Stanford’s Bryce Love

#26
#26
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
He's a good player. He's just not in the same universe as Saquon Barkley. Hell he ain't even as good as Ronald Jones II who is a similar RB in the west coast.

Bryce Love = run of the mill great college player
Saquon Barkley = once in a lifetime talent
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I know I'm going to be sorry that i asked, but if one can't use stats to grade a player in terms who which is the better at the sport, what metric is to be used?
 
#27
#27
BeardedVol said:
I know I'm going to be sorry that i asked, but if one can't use stats to grade a player in terms who which is the better at the sport, what metric is to be used?
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Eye test.

I simply watch as many games as I can. I try to see as many players play. Its actually pretty easy to tell the great players from the average. They jump off the screen.

For example, against Iowa, Saquon Barkley not only compiled impressive stats but he made cuts on the fields as a RB that were remarkable. Cuts I have never seen. Cuts that I thought would result in him tearing ligaments in his ankles because of how violent and explosive they were. He also showed an ability to change speeds and burst after his initial cuts that are simply breathtaking. You can't watch Saquon Barkley play and not be amazed because he does things no one else does or even comes close to doing. He makes his big plays happen. Its not typically because he got great blocking.

Now compare that to Bryce Love. He's a nice player but he doesn't have the same rare ability to make people miss and change speeds like Saquon Barkley. Love is definitely faster in the open field. But other than that, Barkley has him beat when it comes to every other RB attribute. Barkley is bigger, stronger, more elusive, more powerful, and has better change of speed and agility.

The problem with relying on stats is that those can be heavily influenced by the talent around the player, by the coaching staff and scheme, as well as the opponents you play and how they play you. This is why I'll always value the eye test over stats. I trust what I see when I watch the games because of my knowledge of football way more than I do what the box score says after the game.
 
#29
#29
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Eye test.

I simply watch as many games as I can. I try to see as many players play. Its actually pretty easy to tell the great players from the average. They jump off the screen.

For example, against Iowa, Saquon Barkley not only compiled impressive stats but he made cuts on the fields as a RB that were remarkable. Cuts I have never seen. Cuts that I thought would result in him tearing ligaments in his ankles because of how violent and explosive they were. He also showed an ability to change speeds and burst after his initial cuts that are simply breathtaking. You can't watch Saquon Barkley play and not be amazed because he does things no one else does or even comes close to doing. He makes his big plays happen. Its not typically because he got great blocking.

Now compare that to Bryce Love. He's a nice player but he doesn't have the same rare ability to make people miss and change speeds like Saquon Barkley. Love is definitely faster in the open field. But other than that, Barkley has him beat when it comes to every other RB attribute. Barkley is bigger, stronger, more elusive, more powerful, and has better change of speed and agility.

The problem with relying on stats is that those can be heavily influenced by the talent around the player, by the coaching staff and scheme, as well as the opponents you play and how they play you. This is why I'll always value the eye test over stats. I trust what I see when I watch the games because of my knowledge of football way more than I do what the box score says after the game.
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And if none of those amazing cuts or speed changes translate to anything statistically measurable, then how is your fabled eye test of any worth? If a running back looks really good when he runs with juke and cuts , but only averages 4.6 ypc, is he better than a running back who averages 10, but just powers straight ahead into the secondary?
 
#30
#30
BeardedVol said:
And if none of those amazing cuts or speed changes translate to anything statistically measurable, then how is your fabled eye test of any worth? If a running back looks really good when he runs with juke and cuts , but only averages 4.6 ypc, is he better than a running back who averages 10, but just powers straight ahead into the secondary?
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Yes because football is a team sport. Contrary to what you might think, but individual statistical production is just as much a product of the players and coaches around you and the opponents you play than it is your own individual talent. When I say Saquon Barkley is better than Bryce Love, I'm saying that if you put Saquon in Bryce's position he would have better numbers.

That is why I always favor the eye test over numbers. Eye test is me gauging individual talent. Stats are more of a team accomplishment than something individual.

Saquon Barkley making guys miss in the backfield to gain 10 yards is more impressive than Bryce Love taking a run 90 yards to the house cause he got perfect blocking and just had to outrun a safety who took a bad angle. Stuff like that isn't seen by just looking at stats. You have to watch the games to see that stuff.
 
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#31
#31
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Yes because football is a team sport. Contrary to what you might think, but individual statistical production is just as much a product of the players and coaches around you and the opponents you play than it is your own individual talent. When I say Saquon Barkley is better than Bryce Love, I'm saying that if you put Saquon in Bryce's position he would have better numbers.

That is why I always favor the eye test over numbers. Eye test is me gauging individual talent. Stats are more of a team accomplishment than something individual.

Saquon Barkley making guys miss in the backfield to gain 10 yards is more impressive than Bryce Love taking a run 90 yards to the house cause he got perfect blocking and just had to outrun a safety who took a bad angle. Stuff like that isn't seen by just looking at stats. You have to watch the games to see that stuff.
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Wait, so you're now saying that the numbers Dobbs put up was because of the coaching from Butch.
 
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#32
#32
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Eye test.

I simply watch as many games as I can. I try to see as many players play. Its actually pretty easy to tell the great players from the average. They jump off the screen.

For example, against Iowa, Saquon Barkley not only compiled impressive stats but he made cuts on the fields as a RB that were remarkable. Cuts I have never seen. Cuts that I thought would result in him tearing ligaments in his ankles because of how violent and explosive they were. He also showed an ability to change speeds and burst after his initial cuts that are simply breathtaking. You can't watch Saquon Barkley play and not be amazed because he does things no one else does or even comes close to doing. He makes his big plays happen. Its not typically because he got great blocking.

Now compare that to Bryce Love. He's a nice player but he doesn't have the same rare ability to make people miss and change speeds like Saquon Barkley. Love is definitely faster in the open field. But other than that, Barkley has him beat when it comes to every other RB attribute. Barkley is bigger, stronger, more elusive, more powerful, and has better change of speed and agility.

The problem with relying on stats is that those can be heavily influenced by the talent around the player, by the coaching staff and scheme, as well as the opponents you play and how they play you. This is why I'll always value the eye test over stats. I trust what I see when I watch the games because of my knowledge of football way more than I do what the box score says after the game.
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Pretty certain all factors are considered by PFF when they review coach's film and evaluate players and they have Love rated as the most effective RB where he [Love] leads the nation in both forced missed tackles and yards after contact. These stats have nothing to do with quality of OLine but how difficult a RB is to tackle.

Who's CFB's best RB? Top tier remains the same after Week 6

Eye test may say a player is fast but actually obtaining objective data via GPS makes the eye test null & void.

I really don't care about impressive cuts...more concerned with impressive production.
 
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#33
#33
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
He's a good player. He's just not in the same universe as Saquon Barkley. Hell he ain't even as good as Ronald Jones II who is a similar RB in the west coast.

Bryce Love = run of the mill great college player
Saquon Barkley = once in a lifetime talent
Click to expand...

You keep talking about talent but I'm talking about results. Love is doing better against better competition. Twice the rushing yards on only 16 more carries. If you're even right about the talent disparity, my response is talent only takes you so far.
 
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#34
#34
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
LOL. No. Bryce Love is a nice lil RB but not in the same universe as Saquon Barkley.

Barkley is bigger, stronger, better at breaking tackles, and creating his own running lanes. Bryce Love is just a speed back who can break away when he has big holes.

They are not anywhere close to one another in terms of talent. Not even close.
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You should really contact PFF to apprise them that your eye test doesn't correlate with their film review in terms of "forced" missed tackles as they have the following at the end of Week 6:

Bryce Love: 217.1
Saquon Barkley: 77.7


Twitter

Twitter

I see a lot of yards after contact and in terms of power and elusiveness in these runs.

https://youtu.be/_cFF96pSi1w
 
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#36
#36
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Yes because football is a team sport. Contrary to what you might think, but individual statistical production is just as much a product of the players and coaches around you and the opponents you play than it is your own individual talent. When I say Saquon Barkley is better than Bryce Love, I'm saying that if you put Saquon in Bryce's position he would have better numbers.

That is why I always favor the eye test over numbers. Eye test is me gauging individual talent. Stats are more of a team accomplishment than something individual.

Saquon Barkley making guys miss in the backfield to gain 10 yards is more impressive than Bryce Love taking a run 90 yards to the house cause he got perfect blocking and just had to outrun a safety who took a bad angle. Stuff like that isn't seen by just looking at stats. You have to watch the games to see that stuff.
Click to expand...

And that is why your predictions are wrong more than they are correct to the tune of a 250/1 ratio.
 
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#39
#39
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Eye test.

I simply watch as many games as I can. I try to see as many players play. Its actually pretty easy to tell the great players from the average. They jump off the screen.

For example, against Iowa, Saquon Barkley not only compiled impressive stats but he made cuts on the fields as a RB that were remarkable. Cuts I have never seen. Cuts that I thought would result in him tearing ligaments in his ankles because of how violent and explosive they were. He also showed an ability to change speeds and burst after his initial cuts that are simply breathtaking. You can't watch Saquon Barkley play and not be amazed because he does things no one else does or even comes close to doing. He makes his big plays happen. Its not typically because he got great blocking.

Now compare that to Bryce Love. He's a nice player but he doesn't have the same rare ability to make people miss and change speeds like Saquon Barkley. Love is definitely faster in the open field. But other than that, Barkley has him beat when it comes to every other RB attribute. Barkley is bigger, stronger, more elusive, more powerful, and has better change of speed and agility.

The problem with relying on stats is that those can be heavily influenced by the talent around the player, by the coaching staff and scheme, as well as the opponents you play and how they play you. This is why I'll always value the eye test over stats. I trust what I see when I watch the games because of my knowledge of football way more than I do what the box score says after the game.
Click to expand...

How do you live? I mean what do you do to make $? If you’re watching film all the time, what the hell else do you do?
 
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#40
#40
RDU VOL#14 said:
How do you live?
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His mom makes him keep the cork on his fork to avoid injury.

tumblr_ok6216yL8l1rzbj5mo1_500.gif
 
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#41
#41
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
He's a good player. He's just not in the same universe as Saquon Barkley. Hell he ain't even as good as Ronald Jones II who is a similar RB in the west coast.

Bryce Love = run of the mill great college player
Saquon Barkley = once in a lifetime talent
Click to expand...

You predicting Tennessee beats Bama this week??? It seems like your type of logic
 
#42
#42
Love
1,406 yards from scrimmage
10.1 yards per touch
11 TD's
Opponents: USC, Utah, SDSU, ASU, Oregon, UCLA, Rice

Barkley
1,044 yards from scrimmage
8.0 yards per touch
9 TD's
Opponents: Iowa, Northwestern, Pitt, Indiana, Akron, Georgia St
 
#43
#43
n_huffhines said:
Love
1,406 yards from scrimmage
10.1 yards per touch
11 TD's
Opponents: USC, Utah, SDSU, ASU, Oregon, UCLA, Rice

Barkley
1,044 yards from scrimmage
8.0 yards per touch
9 TD's
Opponents: Iowa, Northwestern, Pitt, Indiana, Akron, Georgia St
Click to expand...
Eye test.
 
#44
#44
I agree that Barkley is probably the better NFL prospect because of the receiving threat, but clearly one is outplaying the other. Stats aren't everything, but when somebody has significantly better stats against better competition (and the other guy is on a better team), there is nothing really to debate.
 
#45
#45
n_huffhines said:
I agree that Barkley is probably the better NFL prospect because of the receiving threat, but clearly one is outplaying the other. Stats aren't everything, but when somebody has significantly better stats against better competition (and the other guy is on a better team), there is nothing really to debate.
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So is it a question of Love not being capable as a receiver or is he just not being used that way? Fournette already has almost as many NFL receptions this season (15) as he had in any season at LSU. (19)
 
#47
#47
This kid is a beast

Very impressive the way Stanford always has one of the best backs in the country year in year out
 
#48
#48
In watching Love, the player I am most reminded of is LaMichael James, who was another “pocket battleship” that was a threat to take it the distance on virtually every play.
 
#49
#49
n_huffhines said:
I agree that Barkley is probably the better NFL prospect because of the receiving threat, but clearly one is outplaying the other. Stats aren't everything, but when somebody has significantly better stats against better competition (and the other guy is on a better team), there is nothing really to debate.
Click to expand...

Its funny that people even feel they are comprable. Bryce Love is a lil scat back with elite speed. Dime a dozen type of player.

Saquon Barkley is 5'11" 225 lbs and runs like Barry Sanders at that size. He's once in a lifetime.

Bryce Love could run for 3000 yards and he wouldn't compare to Saquon Barkley.
 
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