Something I Simply Don't Understand...

#26
#26
So you wouldn't consider looking at McRae over McBee or Maymon over Pearl? If they're killing the starters in practice, I guarantee you they're better than the guys playing ahead of them.


It's jmo, but it's practice. 2's do that often on all teams. They got nothing to lose and often out hustle the ones. I would take McRae over Cam 2 months ago. Maymon just gets too lost on D. He can put up a couple more points than SP, but if he gives up more on D it's a net loss. The 2's in practice were Golden, Bone, Mcrae, Pearl and Hall with Maymon playing some 4 and 5. I'd hate to see that lineup, though some of BP's have been worse.
 
#27
#27
There's a big difference between practice and in-game situations. Obviously, you have to look at the whole picture and practice is a part of that, but basing lineup choices on a single practice before the final regular season road game is effectively no different than basing them on who scored the most in the Rocky Top League
 
#28
#28
There's a big difference between practice and in-game situations. Obviously, you have to look at the whole picture and practice is a part of that, but basing lineup choices on a single practice before the final regular season road game is effectively no different than basing them on who scored the most in the Rocky Top League

One of the more ridiculous statements I've seen in a while.
 
#29
#29
We've already seen McRae play defense and his wild offensive game early on in the season. And we already know who Woolridge is.

We saw McRae a few months ago. What we know is we get absolutely nothing from the bench. Why not try something different and see if anything changes because it simply doesn't get much worse?
 
#30
#30
We saw McRae a few months ago. What we know is we get absolutely nothing from the bench. Why not try something different and see if anything changes because it simply doesn't get much worse?


I don't understand McRae, especially how we have struggled at the 3. I'm wondering if there have been other issues with him, outside of the bus incident.
 
#31
#31
My problem with what was said after practice was that most, if not all, players said that it was their most physical and brutal practice of the season. It was the last day of FEBRUARY! Whether it was someone lighting a fire under their arse or the players making an attempt to push each other in practice, it's total bs that you get that kind of comment this late in the season. This should be the time of year that we're gelling; not trying to figure out who wants to play or who can play for that matter. Hopefully the frustration from everyone involved gets taken out on SC and everyone else after that.
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#32
#32
We saw McRae a few months ago. What we know is we get absolutely nothing from the bench. Why not try something different and see if anything changes because it simply doesn't get much worse?

He may provide a little spark offensively, but he will also negate that and cause more damage with dumb plays. I remember him being lost defensively early in the season. He may have improved since then, but I really believe Pearl would've given him a shot if he has seen the improvement in practice. Apparently he has not. And if Pearl gave Maymon and Hall minutes after not playing for most of the season, I don't see why he wouldn't give McRae minutes if he liked what he saw in practice. But obviously he didn't.
 
#33
#33
One of the more ridiculous statements I've seen in a while.

That we shouldn't base lineup decisions on one practice? One that none of us likely witnessed, relying instead on very general and possibly throw-away second hand statements? I would think that would be pretty universally accepted.

Comparing a single practice's implications on the team to those of the Rocky Top League's record book? Since neither on their own is significant, it seems fairly apt to me.

Practice performance doesn't necessarily carry over into the games. UT football has had some practice legends - I think Kurston Biggers was one, David Yancey was another... I think I recall even seeing some glowing reports on Bo Hardegree.

With this team, it seems like I've seen good things about Swiper and McRae in practice, even before the rotation was shortened. Tony Passley was also pretty good in practice, if I recall. It just doesn't necessarily translate into success for whatever reason.
 
#34
#34
I may be mis-remembering this, but I could've sworn there was a quote from Pearl last year saying essentially you earn your playing time in practice. In fact it seems like it was one of the reasons given for sending Hall to the deep bench.
 
#35
#35
I may be mis-remembering this, but I could've sworn there was a quote from Pearl last year saying essentially you earn your playing time in practice. In fact it seems like it was one of the reasons given for sending Hall to the deep bench.

You are right on target - he has said it often. Yet...

What does it matter if those subs whipped the starters? That's really not saying anything since the starters only play decent every other game. And it may not have happened to begin with. It's not like CBP is above fudging the truth.
 
#36
#36
That we shouldn't base lineup decisions on one practice? One that none of us likely witnessed, relying instead on very general and possibly throw-away second hand statements? I would think that would be pretty universally accepted.

Comparing a single practice's implications on the team to those of the Rocky Top League's record book? Since neither on their own is significant, it seems fairly apt to me.

Practice performance doesn't necessarily carry over into the games. UT football has had some practice legends - I think Kurston Biggers was one, David Yancey was another... I think I recall even seeing some glowing reports on Bo Hardegree.

With this team, it seems like I've seen good things about Swiper and McRae in practice, even before the rotation was shortened. Tony Passley was also pretty good in practice, if I recall. It just doesn't necessarily translate into success for whatever reason.

The Rocky Top League is never significant. Practice reports are. This isn't the only practice report I've seen where the guys on the bench have handled the starters, so it's not like this day was some anomaly.

Also, ask yourself what Bo Hardegree and David Yancey had in common. They were hard-working, untalented guys. Sounds similar to Pearl and McBee to me. I'd much rather have the talented prospects that are beating the starters in practice on the floor than these guys.

We all bought the "Skylar and Pearl are just beating these guys out in practice" for a while. But after this, it's clear that practice doesn't determine playing time.
 
#37
#37
Practice should definitely be a component. However, with those four guys mentioned in the OP, I don't think we're missing out on any major contributors this season.

Maymon has gotten more time lately, and he hasn't really distinguished himself from the pack. Hall has looked useful at times lately and has also been getting more time (more than zero, granted), but he fouls at an insane rate, over 9 fouls per 40 minutes played, and I'm pretty sure none of those have been late to extend games - all legit. Woolridge has had some opportunities, but his modest successes are already a year removed. McRae was drawing some pretty nice reviews over the summer, but he didn't look ready for primetime during the OOC schedule when the rotation was largely decided - has anything changed?

At the same time, I agree that it wouldn't have hurt to have given these guys some extra chances given the general ineffectiveness of much of our roster. Unfortunately we aren't very good, so our games of late have been both close and of high importance for the season outlook - not much of an incentive to experiment.
 
#39
#39
That we shouldn't base lineup decisions on one practice? One that none of us likely witnessed, relying instead on very general and possibly throw-away second hand statements? I would think that would be pretty universally accepted.

Comparing a single practice's implications on the team to those of the Rocky Top League's record book? Since neither on their own is significant, it seems fairly apt to me.

Practice performance doesn't necessarily carry over into the games. UT football has had some practice legends - I think Kurston Biggers was one, David Yancey was another... I think I recall even seeing some glowing reports on Bo Hardegree.

With this team, it seems like I've seen good things about Swiper and McRae in practice, even before the rotation was shortened. Tony Passley was also pretty good in practice, if I recall. It just doesn't necessarily translate into success for whatever reason.

Fact is there have been several practices where the scout team took it to the starters. We will never know if it translates to success in games for players who never see the floor. Hard to beat out Cam with his current great play. No way McRae should even be given a chance.
 
#40
#40
Yeah if they took them to "jail" as Pearl said makes you wonder why they're not playing. Everything about this season is screwed up. It seems Pearl has lost it or went brain dead.
 
#41
#41
Yeah if they took them to "jail" as Pearl said makes you wonder why they're not playing. Everything about this season is screwed up. It seems Pearl has lost it or went brain dead.

Apparently his brain went dead during the first meeting with NCAA investigators. Seems he may have never recovered.
 
#42
#42
A few of my friends beat mcrae, hopson, swiper, and golden in a pick up game at t recs... that doesn't mean they should start over them.
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#44
#44
Fact is there have been several practices where the scout team took it to the starters. We will never know if it translates to success in games for players who never see the floor. Hard to beat out Cam with his current great play. No way McRae should even be given a chance.

Would you rather have a player who scores 10 points and has 5 turnovers and gives up 10 points on defense, or one who scores 5, has 5 assists, plays adequate defense, and gets a few rebounds or steals? I would personally rather have the latter, but you may genuinely prefer the former, and I'll respect your opinion if you do.

I admit Tatum has not played that way as much lately (except for today because he realized that he really can't shoot threes right now), but he has the potential to at least do that every night. McRae has the potential to be better, but I think that his actual play on the road would be worse than people are expecting. Not everyone - not even talented players - can play minutes as a freshman. Some guys simply aren't ready yet, and from McRae's minutes early in the year, I would say he's one of those talented freshman who isn't quite ready to play.

Also, people need to stop bashing Steven Pearl's playing time. He's been winning us some games because people refuse to play defense on him. Yes, that's a really sad statement on our (and his) offense, but he's legitimately playing well right now.
 
#45
#45
Would you rather have a player who scores 10 points and has 5 turnovers and gives up 10 points on defense, or one who scores 5, has 5 assists, plays adequate defense, and gets a few rebounds or steals? I would personally rather have the latter, but you may genuinely prefer the former, and I'll respect your opinion if you do.

I admit Tatum has not played that way as much lately (except for today because he realized that he really can't shoot threes right now), but he has the potential to at least do that every night. McRae has the potential to be better, but I think that his actual play on the road would be worse than people are expecting. Not everyone - not even talented players - can play minutes as a freshman. Some guys simply aren't ready yet, and from McRae's minutes early in the year, I would say he's one of those talented freshman who isn't quite ready to play.

Also, people need to stop bashing Steven Pearl's playing time. He's been winning us some games because people refuse to play defense on him. Yes, that's a really sad statement on our (and his) offense, but he's legitimately playing well right now.

Unfortunately, your straw man in the first example doesn't exist. McRae has never played enough for us to know what he can do. The only game he played more than 10 minutes, he shot poorly but had only 2 turnovers in 19 minutes (so this 5 turnover guy you've created isn't realistic). I've got nothing against Cam, and am much more in favor of kicking him in the butt than benching him, but he's only had 5 assists twice in his career (so, again unrealistic).

We simply have no idea what McRae would have done by now with consistent playing time. What little I've seen of him looked like there was plenty of potential.

addendum: Oh, and about Steven. No.
 
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#46
#46
the fact the junior gets ANY FRICKIN MINUTES AT ALL while FOUR 4 star guys sit the bench can only mean our staff:

1. can't evaluate talent and recruits the 4 stars guys who are actually 2 star or worse.

2. can't develop real talent. doesn't know how to put them in a position to succeed and build confidence... teaching them what is expected at their position... and nurturing but also correcting them so they get it right and earn the PT their talent warrants.

3. just sucks all around.

most physical practice of the season in february... dumb.

2's schooled the 1's, the coach reveals it on the radio, then nothing really changes... dumb.

unfortunately, junior had a non-embarrassing, i'll even say "good" game against USCjr. unfortunately, this will lead to him getting the same amount of minutes he got the last time we played UK.
 
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#47
#47
the fact the junior gets ANY FRICKIN MINUTES AT ALL while FOUR 4 star guys sit the bench can only mean our staff:

1. can't evaluate talent and recruits the 4 stars guys who are actually 2 star or worse.

2. can't develop real talent. doesn't know how to put them in a position to succeed and build confidence... teaching them what is expected at their position... and nurturing but also correcting them so they get it right and earn the PT their talent warrants.

3. just sucks all around.

most physical practice of the season in february... dumb.

2's schooled the 1's, the coach reveals it on the radio, then nothing really changes... dumb.

unfortunately, junior had a non-embarrassing, i'll even say "good" game against USCjr. unfortunately, this will lead to him getting the same amount of minutes he got the last time we played UK.

Pathetic, whiny post.
 
#48
#48
Unfortunately, your straw man in the first example doesn't exist. McRae has never played enough for us to know what he can do. The only game he played more than 10 minutes, he shot poorly but had only 2 turnovers in 19 minutes (so this 5 turnover guy you've created isn't realistic). I've got nothing against Cam, and am much more in favor of kicking him in the butt than benching him, but he's only had 5 assists twice in his career (so, again unrealistic).

We simply have no idea what McRae would have done by now with consistent playing time. What little I've seen of him looked like there was plenty of potential.

addendum: Oh, and about Steven. No.
I'll admit the guy who existed in the first post is a strawman (especially because I neglected to look up the statistics), but Tatum legitimately has the potential to be the second guy if he abandons threes like he did today (he had 7 points, 4 assists, and 4 rebounds, which is why I mentioned those numbers. If he had played the entire game like the last few minutes, he would have had a great game).

I just didn't think that McRae was ready during the playing time he was given, and he hasn't been given any playing time since, so I somewhat have to stick by my earlier thoughts there even if the idea that he will commit turnovers more than Tatum is unfounded. I agree with you that he has potential and is talented, and I'd like to see him play in a prominent role next year when he has a better understanding of the game (regardless of where he is now, he should be more aware next year).

and about Pearl: Yes. He's been getting like 4 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 steals, and 1.3 assists in the last three games, as well as drawing fouls on some unimportant players (after he makes bad decisions). I don't think we win against Vanderbilt without playing him. I'd say he's effective in 10-15 minutes. At the very least, he's better than our options at the 5 (aside from Williams).
 
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#49
#49
I'll admit the guy who existed in the first post is a strawman (especially because I neglected to look up the statistics), but Tatum legitimately has the potential to be the second guy if he abandons threes like he did today (he had 7 points, 4 assists, and 4 rebounds, which is why I mentioned those numbers. If he had played the entire game like the last few minutes, he would have had a great game).

I just didn't think that McRae was ready during the playing time he was given, and he hasn't been given any playing time since, so I somewhat have to stick by my earlier thoughts there even if the idea that he will commit turnovers more than Tatum is unfounded. I agree with you that he has potential and is talented, and I'd like to see him play in a prominent role next year when he has a better understanding of the game (regardless of where he is now, he should be more aware next year).

and about Pearl: Yes. He's been getting like 4 points, 4 rebounds, 1.6 steals, and 1.3 assists in the last three games, as well as drawing fouls on some unimportant players (after he makes bad decisions). I don't think we win against Vanderbilt without playing him. I'd say he's effective in 10-15 minutes. At the very least, he's better than our options at the 5 (aside from Williams).

More like 3.3 rebounds for Pearl (and 0 in 8 minutes the game before that). I would never call him "effective", but I'll agree that he's maxed out his production the last few games. The point I would come back to is, however, that if Kenny Hall, Woolridge or Maymon were getting those minutes all year, with the kind of encouragement Steven has received all year, they would be maxing out as well by now and the productivity would be twice what Steven brings. (Purely speculative, of course, but I'm convinced this is true.) Yes, the coach does have to coach Kenny out of committing bad fouls and Woolridge and Maymon out of taking bad shots, but it can only come about with playing time.

All of those guys (and McRae) play a couple of minutes, make a mistake and get yanked from the game. But, as John Wooden said: "If you're not making mistakes, then you're not doing anything. I'm positive that a doer makes mistakes." If those guys really are outplaying the starters in practice, then one of them should have been getting Stevie's minutes all year. Investment early on usually turns into production later.

Bruce has simply treated those guys differently from Steven. He's been singing Steven's praises for a year and a half now, even after games in which Steven had no production and made a couple of the bone-headedest plays I've ever seen a major college player make.

I'll go a step further. Any one of those guys could have been told: "Look, we want you to do what Steven does...don't take any shot that's not a layup; when you get the ball, get rid of it quickly, defend hard (in fact, go ahead and shove your man 25 feet from the basket), check out and rebound." ANY of those guys would be better defenders for not having to think about offense, and ANY of them would average more than twice the rebounds (and probably more like three times the rebounds) as Pearl does.
You can milk great things from talented players. That's what a great coach does.

Anyhow, I don't really disagree about McRae, except to say that we don't really have any evidence one way or the other. No, he didn't dazzle in the very few minutes he's played, but 2 minutes here and there doesn't tell us yay or nay about it. He did lay bricks in the Belmont game (1 of 7 in 19 minutes), but he also had 4 rebounds and 3 blocks.
 
#50
#50
Don't see how he could play worse than Tatum has the past several games. I agree that experience would likely allow him to improve and play better.
 

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