"Star ratings" Whats the big deal?

[TVTT]

I get amused at many of the people who post on this/other boards in their hang-up over how many "stars" a hs kid has assigned to him/her. Go back over the years and you'll find more kids who performed better in college that didn't have hig "star ratings" than did high "star" kids. Many of these kids who are highly rated by these so-called recruiting gurus turn out to be big headed spoiled brags who can't cut it or they simply can't take the pressure of living up to their rankings. Give me the hard working all for the team kid - who may not have the "high star rating" any day over these "self only - highly rated" kids.

 

[Low Country Vol]

We have seen especially the 2002 class that stars hold no water. We need scouts who has a good judgement on talent rather than some "guru" who writes in his yearly magazine for a few bucks.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

You also have to factor in talent development. Some schools do more with less. IMHO the present administration has been doing less with more for years, essentially coasting since '98. Give Spurrier a #2 nationally ranked recruiting class sandwiched between a couple of other highly ranked classes and he'll probably win the SEC and get you in a BCS game in a couple of years. Give those same players to a staff that does not stress discipline or conditioning, and that uses an outdated, predictable scheme and ...well...you know the rest.

Seriously though, the star ratings are not the end all be all I agree but it is a useful, at least somewhat objective tool that can be used help weigh one prospect agasint another.

 

[hatvol96]

Go back over the years and you'll find more kids who performed better in college that didn't have hig "star ratings" than did high "star" kids.

Not really. The vast majority of true impact players were highly touted coming out of high school. Everyone knew about Adrian Peterson, Ted Ginn, Brady Quinn, etc. I wish UT would give everybody who rambles on about "team first, proud to be a Volunteer" players their wish. Just recruit a bunch of kids from the KIL. They'll come out every Saturday all fired up for the glory of ole' UT. They would get beat 55-0 every Saturday, but all the people who want to recruit hungry overachievers would be happy.

 

[hatvol96]

We have seen especially the 2002 class that stars hold no water. We need scouts who has a good judgement on talent rather than some "guru" who writes in his yearly magazine for a few bucks.

Really, go back and look at the top 10 classes that year. See how many of them went 5-6 last year. Great talent generally gets great results, unless it isn't properly developed and utilized.

 

[patrick]

I get amused at many of the people who post on this/other boards in their hang-up over how many "stars" a hs kid has assigned to him/her. Go back over the years and you'll find more kids who performed better in college that didn't have hig "star ratings" than did high "star" kids. Many of these kids who are highly rated by these so-called recruiting gurus turn out to be big headed spoiled brags who can't cut it or they simply can't take the pressure of living up to their rankings. Give me the hard working all for the team kid - who may not have the "high star rating" any day over these "self only - highly rated" kids.

so you would rather have a signing class ranked #30 than ranked say #5????

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

2002 Rivals team recruiting Top 10 and how they finished last season.

1 Texas 13-0, Big 12 champions AP#1, USA#1
2 Tennessee 5-6
3 Georgia 10-3, SEC champions, AP#10, USA#10
4 Florida State 8-5, ACC champions, AP#23, USA#23
5 Ohio State 10-2, Big 10 champions, AP#4, USA#4
6 Auburn 9-3, SEC West co-champion, AP#14, USA#14
7 Oklahoma 8-4, AP#22, USA#22
8 Miami-FL 9-3, AP#17, USA#18
9 UCLA 10-2, AP#16, USA#13
10 Colorado 7-5, Big-12 North champions

 

[Jaytrain5]

We have seen especially the 2002 class that stars hold no water. We need scouts who has a good judgement on talent rather than some "guru" who writes in his yearly magazine for a few bucks.

Rivals #1 rated recruiting class back in '02 was Texas. That #1 recruiting class just produced a Big 12 championship and a national title. I'd say the stars hold water.

 

[hatvol96]

2002 Rivals team recruiting Top 10 and how they finished last season.

1 Texas 13-0, Big 12 champions AP#1, USA#1
2 Tennessee 5-6
3 Georgia 10-3, SEC champions, AP#10, USA#10
4 Florida State 8-5, ACC champions, AP#23, USA#23
5 Ohio State 10-2, Big 10 champions, AP#4, USA#4
6 Auburn 9-3, SEC West co-champion, AP#14, USA#14
7 Oklahoma 8-4, AP#22, USA#22
8 Miami-FL 9-3, AP#17, USA#18
9 UCLA 10-2, AP#16, USA#13
10 Colorado 7-5, Big-12 North champions

Interesting. 4 of the Top 5 won championships in BCS conferences last year. One had a losing record. I'll let that speak for itself.

 

[Lexvol]

The only negative point about star gazing is that it may tend to make coaches lazy, and tempt them quit doing their recruiting homework. The idea of fielding and all homegrown college football team is ridiculous.

 

[Jasongivm6]

Really, go back and look at the top 10 classes that year. See how many of them went 5-6 last year. Great talent generally gets great results, unless it isn't properly developed and utilized.

Recruiting/Coaching Apples/Apples

 

[Ohio Vol]

The dirty little secret is that quite a few of these recruiting "experts" have ulterior motives. The most obvious is Tom Lemming, who is nothing more than a Notre Dame hack. Guys who are considering ND gets their overall ratings boosted substantially, and those who rule out ND get knocked down a decent amount.

But don't forget who the top two QBs were back in 1994....Peyton Manning and Branndon Stewart. Which one became a college legend and a probable NFL Hall of Famer, and which one currently has "whereabouts unknown"?

 

[General Jack]

The dirty little secret is that quite a few of these recruiting "experts" have ulterior motives. The most obvious is Tom Lemming, who is nothing more than a Notre Dame hack. Guys who are considering ND gets their overall ratings boosted substantially, and those who rule out ND get knocked down a decent amount.

But don't forget who the top two QBs were back in 1994....Peyton Manning and Branndon Stewart. Which one became a college legend and a probable NFL Hall of Famer, and which one currently has "whereabouts unknown"?

Actually, he's working for a software company here in Austin, TX.

Which basically proves your point.

 

[patrick]

Interesting. 4 of the Top 5 won championships in BCS conferences last year. One had a losing record. I'll let that speak for itself.

no reply from the topic starter!!!!! it is hard to argue with those stats hat

 

[volbreaker]

You also have to factor in talent development. Some schools do more with less. IMHO the present administration has been doing less with more for years, essentially coasting since '98. Give Spurrier a #2 nationally ranked recruiting class sandwiched between a couple of other highly ranked classes and he'll probably win the SEC and get you in a BCS game in a couple of years. Give those same players to a staff that does not stress discipline or conditioning, and that uses an outdated, predictable scheme and ...well...you know the rest.

Seriously though, the star ratings are not the end all be all I agree but it is a useful, at least somewhat objective tool that can be used help weigh one prospect agasint another.

Agree on the talent development part. Also, I think it does a great service in putting all of the major prospects out there for us to see. However, I'm just not convinced that they are that acurate in their ranking or star systems. But, as you said, development probably plays a huge role.
An example of being "out of touch" is BJ Coleman being listed as 6'4" and 180lbs. 35lbs probably will make a big diff when they get up to date.

 

[Jasongivm6]

The dirty little secret is that quite a few of these recruiting "experts" have ulterior motives. The most obvious is Tom Lemming, who is nothing more than a Notre Dame hack. Guys who are considering ND gets their overall ratings boosted substantially, and those who rule out ND get knocked down a decent amount.

But don't forget who the top two QBs were back in 1994....Peyton Manning and Branndon Stewart. Which one became a college legend and a probable NFL Hall of Famer, and which one currently has "whereabouts unknown"?

I thought Brandon Stewart and Peyton Manning were pretty "even" during their freshman year. They both made plays on the field.

 

[utvolpj]

I thought Brandon Stewart and Peyton Manning were pretty "even" during their freshman year. They both made plays on the field.

I hate to say it but I was in the Stewart camp in the beginning. Turned out I was wrong, oh well.

 

[LetMeStay]

I dont want a bunch of 1-2 star homegrown talents on the team. It's nice to have a few sprinkled here and there but when other competition is getting top star talent, why should be be satisfied with "good ol boys"? We're trying to win! There are gonna be big headed recruits and ones that dont achieve their star ratings but dont let a few a those spoil the whole bunch.

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

David Climer of the Nashville Tennessean said it best "Certainly, the events of last season served as a wake-up call. Fulmer thought he had assembled the kind of talent that would get the Vols into the national championship hunt. But UT was overrated and under-coached." I think that is what you need to look at when you are recruiting a athlete, how much coaching will I need to do with this person. In the past we have had many good athletes go under-coached. IMO if this trend continues I can't see UT in the top ten for sometime.

 

[LetMeStay]

We still have some assistants who need to go. Cutcliffe was a good start but we need to bring in more people who can coach players up and make the best of each recruit.

 

[smokeyman15]

i think they do show something, but there are exceptions both for the good and bad

 

[therickbol]

I dont want a bunch of 1-2 star homegrown talents on the team. It's nice to have a few sprinkled here and there but when other competition is getting top star talent, why should be be satisfied with "good ol boys"? We're trying to win! There are gonna be big headed recruits and ones that dont achieve their star ratings but dont let a few a those spoil the whole bunch.

Well, obviously if these are players that cant cut it then we dont want them on the team just because they are from Tennessee. BUT, the point most people are missing is that these kids are better than you guys think. Fulmer has said that this crop of high school seniors in the state are the best group since he has been at UTK. That is saying something. So the situtation is that the UTK staff has seen the players in their own state A LOT more than the recruiting service gurus and therefore know that some of these kids that are not "ranked by rivals" are better than the service think because they havent had enough exposure. Ok, you want to take stabs at Fulmer's coaching abilities. Sure, go ahead. But, do you really want to say he doesn't have an eye to recognize talent? Do you know how many top recruiting classes we have had (dont mention development, we are just talking talent)? So, lets give the staff a little credit for being able to recognize that these players in the state have more talent than they are being given credit for right now.

 

[utvolpj]

Well, obviously if these are players that cant cut it then we dont want them on the team just because they are from Tennessee. BUT, the point most people are missing is that these kids are better than you guys think. Fulmer has said that this crop of high school seniors in the state are the best group since he has been at UTK. That is saying something. So the situtation is that the UTK staff has seen the players in their own state A LOT more than the recruiting service gurus and therefore know that some of these kids that are not "ranked by rivals" are better than the service think because they havent had enough exposure. Ok, you want to take stabs at Fulmer's coaching abilities. Sure, go ahead. But, do you really want to say he doesn't have an eye to recognize talent? Do you know how many top recruiting classes we have had (dont mention development, we are just talking talent)? So, lets give the staff a little credit for being able to recognize that these players in the state have more talent than they are being given credit for right now.

Also, since TN hasn't been a hotbed in the past few years, there may be fewer people looking and evaluating talent in the state. That eval. will eventually come but I'll rely on the coaches. If Cut says he's a good QB then that's good enough for me. He's seen and coached some of the best.

 

[Ohio Vol]

The star ratings are still worthless. I was reading how a group of UT coaches was shown some tape of high schoolers after the '99 season and someone slipped in an old one from '95 and askedthe rest to focus on one specific player to see if he would be worthwhile as a Vol. Every man said no...the player was Billy Ratliff.

I know I mentioned this on another thread, but there seems to be confusion over whether the primary goal of the program is to turn out NFL players or to win college games. And how many people would be willing to forsake putting guys into the NFL with the tradeoff being tremendous success in the SEC and on the national level? After all, look how long Nebraska won and look what became of their quarterbacks at the next level...every one either switched positions or flopped (if they even made it that far).

 

[hatvol96]

The star ratings are still worthless. I was reading how a group of UT coaches was shown some tape of high schoolers after the '99 season and someone slipped in an old one from '95 and askedthe rest to focus on one specific player to see if he would be worthwhile as a Vol. Every man said no...the player was Billy Ratliff.

I know I mentioned this on another thread, but there seems to be confusion over whether the primary goal of the program is to turn out NFL players or to win college games. And how many people would be willing to forsake putting guys into the NFL with the tradeoff being tremendous success in the SEC and on the national level? After all, look how long Nebraska won and look what became of their quarterbacks at the next level...every one either switched positions or flopped (if they even made it that far).

How many Nebraska linemen, running backs and defensive players made it into the NFL? Quarterback is one position.