund. The SS "trust fund" has no value, no assets for it is made up of worthless paper bonds (IOUs) kept in filing cabinets in Parkersburg WV